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  #76  
Old 05-06-2009, 04:38 PM
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Aaron Schroeder Aaron Schroeder is offline
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Sounds like a few of us are confusing Art and Fine Art.

There is a difference.
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  #77  
Old 05-06-2009, 04:43 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
Sounds like a few of us are confusing Art and Fine Art.

There is a difference
That would include me. So for example do you mean like Ball Room dance which involves competition and numeric scoring v.s. slam dancing where no one gives a fuck?
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  #78  
Old 05-06-2009, 05:23 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

It might be a fun exercise to try the "scoring art by numbers" system. But then judge selection could be dicey...

" Framplegarp's "There's Plenty of Room in the Cooridor's of Your Mind" installation gets straight "10's" across the board except for a "3" from the Bulgarian judge, who apparently missed the pay-off meeting at the Russian hospitality lounge."

Last edited by GlennT : 05-06-2009 at 05:39 PM.
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  #79  
Old 05-06-2009, 06:31 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
By Jove, rather snappy thinking on your part gent! Why I can see it now. Art competition events in the Olympics! Better yet, tv shows, "So You Think You Can Sculpt?", or "American Artist Idol", or "Malcolm in the Middle-of Art" , "Art Survivor--Afghanistan ", or "Crime Scene Artist".....
Someones beaten you to it
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  #80  
Old 05-06-2009, 06:54 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

And then there was junkyard wars...
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  #81  
Old 05-07-2009, 02:17 AM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Even though the word art only has three letters, it's a huge word. It blankets a vast amount of meaning. Dispite having been associated with higher aspirations and such, at it's root it's meaning is more mundane and pedestrian.

Art means " to join "........" To put together " and comes from the root word " Ar ", which ment arm.

Artist=Armist.

Of course things have change, now we include stuff made by foot as well.
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  #82  
Old 05-07-2009, 07:56 AM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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Originally Posted by grommet View Post
And then there was junkyard wars...

Junkyard wars is no good because they work in teams. No teams allowed. Nothing but aesthetic compromise and the watering-down of all the good ideas. The"common good" is always just common...even in art.
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  #83  
Old 05-07-2009, 08:41 AM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Schroeder View Post
Sounds like a few of us are confusing Art and Fine Art.

There is a difference.
Can you re-Fine the difference?
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  #84  
Old 05-07-2009, 08:47 AM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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No teams allowed. Nothing but aesthetic compromise and the watering-down of all the good ideas.
Even though I create art as an individual artist, I have never bought into this aspect of the evaldart lexicon of art. Why assume that involving another person would guarantee aesthetic compromise or water down good ideas?
If person A has chosen team member B wisely, it should in fact create a synergistic energy of increased inspiration and ideas, where the excellence that each one has established plays off of and inspires the other.

It is just like how we give each other critiques. You can easily ignore the ones that are of no value, but often the fresh eyes and perspective helps the artist to re-evaluate the work in a new way. That does not compromise individual genius, it may in fact sharpen it.

Look at a movie like the Lord of the Rings. Peter Jackson has an artistic vision, but as one individual he could never pull it off as a finished movie without involving a huge team who run with his vision and add their own creative input and genius to flesh out the idea. Show me the aesthetic compromise and watering down of good ideas. It seems to me that these movies were as close to perfection in that genre as could have been humanly possible, because good decisions were made at every level.
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  #85  
Old 05-07-2009, 09:20 AM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
in that genre
bad example, not fine art. lacks purity and truth, too much butter & it's not real butter anyway.
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  #86  
Old 05-07-2009, 09:23 AM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Note: I have edited and refined post #66, my "iron clad definition" of art. For those too lazy to read it, the sound bite version is: jOe~ sez that ART is an experience. Period. Read the post for unstated, but subliminally suggested disclaimers and warnings.
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  #87  
Old 05-07-2009, 09:28 AM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
By Jove, rather snappy thinking on your part gent! Why I can see it now. Art competition events in the Olympics! Better yet, tv shows, "So You Think You Can Sculpt?", or "American Artist Idol", or "Malcolm in the Middle-of Art" , "Art Survivor--Afghanistan ", or "Crime Scene Artist".....
And "Iron Art", Today's secret ingredient is: Linguine! It goes back to what Cheese was talking about, "consensus" and whatnot.. Actually a good show on Art would be okay in my book.
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  #88  
Old 05-07-2009, 09:33 AM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Glenn, dont let your soccer thinking get into your art. While it is advantageous to approach portions your aesthetics as you would an athletic event, an athletic event will not ever have anything to do with aesthetics. Fairness, rules, roles, sportmanship and selflessness all disempower an individual; cause him to make decisions based on the actions or potential actions of others. All this is well and good in the "game" we call life - good lessons indeed, but Art occurs seperate from this. Yes, I know...there is the sspectator to consider and the "performance" side of the whole thing. Yes, there is a place for collaberations. But collaberations presuppose weaknesses on the part of its members. "team" efforts pretend that they utilize individual strengths to offset percieved weaknesses. When actually, they only have the player running around waiting for his chance. Art arrives by the opposite; very concentrated acts that are linked, not separated, by unchallenged decisions.
The movies? Gotta love all them huge props...dinosaurs, robots, flying saucers and cyclops. Takes thousands to get all that done. So Jackson-land, Scorcese-land and Spielberg-land are not much different than Disneyland. Pretty far down the list in the hierarchy of the Arts.
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  #89  
Old 05-07-2009, 09:54 AM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

[quote=evaldart;76771The movies? Pretty far down the list in the hierarchy of the Arts.[/QUOTE]

That would depend on what your Iron-clad definition of "Art" is.

