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  #51  
Old 01-14-2010, 12:29 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

I still aint buying it.

for instance, the eggheads perceive classical music as "beautiful", along with being harmonious and orderly.

"We", as a species, prefer rap music- rap music outsells classical in every measurable way- radio, internet, cd sales, popularity worldwide.

"We" as a species dont like ballet, or poetry, or for that matter, painting very much- But we love video games that involve shooting aliens, NCIS, and Dan Brown novels.

Once you use popularity as a justification for Beauty, you are backing yourself into a pretty scary corner.

For instance, its totally possible to look at the collections of the Louvre, or the National Gallery, online- and compare how many people do that to the hits on porn sites.


As for saying what I like just to win an argument- I am married, I know I can never win an argument.

But I do, indeed, like a lot of chaotic, noisy, asymmetrical things. Sincerely and deeply.

I grew up on free jazz, experimental electronic music, punk rock and garage bands.
I love Iggy Pop and Pere Ubu and Sonic Youth and Ornette Coleman and The Art Ensemble of Chicago.
I have all three of the recently re-released John Cale "noise" records, made when he was working with Lamonte Young in NYC before the Velvet Underground.
I saw the Clash, the Replacements, Frank Zappa, the Beastie Boys, and Grandmaster Flash live.
I own over 50 post 1968 "electric" Miles Davis albums.
I hum along to the Sex Pistols.
I like Lightning Bolt quite a bit.

I have seen most of the most hated performance artists live, usually right up front- Karen Finley shove yams up her ass, Ron Athey draw his HIV positive blood, draw with it, and send the drawings on a clothesline over the audience, Johanna Went toss giant bloody tampons into the crowd while wearing a nuns habit and boxing gloves, even Bob Flanagan pound nails through his scrotum while singing "If I had a Hammer"...

I am still sad at the fact that Leigh Bowery is no longer with us.

In terms of visual art, I like a lot of stuff that is not conventionally beautiful, to say the least. I collect a fair amount of art, trading and sometimes buying from friends and artists I like- and of the 100 or so pieces in my place, there are quite a few that are asymmetrical or not "orderly".

I may be wrong in everything I believe, but I am not making any of my tastes up- I walk the walk.
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  #52  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:23 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Of course, Glenn will only write-off Ries' post as only demonstrating deranged and deviant tastes. But in fact, what Ries is getting at is that there really is NO difference between chaos and order, good and evil, uglyness and beauty, art and craft and phony-baloney. . In an environment of maximum subjectivity, though (a place only we empowered waywards may occasionally occupy), one is free to pursue experience that nourish the self and NOT the group.

And no, the "nourishing" does not come from the spectacles and events we choose, whether they are the opera or Buckethead or the Plasmatics - the nourishing comes from the appetite for variation, the chasing of a surprise, the pursuing of pass-times and amusements that enrichen by REMOVING and venting culture rather than by slathering-on more and more and more of its sugary thickness. There is no doubt illuminating "beauty" in the doffing of the layers of crap your species has smothered you with during most of those waking hours you spend functioning.

And speaking of layers of crap...I once saw GG Allin (at the Gas Station? hazy days) dive into the audience naked after having covered himself in his own blood and excrement. Fortunately I was in the rear of the place fishing for a beer. Well, his patrons were a rough sort...and, while they enjoyed the raw, loud aggression of his rock'n'roll, didnt appreciate his distributing-about of his body fluids. They began to beat him silly. He made it to his feet and ran for his life with his fans still chasing after him through the east village. The band kept playing, I watched and listened from the back...delighted and widened, and while I wasnt aware of the presence of any "beauty", it sure beat the hell out of the necktied trip to the symphony that had been errantly ventured the week before.

Last edited by evaldart : 01-14-2010 at 08:42 AM.
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  #53  
Old 01-14-2010, 08:55 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Performance art is art, as tattooing is surgery.

GG Allin was a pathetic junkie pig- his death as sad as his tortured soul. He lived life like an alien, no sense of humanity or any semblance of happiness. To even reference him and his nauseating shows as some kind of performance to behold, is to ignore his lifeless unloved existence, like gawking at a car wreck and laughing. But I guess it's kewl, so what the fuck do I know?

