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  #1  
Old 08-08-2007, 03:48 AM
picturepro picturepro is offline
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Giovanni Schoeman

I have a small round signed piece by G Schoeman but don't know a lot about him or the piece itself. There seems to be a cherub with some text by Albert Camus from his poem Eternal Summer (I think!) The engraving seems to be on an artistic theme music sculpture poetry etc. Can anybody help with this. Thanks
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  #2  
Old 08-08-2007, 06:39 PM
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fritchie fritchie is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Are you able to post one or more photos of the piece? That would help with identity, and we all appreciate the pictures anyway.
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  #3  
Old 08-10-2007, 05:41 AM
DarkMan267 DarkMan267 is offline
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Smile Re: Giovanni Schoeman

We also have some of Giovanni Schoeman Can anyone give us any info on them ? I've done some searchs online an havnt come up with much. (IE Value when they where made an such)
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  #4  
Old 08-10-2007, 07:41 PM
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Thanks for the images, DM. I'd call the work rather precious. I don't mean this in a derogatory way, but I put it more in a decorative than a sculptural category. It seems very well done, somewhat like the small works of Renaissance sculptor Benvenuto Cellini.
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  #5  
Old 08-11-2007, 02:58 AM
DarkMan267 DarkMan267 is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Your welcome I really dont know much about this stuff realy Iam mainly a computer nerd My other half to be owns them She was wondering her grandfather had them when he passed he left them to her.. We have others Do you know anyone that would know anything about his works ?
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  #6  
Old 08-11-2007, 04:09 AM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

I have no luck getting information on the specific pieces. But since I am checking on this artist, I thought I'd show some pictures and information on his fine sculptures. They are here. Also information about him, over here.

If in case you have info on the names of the pieces it'll help.
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  #7  
Old 08-11-2007, 07:45 PM
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Good bit of research on the artist, Merlion. More or less what I concluded, in the basics, but your sources say he used "cold-cast bronze", which is a plastic, in some of his pieces, and also sometimes used several metals in the same piece. These might include bronze in various alloys with different colors, plus silver, for example. Somewhat like Erte.
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  #8  
Old 08-11-2007, 10:30 PM
DarkMan267 DarkMan267 is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Thank you all for the wonderful info. I have a price list I will scan an put up an I wil take photos of all the ones we have I think one of them has a name written on it. His work is great to my eyes at least. Thank you all again.
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  #9  
Old 03-07-2008, 06:06 AM
lwe@xtra.co.nz lwe@xtra.co.nz is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Anyone with more photos of Giovanni Schoeman sculptures?
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  #10  
Old 03-07-2008, 09:35 AM
Tlouis Tlouis is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Cold cast bronze, which I have used, cannot really be called a plastic. In most cases it is 85-88% genuine bronze powder with a resin binder.
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  #11  
Old 03-07-2008, 04:49 PM
Andrew Werby Andrew Werby is offline
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Yes, it can be called a plastic

"Cold-cast bronze" is a marketing term; it doesn't describe something that's made of metal, but a plastic resin (usually polyester) that uses metal as an inert filler. You can fill it with talcum powder just as well; that wouldn't make it soapstone. Just like "cast marble" isn't stone, and "plastic wood" isn't wood; what counts is the material that's holding it all together, not what happens to be used as filler material.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, per se, but the marketeers and promoters of this stuff are deliberately trying to muddy the waters and identify their patently inferior and cheaper product with real cast bronze, which takes a lot more work to produce, and is much more beautiful and durable. Call a spade a spade, and a plastic spoon what it is, even if it's filled with something else.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com
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  #12  
Old 03-07-2008, 05:23 PM
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chris 71 chris 71 is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

you may be right its not a real bronze so to speak. but it is made with real bronze. i am currently having a lot of fun with it and it does look like real metal when its all polished up. because it has real metal in it a lot if you like. your spoiling all the fun for us poor guys
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  #13  
Old 03-07-2008, 07:01 PM
Tlouis Tlouis is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

I too have had my larger pieces cast in hot bronze. here's nothing like it. But don't tell me that something that is 88% bronze powder is purely plastic. That's nonsense.
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  #14  
Old 03-07-2008, 08:56 PM
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fritchie fritchie is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

I'm with Andrew Werby, post 11, in regard to "cold-cast" bronze, and I said as much four posts earlier.

