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  #51  
Old 09-18-2008, 12:13 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Understanding and tolerating are two completely different things. Understanding is for historians and that's their job. Tolerating is for little old ladies who have a 30 year old son living in their basement without a job and smoking pot. I'll risk being hated and dying alone rather than ride the conveyor belt of conformity into oblivion
Without understanding and tolerance it seems you will have a lonely ride.
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  #52  
Old 09-18-2008, 12:23 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

Well if you're lookin to hold hands and sit indian style at woodstock with flowers in your hair and all that stuff then ya, I'll take the "lonely" road.
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  #53  
Old 09-18-2008, 02:00 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Well if you're lookin to hold hands and sit indian style at woodstock with flowers in your hair and all that stuff then ya, I'll take the "lonely" road.
Here is the scary stuff, but you probably know this, those of use that did that stuff are everywhere now, only we don't call attention to ourselves in the same way. We're now hiding in cop uniforms, MD scrubs, scientist whites, preacher black, you name it. But about the hand holding, sorry I can't. Not because of your beliefs or that you're a guy, but you're too freekin tall. I had a girl friend once almost that tall,...what some guys will go through. Oh, by the way, she is a dentist(UCLA).
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  #54  
Old 09-18-2008, 02:34 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Originally Posted by grommet View Post
well, if you're not enjoying it, why are you here? Is this your punishment for something?
its inescapable. are you a little caught up on causality?
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  #55  
Old 09-18-2008, 02:36 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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While it indeed shouldn't take-up much of your time to control whats thought of you, it can be nourishing to accidentally please someone now and again. In your unavoidable role as "participator", it can pay-off to figure out how to hang at the edges of assimilation. But its a slippery-slope...to much engagement and positive re-inforcement and you're lost amongst them...a paycheck or commission-grabbing busybody (happens all the time to people who were once artists...but lost it). Don't worry, you wont be allowed to separate as much as you like...so learn to upend a good shot of it (detachment) whenever you can.
detachment is still understood only as a reaction to your environment...
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  #56  
Old 09-18-2008, 02:46 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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its inescapable. are you a little caught up on causality?
It IS escapable.
Though I am not caught up on causality, I am able to understand outcomes because I understand potential paths that could provide that outcome. Like when someone freaks out in the middle of the night, asking what was that noise-- I can break it down and identify it. It is just another tool in the toolbox. Is that a problem for you?

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detachment is still understood only as a reaction to your environment...
only if you are detached from your detachment. if you are within your "detachment", it has no label and therefore does not exist at all.
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  #57  
Old 09-18-2008, 02:58 PM
cooljamesx1 cooljamesx1 is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Is that a problem for you?
ya it can end up making you jump to conclusions
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  #58  
Old 09-18-2008, 03:20 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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hey the winner of american idol may not be a good "musician" or "artist", but they're sure as hell good at being a cog in getting people to watch tv.

I think I smell a lot of jealousy here...

hes probably watching a big tv right now. bastard.

this forum is becoming more and more unenlightening to me

Yup do admit it sure does sound that way. And i bet he does have a giant tv, i've just got a regular one, not even a flat screen. But i've worked with and been around many people way way more famous and loaded than hirst, and i've seen first hand that it's really not that cool to be famous. Many times it actually sucks. So no not jealous. Just not into his work and have no respect for the phony 100 million sales (remember the skull saga). Do like the brazenness of some of his pieces, but that's about it for me.

Coldj - Predictable comments, you're fostering your own dissatisfaction.
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  #59  
Old 09-18-2008, 03:21 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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ya it can end up making you jump to conclusions
That doesn't seem to be an issue for me, I am always aware of multiple possibilities so withold conclusion pending further evidence, unless I am pretty dang sure it was the cat playing with a toy. If I am only certain it was the cat, I investigate, because it could be a twistie, a toy or a mouse.
Experience and logic do provide some guidance.
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  #60  
Old 09-18-2008, 03:37 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

I'm disappointed. It is usually around this point that you all usually start in on the food analogies.