If there is no difference between good and evil, than Dahmer and Mother Teresa were interchangeable.

Giotto, save yourself the headaches and don't waste time attempting to impart your viewpoint here. Deaf ears abound.
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  #54  
Old 01-14-2010, 09:16 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ries View Post

for instance, the eggheads perceive classical music as "beautiful", along with being harmonious and orderly.

"We", as a species, prefer rap music- rap music outsells classical in every measurable way- radio, internet, cd sales, popularity worldwide.

"We" as a species dont like ballet, or poetry, or for that matter, painting very much- But we love video games that involve shooting aliens, NCIS, and Dan Brown novels.
Moving past the mature use of the word "egghead", a generalization based on the factor of sales concludes that rap is preferred to classical by the "species". This ignores the fact that people who listen to classical music most likely have been building their music collection for many years and are not the same demographic of types who rely on the keeping up with the latest trends and the push for consumerism to stay "cool"? Classical music lovers don't need to rush out and buy the latest production that gets marketed, they may already have most of the selections they are satisfied with, and thus have a much smaller need to get the newest releases.

Plus, when mentioning "species", should that not include the billion plus Chinese, who I doubt are very much into rap, and India, which has its own versions of popular music, and ditto for much else of the non-western world.

As for video games, again, that is a narrow-ranged demographic mainly composed of of little boys and bigger boys who are yet to mature, and again if we are talking species rather than American youth, I think you would find that the generalizations make don't hold water. Comparing sales in a consumerism culture with world-wide taste preferences is not very scientific. Plus, factor in variables such as, does the video-game lover have any posters of paintings in their home? And, if they don't like poetry, why do they listen to rap, which is basically urban poetry? It just happens to be set to mind-numbing rhythmns and full of foul-mouthed anger. As for ballet, what about the successful TV show, " So you think you can dance?" or, if you were to include other forms of "formal" dance, " Dancing with the stars"?

As to this from evaldart:

"Of course, Glenn will only write-off Ries' post as only demonstrating deranged and deviant tastes. But in fact, what Ries is getting at is that there really is NO difference between chaos and order, good and evil, uglyness and beauty, art and craft and phony-baloney"

I don't have to write-off Ries' post on the basis of tastes. He makes his own bed and must lie in it. My concern is in his merit of his ideas. If the point is that there is no difference between these various things such as ugliness and beauty, then why waste all the time railing against beauty or those who affirm its value? But to even consider that there are no differences is to pretend that humans are not gifted with the facility of discernment or intelligence.

The sad attempt to blurr distinctions and say that A=B=C is part of a desire to bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator. This is what tyrannical governments try to do, devaluing the worth of the individual and making of everyone a soulless proletariat who serves the will of the state.
The charade of giving equal merit to an anus-compacting "performance artist" with the artistic genius of Michelangelo is far worse than a case of poor or deviant tastes. It is the kind of thing only possible in an age of stupidity, and just another silly attempt to confuse people who are succeptible to such nonsense.

If it is all the same, why bother? One nice thing about sports is that such stupid ideas don't have any traction. It is a merit based endeavor---either you at least perform to a certain standard, or you are out. And if you surpass that standard, you are a stand-out and are awarded accordingly.
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  #55  
Old 01-14-2010, 09:41 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Glenn, "anus compacting performance artists" art not making art...everyone knows that. And exactly, such spectacle should never be spoken in the same sentence with Michelangelo. But the egghead philosopher who got us going here did EXACTLY THAT. HE is the idiot who put Hirst next to Bernini in his essay in an attempt to demonstrate the point that beauty has deteriorated. Like Ries said, if you cherry-pick history you can validate ANY nonsense. Eggheads pick more cherries than anyone to preach their crap to the gullible. So there!

Will says dont bother...thats a slippery slope. The fear of wasting time is the first step to NOT doing.
yeah, yer right on about GG. But his guitarist played a MEAN white SG through a Marshall that would be sure the deaf ears stayed as deaf as they needed to be in antland.

