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  #51  
Old 04-17-2008, 09:48 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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Vote for me! I can bowl at least an 84!
"At least"? What is your REAL average? I smell an attempt at deception!
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  #52  
Old 04-17-2008, 09:52 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

hi cheesepaws. isnt it a little bit different the sports players i mean. there so much money in it from a lot of little things ticket sales and everything elles. to be able to play at that level you have to be truly gifted physicaly. i think there are truely gifted sculptors too like blake here or lots of others. but with these guys making all this money in the arts doing stuff like the blood head thing. or the subed out carving work. i think its all a bunch of crap
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  #53  
Old 04-17-2008, 10:00 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

How much happiness can one derive from envy of other's financial fortunes?
Just do your own work, the best you know how to. Perhaps one day you will reap huge financial rewards as well, and believe that all of your preparation and hard work paid off. Then you get to discover if piles of money serve as a means to greater happiness, a growing list of burdens, or an opportunity to do more great things.
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  #54  
Old 04-17-2008, 10:14 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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i think its all a bunch of crap
Look, all these athletes are truly gifted--at playing games with balls, and getting people to spend hours watching ball handling. Highly successful artist merely have other talents. I just don't give a shit about watching tv or live, how a little white, medium white, green, or oblong shaped one bounces between "goals" and holes, and people. Its like phony reality shows--TO ME. If people want to spend big bucks on "art" cool. I don't begrudge any one making piles of dough, that is, except for oil companies, doctors, lawyers, real people acting like they are someone else on stage or in front of cameras. Email me for the entire list. Oh, I left out the best paying part time job, those guys that only work on Sundays. What an omission.

Last edited by jOe~ : 04-17-2008 at 10:16 AM. Reason: significant omission
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  #55  
Old 04-17-2008, 10:22 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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"At least"? What is your REAL average? I smell an attempt at deception!
Yes, but it is really only self-deception...so I am comfortable lying about my average.
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  #56  
Old 04-17-2008, 10:30 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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Highly successful artist merely have other talents.

I would add - equally rare but amazingly undervalued talents.
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  #57  
Old 04-17-2008, 10:45 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

This thread shows you the potential of great work. The topic has expanded to include politics, honesty, money, sports, tv, sex(did you miss that one, it was subtle?), religion, craftsmanship, acting, status cars, art history. I'm sure we'll get to the few topics left out and other mysteries of the universe--like, what the hell are cheesepaws? Oh yeah, the weather, it still sucks here and the forecast is for worse.

Last edited by jOe~ : 04-17-2008 at 10:47 AM. Reason: update.
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  #58  
Old 04-17-2008, 10:55 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

when i say truly gifted about the athletes i mean there physical bodies there nervous systems and all. they are unique human specimens they are born with a physical gift and i admire that. the same way i admire the gift that a great sculptor has. i dont admire a good salemen selling crap. iam going to take glenns advice and forget about it and go and do what i love too do make sculpture
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  #59  
Old 04-17-2008, 10:59 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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glenns advice and forget about it and go and do what i love too do
Good gawd, do I even have to agree with Glenn? This thread must have come to its end. What is left?
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  #60  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:56 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
What is left?
We forgot the man-hating lesbian nazi -feminists in Texas from social services who stole 400 children without due-process and are keeping them to this day in concentration camps without their cell phones all because one anonymous caller asserted there was sexual abuse on a child who to this day doesn't even exist and how the news panderers at Fox and MSLSD and CNN all violated their civil rights.
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  #61  
Old 04-17-2008, 12:01 PM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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due-process
Does anyone believe in that any more? I thought that applied only to folks that are in income brackets that allow them to do whatever they want.
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  #62  
Old 04-17-2008, 12:06 PM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

Quinn obviously doesn't (due-process that is)... There, now we've come full circle.
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  #63  
Old 04-17-2008, 02:07 PM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
Good gawd, do I even have to agree with Glenn? This thread must have come to its end. What is left?
It is humbling to know that for some, agreeing with me is about as terrifying as going to the dentist!

Now, having been brought full circle by SteveW, I have linked this circle with another one from a different thread.
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  #64  
Old 04-17-2008, 02:16 PM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

hey i just had a great idea for my next piece how about a penis made from frozen sperm it could be called loaded gun i wonder if i could get a cool million for it.
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  #65  
Old 04-17-2008, 06:58 PM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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i wonder if i could get a cool million for it
Easy. Just get it from the right person and retain the cloning/movie/book rights. It would be worth much than a million. Think big.

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It is humbling to know that for some, agreeing with me...
Humbling? HUMBLING? HUMBLING? Say that as fast as you can!
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  #66  
Old 04-17-2008, 11:08 PM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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...confused about the real issues
Okay joe, what are the real issues as you believe or deceive them to be?

