Let's talk non-objective

[evaldart]

Tequila is not unlike non-objective art. While the color may appear to most of us folks to be just some waifish iced tea, agreeable and surmisably definable, wait til you get a jolt. It'll change your damned mind about everything...and you'll be seeing amber fluids with new eyes forevermore. You'll either use this new knowledge to steer clear of it...or you;ll go for the Amatitan Herradura; and reap the benefits.

[craigktx]

iam with jo,say it or deal with it.
no tequila for me just beer.
i felt like a non object after drinking that juice.

[StevenW]

Originally Posted by jOe~

(and before more people get insulted, don't tell me all colleges and universities provide equivalent experiences--.

No argument from me there.. I was watchin the secratary of state "giggles" talkin about pirates today thinking to myself yup.. The pitiful screams of all those college educated women..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRvR...eature=related


Well the hippy shit didn't help..

"Lookin for some rustic co-ed rump
That he just might wanna pump".. do do do..

[cheesepaws]

Originally Posted by craigktx

iam with jo,say it or deal with it.

What a maverick thing to declare after seeking out and joining a community. Do you really think that this community – like most - doesn’t have a(n implied) code of conduct*? I think it is pretty easy to say what you feel to someone with the simple consideration of composing oneself in a manner similar to how you would interact with that person “on the outside.” To do any less is just lazy or rude without cause.

I guess I shouldn’t be surprised by the pre-school playground attitude with all the Dr. Seuss being read.


*still waiting on an "official" code

[grommet]

Originally Posted by jOe~

Actually it does as everything I wrote was very carefully worded to get my points across and express who I really am. I meant it all. Honestly. So, that does make me a dick(in your book). No false apologies ("Sorry my boring post is causing you petulance. ") here.

Hardly. I'm not repressed.

Isn't that what we all do? But I guess my expectations were too high of college educated adults. For that I do honestly apologize. There are a lot of crappy colleges out there(and before more people get insulted, don't tell me all colleges and universities provide equivalent experiences--Glenn will vouch for that).

... nah, pointless.
So where is your freedom taking you joe?

[jOe~]

*still waiting on an "official" code

Huh? Make that a double "huh?" Or even a "WTF?"

[StevenW]

What's a non-objective Easter look like? I gotta make a card and need some symbolic stuff without the bunny rabbits and eggs..

[jOe~]

So where is your freedom taking you joe?

It's my path through life. I find the truth(you could say my truth) liberating, exhilarating. Thank you Thoreau and all the other individualists that have guided and inspired me since childhood.

[jOe~]

What's a non-objective Easter look like?

The chocolate truffles I always gorge on as they are masticated and journey down my esophagus. That is what it looks like. Visual art fails here. Taste trumps.

[grommet]

I see, so you're not actually DOING anything, your mere existence is sufficient to carry you from moment to moment. It's a freedom to do nothing as opposed to anything.
My point is you can choose how you react to things based on what your goals are and how each situation serves that goal. If you have no goals, you're at the mercy of the wind or your limited planning from one moment to the next.
If your only accomplishment is preening, I think that's a monumental waste of food and shelter. and truffles.

Easter is supposed to be new life; the rebirth of spring after dormant, house getting gamey winter.

[evaldart]

Me and the kids will be doing ab-ex eggs. Pollock, Rothko, Newman, Gorky...the process lends itself to that style. REAL boiled eggs, with REAL yolks and REAL protien inside; for EATING - all turned into visual treats by OUR own REAL hands. As it should be.

Hirst and Koons eggs cant help you, no matter how shiny...sorry.

[jOe~]

I see, so you're not actually DOING anything,

You see nothing. I did not survive and thrive for 58 years by doing nothing.

If you have no goals, you're at the mercy of the wind or your limited planning from one moment to the next.
If your only accomplishment is preening, I think that's a monumental waste of food and shelter.

Were we talking about goals? Pathetic attack Grommet.

[GlennT]

Happy Easter!

translation for the non-objective contingent:

<<-^^^ ~`~`~///__-

[Duck]

חג פסחא שמח

[rusted_art]

freedom is lost if i object to something. if i am non objectional i walk through the chaos of self will unfettered. the moment i lose my nonobjective stance i am stuck to what ever has triggered my judgementality. And there aint no freedom till i open my mind again and release myself from my judgemental thinking, or attitude. But what the hell would i know.

[GlennT]

Originally Posted by rusted_art

freedom is lost if i object to something. if i am non objectional i walk through the chaos of self will unfettered. the moment i lose my nonobjective stance i am stuck to what ever has triggered my judgementality. And there aint no freedom till i open my mind again and release myself from my judgemental thinking, or attitude. But what the hell would i know.

Sounds like easy pickin's for the next despot or tyrannt who comes along.

[evaldart]

The relationship between the arrival of the artifact and the activity/experience/event is best grasped when efforts towards the referencing of the recognizable have been done-away with.

Its possible that being a slave to the product or the result or the "end" is not the most yielding creative experience. True spontanaiety and true improvisation are much more difficult to come by than any rendering that adds up by the mere accumulation of skills and knowledge. Skill and knowledge are just the same regular stuff that thriving and surviving people chase after all the time...no matter how they while-away the days.