It's simply a marketing term designed originally to confuse the sculpture market. I WAS totally confused when I first saw the term some 15 or so years ago, in very expensive art magazines, and I became outraged as soon as I discovered the fakery, that marketeers would try to pass off patently inferior material as real bronze.

I've used some plastics myself, but I always identified them as plastic, under the technical names (epoxy or whatever). Business-school majors have worked hard to undermine quality throughout our society, and this is just one example. If it's plastic, call it plastic.

As far as these things containing up to 88% bronze powder, that's almost certainly only in a surface layer. If it's throughout the cast, you're wasting your money, because only the surface 1/8 to possibly 1/4 inch ever will be seen.
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  #15  
Old 03-07-2008, 09:30 PM
Tlouis Tlouis is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Consider this: If bonded bronze or cold cast bronze--it isn't called bonded plastic--can be treated with ammonia and vinegar to achieve a blue-green patina similar to that which can be produced on hot cast bronze with the same materials, how then can it be purely plastic. Try getting a blue-green patina on a plastic spoon or fork using ammonia and vinegar. If you can do it, show us the pictures.
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  #16  
Old 03-08-2008, 08:08 PM
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Sure, the ammonia and/or vinegar can penetrate into the plastic a bit to color the bronze or copper dust. That's quite a trick, I expect. Many plastics probably wouldn't allow liquids to penetrate this way, but the dust probably extends to the surface in places and that makes the whole thing a bit spongy on a very tiny scale.

I'm not trying to pick a fight, but just to retain honestly in marketing.
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  #17  
Old 03-08-2008, 09:04 PM
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

hi fritchie no disrespect to you and certainly not meaning to argue. but from what i understand when the resin sculpture is rubbed with steel wool. the resin being softer than the bronze is sort of sanded of and the powered metal left. the small things i am doing with metal powder are solid with no back up material added. they are very heavy and even smell like metal. i think its probably not that the vinegar is soaking through the plastic. its more likely that all the plastic on the outside is sanded away leaving just the metal. i agree with you its still not a real bronze. i've been told that a real bronze has a certain ring to it that the plastic one dosen't. and would break or snap if enough pressure was appiled to it. so it can't be compared to the real deal. and its a shame there are people trying to con people through wording to sell them a lesser material
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  #18  
Old 03-09-2008, 10:16 AM
Tlouis Tlouis is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Nor am I trying to pick a fight. And I am certainly not defending cold cast or bonded bronze as an equal to hot cast. We all know it isn't. I've used both and know the difference in both feel, smell and durability and above all beauty. But what I am saying is that cold cast is not a pure plastic and nothing but. Some years ago I made an edition of 7 cold cast bronze figurines--cast solid--and gave them all the blue-green patina I spoke of above by spraying them with a solution of ammonia and vinegar. Came out beautiful. And solid as a rock! Not a bit spongy. I used steel wool on one to give it a shine but did not like the dull sheen that resulted. Sold all but one which I kept for myself. People loved the dusty color and the heavy weight.
And I have always labeled cold cast/bonded bronze as just that.
I don't think I'll write further on this subject. I'm beginning to feel like a dog chasing his tail.

Last edited by Tlouis : 03-09-2008 at 12:14 PM. Reason: Clarification
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  #19  
Old 03-09-2008, 05:40 PM
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

TLouis, just above: "Nor am I trying to pick a fight. And I am certainly not defending cold cast or bonded bronze as an equal to hot cast."

This is just the promo-speak I'm arguing shouldn't exist. Before plastic casting began, bronze was just bronze. Now it's sometimes called "hot cast bronze" for authentication.