Oh...perhaps it is not disappointment at all - just dinner time.
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  #61  
Old 09-18-2008, 03:48 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

Food doesn't make my husband wake up flailing in the middle of the night. (thought it was a child, didn't you?)
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  #62  
Old 09-18-2008, 04:44 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

After this last auction, Hirst is estimated to be a billionaire. (in dollars)
That means there are only somewhere like 1000 other people in the world who could possibly be "way more loaded" than he is.
Most of whom live in India, Russia, and China.
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  #63  
Old 09-18-2008, 04:45 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

i dont know if its jealousy with me or not. i think i have not even seen more than a few of hirst works. the ones i did see i thought were alright. the diamond skull is cool and the falayed guy is neat. i think i did see a picture of the operating apartuses and they were really very cool in a creepy kinda way. but so what!!! it seems like there coming of as some kind of art hero legends or being portrayed like that. maybe i am totally off by thinking this but thats what i dont like is that jealousy
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  #64  
Old 09-18-2008, 04:55 PM
cooljamesx1 cooljamesx1 is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Originally Posted by suburbanartists View Post
Coldj - Predictable comments, you're fostering your own dissatisfaction.
to quote the Simpsons, the blues isn't about feeling better, its about making other people feel worse.

I'm not sure why it bothers you so much that his sales are "phony"... even if he just did it for the publicity, why are you so upset about it? can't you take some comfort in hanging out with all your even more famous and rich friends?
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  #65  
Old 09-18-2008, 05:12 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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detachment is still understood only as a reaction to your environment...
What if you create your own environment? Actually detachment from your reaction changes your environment. Gotta picture the environment like Einstein viewed spacetime.
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  #66  
Old 09-18-2008, 05:19 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
What if you create your own environment? Actually detachment from your reaction changes your environment. Gotta picture the environment like Einstein viewed spacetime.

Well, see, it's sort of what I was talking about here... Other people may view you as detached, whereas you may just think you're 'doing your own thing'.

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only if you are detached from your detachment. If you are within your "detachment", it has no label and therefore does not exist at all.
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  #67  
Old 09-18-2008, 07:28 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

Ahh, the failings of language...wish we could detach ourselves from IT... we'd likely develop one of the lesser known senses, the sixth or seventh one, that would allow for proper thought and for the intended anti-exchange.
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  #68  
Old 09-18-2008, 08:02 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Ahh, the failings of language...wish we could detach ourselves from IT... we'd likely develop one of the lesser known senses, the sixth or seventh one, that would allow for proper thought and for the intended anti-exchange.
No failing, simply nuance. Your suggested future of seamless communication does not sound like something worth striving toward from my vantage. Messy things often give us the greatest of pleasures: sloppy joes, sweaty sex, mud baths. Poorly chosen words and miscommunication can take you to places you would never dare trespass otherwise.

Of course you know the writers in the world (perhaps especially the poets) would disagree with all your "short comings of language" rants. Isn't the poet entitled to the same higher state of transformation as you when you are banging on some steel and in the zone?

Clean language for the sake of passing information need not alway be the goal of communication. Detach from language (and all of its pitfalls) and you detach from humanity.
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  #69  
Old 09-18-2008, 08:55 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

No...the poets are NOT entitled to the same higher state. They are only half an artist...using half of their presence and half of their potential. They dont actually "touch" anything and their only tool is a little alphabet. Cheese, you dont even know how fortunate you are to be a sculptor. The world is at your fingertips...no pressure, but for your sake do it right, but it will take fortitude to beat-back the distractions.

Hirst has a billion distractions I hear...a happy dude I suppose, sharper than the regulars, but thats not saying much.
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  #70  
Old 09-18-2008, 11:28 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

I'd be willing to bet there's a seat-of-the-pants poet out there who moves as he creates as he scrawls letters that become words on an old slate wall, all the while howling and stamping on a sheet of metal resting on a bed of clay while the whole place vibrates with(fill in the blank) as the timer ticks down to release the catch, plunging the whole mess down a demolition chute, to land on a carefully balanced pair of rollerskates, whick would roll, if only they weren't square...