A yielding relationship with your chosen solid matter is one that doesnt set goals or make dreamy prediction. Something challenging occurs between you and the matter, there is an object left over (evidence of the ordeal), YOU, the possessor of the perception takes away goods because the matter is unaware.

The other humans might call it abstract or non-objective; or they;ll see something in it that isnt there...no worries, you're better off - and they might be too...if they imagined themselves in your lucky shoes for a moment.

[grommet]

intent and outcome are certainly different, but once you've made the move and are expending energy, you now have a goal of sorts-- even if it is only passive by the influence of gravity.
If you have thousands of these "events", would you like them to add up to anything in particular? That is a goal.

With confidence and faith, you fling yourself forward at the mass of as yet to be art. Your mind is clear and empty, but your history and faith and motion shroud the unspoken goal. The thrill of the discovery at the end keeps you from asking its name, which was there almost from the beginning. Just because you didn't name it, it doesn't mean it wasn't there. It's just a little dance you do to keep things moving, to stay open to things on the periphery.

Even the decision to be non objective (or non objectional) is a direction or goal.
Like it or not, every move you make propels you somewhere.

[Ries]

I know all youse guys want to do is argue and snipe- but if you want to look at some more actual art that is, to my mind anyway, discussing this whole "non-objective" theme a bit, check out these totally wack carved marble pieces by a couple of german artists who break Matt's rules a lot of ways, including, <<Shudder>>, collaborating.

http://www.thatcherprojects.com/exhi...02.cfm?exh=613

I think this show is up right now in NYC.

mysterious stuff.

[LimeCutter]

Originally Posted by Portoro

Dan - up early?!

Question: when producing your very lovely Kilkenny pieces, have you come to an opinion about that wonderful STINK that exudes from the stone as you carve? What IS that?!

It is a very distinctive smell - a bit like petrol or oil (but not quite). I really thought it was odd the first time a carved it but I have swicthed off to it a bit.

I wonder if other darker limestone also smell?

[StevenW]

It occured to me today that in literature "truth is stranger than fiction" and having read no small amount of classic literature and history myself it would seem so. With abstract and non-objective work in sculpture, there seems to be a more complex relationship between what we would consider a "fiction" and a truth.. Perhaps there can be no fiction in sculpture, no phonies, no parody's or charades.. Once you make it, it becomes its own truth and reality and is therefore,.. all quite strange..I always felt myself somewhat of an abberation, not intentionally nor purposefully and to no better or worse degree than anyone else, but different nonetheless. I can never remember a time when I had a consious maliciousness, but always a fundamental curiosity about everything.

Maybe the thing I appreciate most about sculpture is the idea to me at least that it can never lie, be it representation, abstract, non-objective etc.. It merely demands a small pittance to be successful in my eyes and that is simply a kind of effort..

[evaldart]

Some of those blob shapes are indeed damned nice; in a Linda Benglis kind of fashion. Biomorphic abstraction. What are they made of...carved stone? (I hope). But the ones in the pop packaging are no good (they broke the "rules").

I'll be in NYC soon, maybe I can track this show down.

Thanks Ries.

[Thatch]

I was out of town a few days and missed the start of this thread, read most of the 1st page and decided to jump to the end and post on the original question.

I don't often use the term Non Objective about my sculpture. Most of it is not Figurative. Even the most accurate figurative work is an abstraction of the figure represented. My figurative work represents a figure but is not an accurate abstraction of it. You want to create objects that do not represent any object found in Nature and especially not do a representational piece.

Objective and Subjective are terms often used in Audiospeak when referring to listening to a recording or using a well known recording to evaluate some audio gear. Subjective is used to mean personal and possibly emotional. It is most often used when referring to a recording because music causes an emotional response. Objective is used to mean that you are offering a very impersonal response or that you listened with the objective of analyzing the quality of a recording or the gear used to reproduce it. So subjective is personal and objective is not. Subjective is emotional and objective is not.

Representational and Non-Representational are better terms to use when talking about art. Your typical Abstract Expressionist painting would be Non Representational while De Kooning's paintings were usually of women and while he was often included in with the AEs he was representational in that what he did was in his way Figurative.

If I remember correctly Jean Arp would doodle on a sheet of plywood or a board, cut out the shapes and drop them another board and apply them where they fell. That I would consider as being Non Representational, Non Objective and not Subjective all in one stroke. Even if that story is not true it is a good one.

I had one teacher who beat in the idea of using a source. Often I do, at least as a starting point. I have done a drawing of a woman and from it done a series of drawings that evolve from that form and did a series of sculptures based on those drawings. They didn't look human at all but they were all reclining nudes and representational though the resemblance was vague at best. I wish I could show them but something was wrong with the slurry and all the molds failed during the pour. Of the six waxes invested, burned out, etc I none to show. It is very hard to be Objective about that.

Thatch

[jOe~]

Maybe the thing I appreciate most about sculpture is the idea to me at least that it can never lie, be it representation, abstract, non-objective etc.

I hate to break it to you but those things you thought were toasters or pac men, well......they weren't Santa Claus either.

[craigktx]

Originally Posted by jOe~

I hate to break it to you but those things you thought were toasters or pac men, well......they weren't Santa Claus either.

i cant find your toasters or pack men,why hide them joe?

i get slapped around more than anyone and i can take it.