Last edited by evaldart : 01-14-2010 at 09:51 AM.
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  #56  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:00 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

e, help me understand how to reconcile this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
"anus compacting performance artists" art not making art...everyone knows that. And exactly, such spectacle should never be spoken in the same sentence with Michelangelo.
with that:

"what Ries is getting at is that there really is NO difference between chaos and order, good and evil, uglyness and beauty, art and craft and phony-baloney"

It would seem that either " everyone knows that" or everyone but Ries knows that.

Further, I don't know why the examples used by the philospher were "cherry picking". He chose well known examples for the sake of making his point clear, but there are thousands of other examples he could have used instead. But what matters is if his obervations were correct or not. I don't think he said "beauty has deteriorated", but that the reagrd for beauty as it would have been understood in the past has. What has deteriorated is the spine of the keeper at the gates of consciousness. Insanity used to be kept out (unless substantial bribes were employed). Now it is a welcomed guest at the table, devouring reason while making gurgling sounds of human nonsense and deficating, all the while calling it art.

Last edited by GlennT : 01-14-2010 at 10:11 AM.
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  #57  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:08 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
I don't have to write-off Ries' post on the basis of tastes. He makes his own bed and must lie in it. My concern is in his merit of his ideas. If the point is that there is no difference between these various things such as ugliness and beauty, then why waste all the time railing against beauty or those who affirm its value? But to even consider that there are no differences is to pretend that humans are not gifted with the facility of discernment or intelligence.

The sad attempt to blurr distinctions and say that A=B=C is part of a desire to bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator.
Rather, what you suggest is that there's clear distinctions, and yours is better. What I suggest is that there's a lot of blurring, with a wide range of appreciation, intensity of appreciation, intellectual depth of appreciation, and motivation for/ outcome from appreciation, etc. To whom do you wish to appeal? yourself? others? which others?

Quote:
This is what tyrannical governments try to do, devaluing the worth of the individual and making of everyone a soulless proletariat who serves the will of the state.
The charade of giving equal merit to an anus-compacting "performance artist" with the artistic genius of Michelangelo is far worse than a case of poor or deviant tastes. It is the kind of thing only possible in an age of stupidity, and just another silly attempt to confuse people who are succeptible to such nonsense.
So you're suggesting that we should only devalue the individuals whose work you don't like???

Quote:
If it is all the same, why bother? One nice thing about sports is that such stupid ideas don't have any traction. It is a merit based endeavor---either you at least perform to a certain standard, or you are out. And if you surpass that standard, you are a stand-out and are awarded accordingly.
How very republican of you.
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Last edited by grommet : 01-14-2010 at 10:22 AM.
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  #58  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:13 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT View Post
e, help me understand how to reconcile this:



with that:

"what Ries is getting at is that there really is NO difference between chaos and order, good and evil, uglyness and beauty, art and craft and phony-baloney"

It would seem that either " everyone knows that" or everyone but Ries knows that.
Glenn, the problem, as always, is the words. People and eggheads and brainiacs and dipshits - by the desperation of communication, always render their own language useless; to the point that every individual is swimming alone in an ocean of vague-nesses - of maximum subjectivity and MUST, if he cares to make ANY gains whatsoever, surmise his OWN definition of everything. The alignment and participation will always fail, shortchange and disappoint.
We have no choice but to work with the foggy meanings of words during day to day communication...lest we freeze and starve; but in important matters such as the developing of ones consciousness through physical and intellectual strife, the silly words must be dismissed, not uttered even in your head. Special moments are tainted by thinking that includes language. So all the passages, paragraphs, and truisms that you picked up along the way belong in storage back there in your kindergarten memory. The differences between things matter there when you're just starting out (and hopefully thats not also the same place you end up).
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  #59  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:22 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
what you suggest is that there's clear distinctions, and yours is better.


So you're suggesting that we should only devalue the individuals whose work you don't like???


How very republican of you.
you talk out of both ends, friend.