Some folks here see no such hierarchy.

If the definition included a quantitative element such as effect on society as a whole (which I know evaldart's definition would not), the movies unfortunately would be rather high on the list, and much of the "Fine Arts" near the bottom.

I think we are still only looking at rubber-clad definitions of Art.
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  #90  
Old 05-07-2009, 02:11 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

well if you're not going to have heirarchy and are looking at effect on society, why not include the grand physical/ mental /spatial manipulation that is diet pills and then why not marijuana? all that is akin to the general movie scene.
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  #91  
Old 05-07-2009, 02:59 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
well if you're not going to have heirarchy and are looking at effect on society, why not include the grand physical/ mental /spatial manipulation that is diet pills and then why not marijuana? all that is akin to the general movie scene.
I agree. I support medicinal marijuana and good movies. Especially when supporting each other. When both are of extremely high quality you do enter an entirely new hierarchy. Is that what you are saying Grommet? You do sound quite liberated. Movies are such a high art form. This is something I've been pondering and I've come to the conclusion, that if there were to be an hierarchy, then film would get the top spot in the art pyramid of meaningful experiences.

I've never needed diet pills? Am I missing something?

Last edited by jOe~ : 05-07-2009 at 03:41 PM. Reason: clarity
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  #92  
Old 05-07-2009, 03:55 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Unencumbered by clouds of noxious smoke in my brain cells, I think I have come up with a workable, if not ironclad definition of Art:

Art: That which is capable of causing both an artist who has produced it, and the random viewer who has experienced it, to affirm, "This is Art!"
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  #93  
Old 05-07-2009, 04:02 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Creating babies is usually a meaningful experience.
Even just trying to.
Is that art?
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  #94  
Old 05-07-2009, 04:05 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
Art: That which is capable of causing both an artist who has produced it, and the random viewer who has experienced it, to affirm, "This is Art!"
Very good Glenn. That is what I said in posts #66 & #86. I just backed it up with all scientific precision possible given the limitations of this forum.
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  #95  
Old 05-07-2009, 04:07 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
Creating babies is usually a meaningful experience.
Even just trying to.
Is that art?
Go practice having a baby by yourself.
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  #96  
Old 05-07-2009, 04:11 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT View Post
Unencumbered by clouds of noxious smoke in my brain cells, I think I have come up with a workable, if not ironclad definition of Art:

Art: That which is capable of causing both an artist who has produced it, and the random viewer who has experienced it, to affirm, "This is Art!"
That's a fun definition. I can feel another tv show coming on, like some kind of 'taste test' Pepsi challenge with people on the street.
'Is this art?' (object of some kind on table in street)
'Well let's find out shall we!-Oy you in the red shirt, can we borrow you for a minute...'

Get some monkey painted stuff up next to stuff pulled from galleries and let the random viewer decide!
Mind you, the monkey would have to express his opinion too I suppose for his effort to be declared art.

Last edited by CritterSteve : 05-07-2009 at 04:26 PM.
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  #97  
Old 05-07-2009, 06:06 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
Very good Glenn. That is what I said in posts #66 & #86. I just backed it up with all scientific precision possible given the limitations of this forum.
Oh...I hadn't realized all that mumbo jumbo was scientific precision...thought it was just the noxious smoke kickin' in!
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  #98  
Old 05-07-2009, 06:34 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
I agree. I support medicinal marijuana and good movies. Especially when supporting each other. When both are of extremely high quality you do enter an entirely new hierarchy. Is that what you are saying Grommet? You do sound quite liberated. Movies are such a high art form. This is something I've been pondering and I've come to the conclusion, that if there were to be an hierarchy, then film would get the top spot in the art pyramid of meaningful experiences.

I've never needed diet pills? Am I missing something?
Me neither.

You betcha, call us when the smoke clears.
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  #99  
Old 05-07-2009, 08:41 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Quote:
You betcha, call us when the smoke clears
99.999% of my posts were composed in clean fresh mountain air. The other times the county issued an hazardous air quality alert which was beyond my control. I do not write or create or work under the influence of cannabis. You think my thinking and writing are that bizarre?

Quote:
Oh...I hadn't realized all that mumbo jumbo was scientific precision..
I challenge anyone to issue a more precise "iron clad definition". Like I said, I kept it simple given the limitations of the forum. Good thing.

Last edited by jOe~ : 05-07-2009 at 09:45 PM.
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  #100  
Old 05-14-2009, 10:25 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

below image of ironclad art,and its definitive.. HMS Devastation 1871, 9180 tons 4 x12 guns, 6x 6pounders, triple expansion 14 knots
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