Do you ever compose words as you mangle metal Mr. Johnson?
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  #71  
Old 09-18-2008, 11:37 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

I would agree that art in general is superior to language on a purely conceptual basis and that in the realm of pure thought, written words are a bit like gas guzzlers. Often times they take entire volumes to get across a few simple notions and ideas, which are then typically misunderstood anyway. They still list Romeo and Juliet a tradgedy for instance, even though it was intended by Shakespeare to be a comedy. Sculpture can encapsulate all of that and more and does not need to be understood at all. It rises above in relation to the intrinsic value of the written word except when it comes to text books and manuals and let's face it, by and large those were all written for dummies.
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  #72  
Old 09-19-2008, 07:36 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

Sorry, I don’t buy into hierarchies of expression*. Language is supremely conceptual - even on the most basic of levels as symbols representing sounds conveying imagery or abstract notion of being. The “limitations” of language (26 letter characters in English for example) is akin to the same “limitations” of chess - finite moves but infinite challenge.

Sculpture is intrinsically linked to language. Sure, one can argue that a work of sculpture can convey an idea that is impossible to express in language – but simply speaking the words stone can take the mind beyond any single sculpture and encompass all of creativity – bringing forth images of mountains and mines, boulders, pebbles, and every grain of sand on the planet. Potent stuff.

Reject language and you might as well hang up your MIG spool gun and call it a day.


*Except painting and its bastard child – photography. Third rate expressions fer sure.
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  #73  
Old 09-19-2008, 07:42 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
No...the poets are NOT entitled to the same higher state. They are only half an artist...using half of their presence and half of their potential. They dont actually "touch" anything and their only tool is a little alphabet. Cheese, you dont even know how fortunate you are to be a sculptor. The world is at your fingertips...no pressure, but for your sake do it right, but it will take fortitude to beat-back the distractions.
I have always sculpted hand-in-hand with language. I don't do pure abstraction, so there always tends to be a bit of narrative in my work. Narrative relies on a sense of language to be conveyed through the work.

To me, claiming to make language-free sculpture is a bit like waving around a gun with no bullets in it.
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  #74  
Old 09-19-2008, 09:43 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Originally Posted by cheesepaws View Post
Sorry, I don’t buy into hierarchies of expression*. Language is supremely conceptual - even on the most basic of levels as symbols representing sounds conveying imagery or abstract notion of being. The “limitations” of language (26 letter characters in English for example) is akin to the same “limitations” of chess - finite moves but infinite challenge.

Sculpture is intrinsically linked to language. Sure, one can argue that a work of sculpture can convey an idea that is impossible to express in language – but simply speaking the words stone can take the mind beyond any single sculpture and encompass all of creativity – bringing forth images of mountains and mines, boulders, pebbles, and every grain of sand on the planet. Potent stuff.

Reject language and you might as well hang up your MIG spool gun and call it a day.


*Except painting and its bastard child – photography. Third rate expressions fer sure.
Ahh yes,.. but Cheese,.. I am afraid you have it backwards. Being a chess expert myself I can vouge for it.. In chess there are more moves and combinations of moves than there are atoms in the universe, but they are all constrained by rules and the "challenge" is always the same, merely to win. It is similarly so with language.. When God created the great chain of being he started with himself, then the angels, then man and finally the animals. Why then can or should there be no great chain of expression? "Painting and its bastard child photography" (lol) are the evidence you yourself provide and sculpture is in lights comparitively and concedes no bounderies, rules or definitive goals.. Sharks in a potion for instance, the great masters could never have forseen them. No great conceptual shift like this will ever happen in a puny book.
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  #75  
Old 09-19-2008, 09:50 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

hey cheese? Could you hold it down, your narrative is tripping my tactile kinetics.

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Being a chess expert myself I can vouge for it..
Steven, great typo-- sooo close I had to push it over.
Your comments are based on assumptions, nothing solid. If I pull the bottom one out the whole thing totters and crumbles into wisps of fanciful language and crafted beliefs.
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Last edited by grommet : 09-19-2008 at 10:03 AM.
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