Yes, there are clear distinctions. I happen to think mine are not only better, but way better. But I also think you are are free to think the same of your preferences.

I don't suggest devaluing individuals whose work I don't like. That concept is wrong on two counts. One, if I were to assign value, it would be to the work, not the individual. Two, it is not a case of devaluing, it is a case of not over-inflating.

As for your last quoted response to my, "If its all the same, why bother?", and the analogy of sports, you name call but do not make a logical point. Was there one, or are you just devaluing an individual whose thoughts you don't like?
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  #60  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:26 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT View Post
Yes, there are clear distinctions. I happen to think mine are not only better, but way better. But I also think you are are free to think the same of your preferences.

I don't suggest devaluing individuals whose work I don't like. That concept is wrong on two counts. One, if I were to assign value, it would be to the work, not the individual. Two, it is not a case of devaluing, it is a case of not over-inflating. Who gets to choose that? Same difference, a value judgement

As for your last quoted response to my, "If its all the same, why bother?", and the analogy of sports, you name call but do not make a logical point. Was there one, or are you just devaluing an individual whose thoughts you don't like?
hence my retraction, because I was out of breath and don't want to appear as windy as others.
My point in essence is that there's more people involved in a sporting event than the players, and not all of them are playing war games. The removal of portions of the participants changes the event. ticket sales, fans, commentator, fabric merchants, mascot, etc
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  #61  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:46 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

My head feels crowded this morning- must be because there are so many people in it telling me what I think...

Anyway- what I think is this-

I am allowed to pick my own beauty.
And I do.
All the stuff I mentioned, I LIKED. I did not like it because of how it offends people, or its reaction against "beauty".
I liked it solely for what it was.
Observing something, and finding its intrinsic beauty is what I am talking about.
I also like some old stuff.
I am sure I have been to far more museums, around the world, and looked at far more baby jesus paintings, than 99% of humanity, and probably than Glenn.
I didnt do it out of ignorance, spite, or the desire to fool the public.
I did it because I am sincerely interested in the creative output of human beings, and I dont judge it til after I see it.

I did not say classical music was NOT beautiful, or put it down.

What I said was, Giotto keeps saying that science proves that "WE", as a species, love beauty.
He was actively arguing that what the largest number of people find beautiful, IS beautiful.

I was merely pointing out that many of the things that the largest number of people unquestionably prefer, whether they are "narrow-ranged demographic mainly composed of of little boys and bigger boys who are yet to mature" or not, is mostly stuff that neither Glenn nor Giotto would consider "beautiful".

I am not endorsing or putting down popular tastes- I am merely stating that if you hitch your wagon to beauty being an innate thing all humans can appreciate, then it logically follows that the stuff all humans demonstratably DO appreciate must be "beautiful".
His theory, not mine.

And no matter what gloss you put on the good taste of classical music lovers, classical music's audience, in every measurable datum, is declining every year.
For a very good, and wide ranging discussion of this FACT, by classical composers, conductors, and musicians, read this thread-
http://www.artsjournal.com/sandow/

The largest circulation art magazine in the USA has circulation numbers a tiny fraction of any of the many soap opera magazines.

Most people dont care about "high culture".
This is a fact, not my opinion.

Putting them down as philistines is all well and good, but it doesnt change that fact. If you depend on demographics to prove your point, you are in the camp of lovers of corn syrup, The Titanic, and Final Fantasy VII.