"Due process" this ... the 18 year old schoolmate who beheaded a guy got a mandatory life sentence without parole after the jury deliberated for 11 hours. Do you want to go back to the animal cruelty thread now? things seemed much more simple then...
The kid was in my daughter's health class. I don't think that teacher was very good.
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  #67  
Old 04-18-2008, 04:35 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

Coming back to Post 41:

“Perhaps you fear the loss of the hand….or a potentially dated need for an identifiable mark of the individual.” – Cheesepaws

I think we need to be careful here. Personally I sculpt in stone and I don’t get factories to scale up my maquettes or work up stuff from computer projections. In Italy I’ve seen what happens, and I don’t like it. At the level of object it would be alien to me. What I do is make objects. I don’t insert ideas into stone, I don’t have someone do the inserting for me, I make objects to sit about in the world. I like that, and there is an easily argued aesthetic to support that activity.

Personally I have loved, and defended the work of Damien Hirst (on this forum) for some years. Very little ‘hand’ in his work, most of which is constructed by teams of workers trained in the methods necessary to create sometimes dangerous objects, and do it well. However, the presence of 'hand' and the presence of the individual in the work is another issue. Hirst is a good example of the kind of artist who is using modern techniques but is still (in most cases) someone who does so in such a way as to inbed his character, his personal existence, in the work just as clearly and fully as Michelangelo did with his work of the hand. Anthony Caro did it too – he took metals associated with the building site and simply by his arrangement made them personal, made them reflect the presence of the artist in the 1960s. He created a stylistic lexicon. This was a real person, at work. Rachel Whiteread has worked in plaster casting for most of her life, and her work just reeks of her understanding of the relation between idea, technique and material. When I look at Quinn’s work in stone I see ideas inbedded there is a hackneyed style that is ITSELF outdated. Not only that, he uses materials (Carrara marble) that belong to that same OUTDATED past. Monuments in the style of Alison Lapper have littered cemeteries for generations. That’s part of the reason they are so difficult for me to look at – any GOOD artist will avoid unintended effects in the work. Quinn has offered up the sculpting to people (masons) who do not DO original, they only do DATED (your term). I do suspect, therefore, that Quinn may be exploiting the kudos associated with marble statuary……

As for the indentifiable mark of the individual – you seem to be suggesting that this is not necessary, or is somehow not ‘modern’. Again, I would invite you to compare the visual arts to literature. You claim a freedom for the visual artist from the need to speak as an identifiable individual, but when you read a good poem it is as much the writer’s wonderful skill with language (the tools of his trade) that make that work so good. (Have you ever heard of a great poet who came up with the idea and then got somone else to write the poem?!). Strip poetry of the writer’s individuality in style and manipulation of the language, and the work gutters. My objection to Quinn's work has fundamentally been that, in execution, his work fails to offer not only what every good poet will offer (a stylistic lexicon) but what every good artist I have come across also does.

By the way, I also find the ideas in the work one dimensional. The premises for the Alison Lapper piece - Redefining what is beautiful; Speaking up for interest groups that don't get represented; Offering a new perspective on what statuary has done down the centuries. Send me the essay, I don't need this as an OBJECT. As an object it does not show respect for any of these issues. It's a statement, writ large and in stone, and nothing else...

However, I must stop this. I’m starting to write essays here, or even worse, rambling on about stuff……

Last edited by Cantab : 04-18-2008 at 06:17 AM.
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  #68  
Old 04-18-2008, 10:30 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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Originally Posted by Cantab View Post
When I look at Quinn’s work in stone I see ideas inbedded there is a hackneyed style that is ITSELF outdated. Not only that, he uses materials (Carrara marble) that belong to that same OUTDATED past. Monuments in the style of Alison Lapper have littered cemeteries for generations. That’s part of the reason they are so difficult for me to look at – any GOOD artist will avoid unintended effects in the work. Quinn has offered up the sculpting to people (masons) who do not DO original, they only do DATED (your term). I do suspect, therefore, that Quinn may be exploiting the kudos associated with marble statuary……
I think it is fantastic that we can share an appreciation for Hirst and completely disagree about Quinn. Also, I apologize if I was less than clear when I mentioned: a potentially dated need for an identifiable mark of the individual. This was not a reference to working style, materials or craft tradition (all of which are exist as historical references in Quinn’s stone work), but rather the notion that the artist must be literally involved in the physical manifestation of a work that they created.

With the Lapper piece – all the “dated” references that you point out make perfect sense with Quinn’s concept and therefore strikes me as the appropriate “style” for the piece.

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Originally Posted by Cantab View Post
As for the indentifiable mark of the individual ...(Have you ever heard of a great poet who came up with the idea and then got somone else to write the poem?!). Strip poetry of the writer’s individuality in style and manipulation of the language, and the work gutters. My objection to Quinn's work has fundamentally been that, in execution, his work fails to offer not only what every good poet will offer (a stylistic lexicon) but what every good artist I have come across also does.
The literary parallel is a simple one – a poet who asks someone else to type up his work - or perhaps more directly related to Quinn’s work - the poet who types up his poem and asks someone else to re-write it by hand. The creative spark, design, and conceptual ownership resides with Quinn regardless of how or whom is “re-penning” his sculptures.