But you're both right, the trend has been around long enough for people who are interested to know the difference. We've had many lengthy conversations here on the effects of linguistic change, both accidental and manipulative, so this could go on foever and still get nowhere. P. T. Barnum always will be with us, but many people using this new material are as honest about it as the two of you and many others.
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  #20  
Old 04-25-2008, 11:40 PM
jumpin_jim jumpin_jim is offline
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Talking Re: Yes, it can be called a plastic

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Werby View Post
"Cold-cast bronze" is a marketing term; it doesn't describe something that's made of metal, but a plastic resin (usually polyester) that uses metal as an inert filler. You can fill it with talcum powder just as well; that wouldn't make it soapstone. Just like "cast marble" isn't stone, and "plastic wood" isn't wood; what counts is the material that's holding it all together, not what happens to be used as filler material.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with it, per se, but the marketeers and promoters of this stuff are deliberately trying to muddy the waters and identify their patently inferior and cheaper product with real cast bronze, which takes a lot more work to produce, and is much more beautiful and durable. Call a spade a spade, and a plastic spoon what it is, even if it's filled with something else.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

With that said, 14K gold is roughly 58% Gold and 42% Copper yet it is still called Gold. Now, that Copper is in the mix to make the Gold more stable (stronger or harder)then 24K Gold, much the same as the Polyester Resin. So, if cold-cast Bronze is 85-88% bronze and 15% clear Polyester Resin, wouldn't it be more logical to call it Bronze then the forementioned 14K Gold.


Jim
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  #21  
Old 04-26-2008, 10:00 PM
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ahirschman ahirschman is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

I always identify my bonded bronze sculptures as such. I am always more than happy to have them cast in bronze if the customer wants to pay the additional money.

Since I do not do my own foundry work it is actually much easier for me to produce a bronze, and much less of me goes into a bronze. When i cast a bonded bronze I take care of all the measurements, and tediously mix batches that are consistent, adding as much bronze as I can with acceptable flow characteristics. Just like most bronzes are hollow, so are many of the bonded bronzes. Some people make the bronze layer thin, others, like myself, like to make it thick. After I finish casting, I have to prepare the surface and apply a finish. I usually have to fix small defects, and chase seams. I have seen how long it takes to apply a nice patina (By an expert, not me) to a small sculpture and I can say that it takes me much longer to finish my bonded bronzes.

Yes, I love bronze sculptures, and would love all my clients to request them, but most of them are happy with the bonded bronzes (85 to 87% bronze by weight, not by volume).

For me bonded bronze is just another material at my disposal. I use plastics of all types, steel, stainless and bronze in cast and powder form.

I always identify the materials used in my sculptures. I consider not Identifying the materials, especially when not using cast bronze, to be dishonest.

Ari.
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  #22  
Old 05-26-2008, 08:54 AM
dottybox dottybox is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Hello

I have a large sculpture called Angel Fish by Giovanni Schoeman, which is mounted on a picture frame.
It has been in our family for at least 35 years but I'm having trouble finding out the value of this piece for insurance purposes. Not sure if I should have it seperate from my standard home insurance.
Does anyone know anything about the Angel Fish - I'd be very grateful for any info.
Thank you
dotty
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  #23  
Old 06-04-2008, 10:09 AM
tammi144 tammi144 is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Hello,
I am no expert and am myself trying to determine certain values for some pieces I have however about 6 months ago I saw the piece your speaking of on ebay and I believe it sold for $500. ( I am not sure if this was US dollars??). There were a few of his pieces on at the time so I can't be 100% sure but I hope this helps somewhat.
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  #24  
Old 06-16-2008, 10:05 AM
yuuky yuuky is offline
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Smile Re: Giovanni Schoeman

Hi dottybox

I am also interested in your large fish sculpture.
Is that similar like this?? (it is found from internet.)
Because just, I am going to purchase another fish sculpture (Relief?).
I am very begineer of sculpture. However, his works is very atractive for me.

Just I would like to see what type of his works are still in the world...
Hope can see picture of your's.

VBR
yuuky
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  #25  
Old 07-25-2008, 03:20 AM
shadowfax shadowfax is offline
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Re: Giovanni Schoeman

I have quite a bit of information about Giovanni Schoeman, including photos of most of his work - in a multipage, original, color, brochure.

I could probably scan them & email a copy to you, if you like.

Please email me at wrb5@prodigy.net to let me know.

I would like to connect to other Schoeman collectors.

Cheers,
shadowfax
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