As for sports- from what I read in the papers, sports are about drugs- no?
At least, winning at them seems to be.
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  #62  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:50 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Beauty is part of the universe. The scientific studies about beauty do not reveal anything new. These researchers are just telling us what is already known. There stating it dose not change a thing. (well it gives an answer for those unwilling to see it themselves the acceptance of their research seems more to me to be a danger in convention.) maybe some who would never have thought about will at best have read over their words and feel like they learned something that was not already apart of them. The research only proves that our existence is what is beautiful. If you believe in a divine creator then like everything else beauty is part of the entire creation. there is no beauty that man has created, it is part of our nature (some are more intooned to it, some lust after it, some of these people become artist and can tap in to there inherent understanding of beauty and then present it in their work. We may not be robots but I think its safe to say there is a particular amount of programing that comes with being alive. The symmetry notion of beauty was first realized in the first instance of matter. I can say I dont believe in a chaos theory when I see nothing chaotic about the visions coming to us from the furthest reaches of our understood universe. I don't know how anyone person can't recognize the infinite order just in the view of our visible universe. beauty is always linked to the psychology of the whomever recognizing it. Artist may use a contrived and established formula for beauty as means to draw in the viewer to discover something new. Somethings are beautiful simply because they are familiar. I can remember in my youth purchaser a CD based off the beauty I saw in the music coming off the radio from a single track. When I brought the CD home and listened to the album the beauty of the other tracks was none, to the point i felt jipped. I liked the work that inspired the buy so intensely I continued to give the rest a chance. In a short time the beauty I saw initially in the original track became clear to me to be more so evident in the other tracks on the album. To this day my emotions are swirled and delighted from the album yet, the single track that inspired the purchase was realized to have been made to draw interest and encompass a larger audience. It seemes to me today to be the simplest form of the beauty in their work. Beauty is not always evident I learned here. I learned that it takes some consideration and often study to see the beauty. I believe that everything holds beauty, it just may not be understood till it can be appreciated.
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  #63  
Old 01-14-2010, 10:53 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Well, thanks for trying to explain your point grommet but I still don't get it, nor see what it has to do with Republicanism. My point was the clear-cut system of merit based on performancing to an expected standard of excellence. The number of fans, mascots, and periferral shennanigans does not change the quality aspect, only the quantity of the reward.

As to grommet's "who gets to" make a value judgement question, clearly I do.
If others are not willing to cede their powers of judgement over to my superior wisdom, I'll just have to be content with keeping things at a high level in my own realm!

Ries, sports is not about drugs any more than governance is about sleazy Democrat vipers who buy and sell power. The corruption does not define the essence, it merely shows those who did not already know that humans are corruptible.

birdjes, you make some good points but the "everything holds beauty if we could only perceive it" type of argument has difficulties at the level of human interactions. Is there beauty in the face of an evil dictator? Does perceiving that address any important element or understanding of the circumstance? Maybe at a level that I don't understand from the human perspective where I currently find myself operating.

Last edited by GlennT : 01-14-2010 at 11:19 AM.
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  #64  
Old 01-14-2010, 11:02 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
I don't suggest devaluing individuals whose work I don't like. That concept is wrong on two counts. One, if I were to assign value, it would be to the work, not the individual.
And this, friend is where it all goes to shit, because by following the path of people who don't allow blurring and variety, I could now conclude that you
"don't value the individual"

in the same way that folks can take those scientific studies and conclude that there is a universal notion of beauty.

in the same way that a person could conclude that one notion of beauty should supercede all others, is superior to others, and could in fact replace all others.

My point about the peripheral "players" is that variety is the spice of life, and removing any portion of variety changes everything. You may perform to an excellent standard to no one if you disallow the value of many.
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Old 01-14-2010, 11:13 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

I gotta disagree with Matt-

Having this argument over and over again tells us nothing new.

we come back, again and again, to the same endpoint.

Somebody says-

what I like is good.
why?
because I say so.

Somebody else (Me, usually, but not always) says-

How come what I like isnt good too?

Answer-
because I say so.
sometimes supported by-
also, a bunch of dead guys said so.
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  #66  
Old 01-14-2010, 11:26 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Ries, what is it about what you like that puts you on the defensive?

I don't find myself having to explain or justify liking Mahler or Bernini very much. If beauty is so subjective, should I not just as often find myself in your predicament?
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  #67  
Old 01-14-2010, 11:55 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

What we must advantage here during our exchanges is the noticing of the subtle differences that occur within the "same ol arguments" (and of course new people with their own approaches). And notice too the differences in our own response...as we have changed as individuals since the last time we had this talk. There is different thinking behind those same ol words...a re-arrangement perhaps, or, by god, the introduction of a previously unused term to color things edgewise. I even see Glenn changing...ever so slightly. And as much as he'd never want to do that, the creative impulse, once momentumed, always wins.