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Originally Posted by Cantab View Post
By the way, I also find the ideas in the work one dimensional. The premises for the Alison Lapper piece - Redefining what is beautiful; Speaking up for interest groups that don't get represented; Offering a new perspective on what statuary has done down the centuries. Send me the essay, I don't need this as an OBJECT. As an object it does not show respect for any of these issues. It's a statement, writ large and in stone, and nothing else...
Opinions are fantastic, but they are just that –opinion, and since we are offering them up… I see much more in the Lapper piece than what you already wrote including a wry (and potentially less popular) take on the memorializing of individuals – not for amazing deeds - but for merely overcoming their own hardships. This reference to heroism through an almost selfish fixation on the “personal challenge” sits in square opposition to the more historical memorialization of acts of self-sacrifice or leadership for the good of the many. I find this especially apt for the times amid the ME, ME, ME, generation. All of the “energy” of the work sits in this discord that Quinn strikes with a most subtle and skilled “hand”. Add to this the other considerations of careful balance, such as the figurative verses the bodily and the “style-less” handling of a traditional and art historical material, and Quinn has truly married sculpture to poetry.

That’s my opinion - nothing more.
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  #69  
Old 04-18-2008, 08:25 PM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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Okay joe, what are the real issues as you believe or deceive them to be?
All issues are real to the people that have them. So take your pick of the ones you want to quibble/agree with, or deal with the ones you can't help avoiding because they are really real for you. As for me, I stated my one issue--judging stuff/anything on process rather than final result. Along the way I announced my boredom of spectator sports. I should clarify that I don't dislike sports. Its just that I'm not a voyeur. Its only fun when I can play too. Often things worth doing are worth doing badly. But don't get me started on TV shows. I do have issues there.
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  #70  
Old 04-18-2008, 09:12 PM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

Ya kain't make griddle cakes by skippin' the flour... If the process is ignored then the result might as well be too unless you're so unfathomably vain as to suppose your mere "signature" is enough to qualify as a work of art..

I can fathom and agree partially with much of what has been put forth, both for and against this work, but if you're out sippin laytte's when you're supposed to be overseeing your vision then your vision will become a nightmare. Not to say that this qualifies as such, it's not all that bad and the stone workers did their best to save the day, but in the end, they can't BE the artist nor the vision, they can only be the "typists" etc... That's why Escoffier created the brigade system for Chef's and it's why they're all on T.V. today and very few "artists" are.. He could be doing so much more with this IMHO and I don't mean it as a slam at all.. I'm certain he learned a great deal from this exercise.
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  #71  
Old 04-19-2008, 08:40 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
All issues are real to the people that have them. So take your pick of the ones you want to quibble/agree with, or deal with the ones you can't help avoiding because they are really real for you. As for me, I stated my one issue--judging stuff/anything on process rather than final result. Along the way I announced my boredom of spectator sports. I should clarify that I don't dislike sports. Its just that I'm not a voyeur. Its only fun when I can play too. Often things worth doing are worth doing badly. But don't get me started on TV shows. I do have issues there.
Joe, going to see bands play is a spectator sport...all about the voyeur, watching THEM have fun so you can have some of the scraps. You give me a tiny spec of whatever Angus Young is feeling when hes on stage and I'm in la la land.
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  #72  
Old 04-19-2008, 10:49 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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Joe, going to see bands play is a spectator sport...all about the voyeur, watching THEM have fun so you can have some of the scraps
Its a spectator sport if you watch them on your ass on PBS. If you're really listening and being pummeled by the sound, shaking your ass off , dancing like a fool, surviving the mosh pit--it ain't voyeurism. Last Tuesday the local punk genius show had 4 bands. Three all shared the same equipment, two bands shared the same lead singer and bass player. One band, THE GROCERY BOYS, had only one member. He was eventually joined by other musicians for a song or two. The crowd consisted of a dozen or two music fools, mostly the band members. Yeah, it was a school nite. Too small for crowd surfing but the mosh was active, and my kid and several people even got on stage and sang a lick or two with them. It turned into a goddang party!!! If you're a wall flower ipod wearing anemic tattoo piercing fearing opera top ten listening tone deaf rhythm challenged golf player, yeah, its spectator. But REAL LOWD MUSIC is largely a participating sport--otherwise the bands would stay in their garages. Sometimes process is what its all about. There are no absolutes.
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  #73  
Old 04-19-2008, 10:02 PM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

dang joe, you make it almost sound fun-- except for the lowd part. I'd be the wuss with the earplugs shaking my ass. I guess y'all are deaf from the grinders anyway.

I wonder how the foetus sculptures would go over at the concert? See? back on topic.

Last edited by grommet : 04-20-2008 at 09:14 AM.
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  #74  
Old 04-20-2008, 10:57 AM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

RAWK is supposed to be LOWD. The foetus sculptures and art supposed to be stimulating thought, controversy, appreciation, and perhaps disgust in some. They did their job, no matter how they were constructed.
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  #75  
Old 04-20-2008, 01:24 PM
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Re: Marc Quinn's foetus sculptures

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stimulating thought, controversy, appreciation, and perhaps disgust in some.
Hey! I can do that too! But then, I've always considered life a multi-dimensional work in progress.
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