In a month or so it will be time for art vs craft again So arm yourselves.
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:36 PM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
in the same way that a person could conclude that one notion of beauty should supercede all others, is superior to others, and could in fact replace all others.
I agree with you Grommet, the term "Beauty " is loaded but keeping in mind the definition of beauty I am using, it seems the argument falls into two camps.

Beauty is subjective
i.e. the viewers' evaluation of art is fully subjective. It is determined by experience and personal values

or

Beauty is objective
i.e. in biological terms that human beings are endowed with species-specific mechanisms that resonate in response to certain parameters present in works of art.

I have presented 6 papers that say it's objective. I have an open mind. If any of you has some scientific research that states otherwise please present it and I will consider it.

(we propose that beauty is grounded in the processing experiences of the perceiver, which are in part a function of stimulus properties.)
http://psr.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/8/4/364

G
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Old 01-14-2010, 12:50 PM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Glenn, you are confusing defensive with descriptive.

I am not the least bit defensive.
I am calm and secure in knowing that I do, indeed like what I like, and that no one else has to.

Although, curiously enough, many other people also like what I like.

Just as many other people dont.

For the record, I love Bernini as well, and find it not the least bit incongrous with also loving David Hammons.
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:16 PM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giotto View Post
I agree with you Grommet, the term "Beauty " is loaded but keeping in mind the definition of beauty I am using, it seems the argument falls into two camps.

Beauty is subjective
i.e. the viewers' evaluation of art is fully subjective. It is determined by experience and personal values

or

Beauty is objective
i.e. in biological terms that human beings are endowed with species-specific mechanisms that resonate in response to certain parameters present in works of art.

I have presented 6 papers that say it's objective. I have an open mind. If any of you has some scientific research that states otherwise please present it and I will consider it.

(we propose that beauty is grounded in the processing experiences of the perceiver, which are in part a function of stimulus properties.)
http://psr.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/8/4/364

G
I'm saying that what the researchers have identified is by NO definition "beauty". It is recognition. People are happy when they recognize something that represents the innately familiar.
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Old 01-14-2010, 01:33 PM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Scientific research is just shoddy suppositions. They call them facts until someone else's scientific research becomes the updated version. People often bring research into their personal unfathomables are closing the door to their creative potential. Closing the door to being the best you can be. If you wonder why you have no "Pieta" or "Raft of the Medusa" in your studio (or anywhere else) it is because of the distraction s of science, religion or politics.

Oh, and I like a lot of things that Ries likes, and I might describe them in conversation as "beautiful" or "awesome", unafraid of those terms meaninglessness (as a confirmed blabbermouth I'll not give up ANY of the accumulated grunts and groans that allow me access to dialogue during my recovery time between the bursts of pertinence). But thats just personal "taste" and we've all got something oddball hiding in that closet...no matter how cardboard (or outlandish) we wish to present ourselves to each other.
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  #72  
Old 01-14-2010, 01:38 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
Scientific research is just shoddy suppositions. They call them facts until someone else's scientific research becomes the updated version. People often bring research into their personal unfathomables are closing the door to their creative potential. Closing the door to being the best you can be. If you wonder why you have no "Pieta" or "Raft of the Medusa" in your studio (or anywhere else) it is because of the distraction s of science, religion or politics.
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  #73  
Old 01-14-2010, 02:12 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
If you wonder why you have no "Pieta" or "Raft of the Medusa" in your studio (or anywhere else) it is because of the distraction s of science, religion or politics.
I love this one!

Okay, I'm calling your bluff. Its you, the studio, and no distractions. Your pick, "Pieta" or "Raft of Medusa". I'll give you one year. Go!
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  #74  
Old 01-14-2010, 02:13 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
Scientific research is just shoddy suppositions.
I have never seen the "Scientific method" described so simply.

G
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  #75  
Old 01-14-2010, 02:17 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

I claim, on post # 75, that "Beauty matters"! Otherwise, we would have been done at least 70 posts earlier.
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