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  #51  
Old 05-05-2009, 02:28 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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Originally Posted by GlennT View Post
Fine. And then what?
and then we'll have brontoburgers and hose water, lest we become too dehydrated or depleted to make our presence known to all within earshot and beyond.
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  #52  
Old 05-05-2009, 03:09 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

I guess art used to be defined as performing ANY activity to such a high level that it was beyond the scope of most practitioners.
If it was an activity rooted in the crafts, you're artistry might be pottery, sculpture, painting, drawing, music etc.

If it was something not rooted in those crafts, but you could do it beyond the abilities of most practitioners (accounting, jumping, arguing, killing, conceptualizing), well since we like Sting here, 'you could turn that murder into art'.


But now perhaps it might be that certain activities are considered art (because they fall under the umbrella of the arts) regardless of how competent the artist is. Hence 'good art' and 'bad art'?

In which case you're not an artist even if you are the world's #1 at something else that isn't under the umbrella of the arts.

So I wonder is art a set of subjects that might contain the area you are working in, or is art how good you are (after you have mastered what you do), whatever area you're working in?
Or both, or something else?
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  #53  
Old 05-05-2009, 03:17 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Critter dude, you're new here so haven't been in on some of the other diatribes. There's other words to cover the levels of handmade items. Try craftsman, artisan, artist, Artist for starters.
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  #54  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:21 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

jOe, my point was that these things, " the accomplished, the accrued, the accepted, the known, the understood, the comforting and the believed", are a significant part of the large body of what is understood as "Art".

So, if the goal is to encourage the "abandonment, forsaking, disemboweling, usurping, atomizing, smithereening, and unseating", then all that has been accomplished by so doing is that the body of "Art" has less material to claim involvement with the human consciousness.

So then, I'm wondering, what will be created that makes eliminating all of that worth while? Is this the unique generation in human history that has such all-encompassing wisdom that it must eliminate all that has gone before it in order to properly express itself? Or can whatever is created in lieu of all of those known quantities be accomplished without the need to burn bridges with our past? Bernini, for example, transcended many of the limits of what had be produced before him just by doing his work, not by squashing classical and renaissance art.

Last edited by GlennT : 05-05-2009 at 09:10 PM.
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  #55  
Old 05-05-2009, 04:53 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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I guess art used to be defined as performing ANY activity to such a high level that it was beyond the scope of most practitioners.
Well that ain't hard to do these days unless it's about who got the highest score on the latest X-Box game.

I generally agree though, I guess..
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  #56  
Old 05-05-2009, 05:44 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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So, if the goal is to encourage the "abandonment, forsaking, disemboweling, usurping, atomizing, smithereening, and unseating",
It isn't the goal I don't think. It is meant as encouragement to use your freedom of expression to the fullest--no holds barred.

Quote:
I'm wondering, what will be created that makes eliminating all of that worth while?
This is why you are suffering needlessly. You misunderstand. No one is advocating eliminating ANYTHING. A few might be, but there is always some one advocating eliminating something, anything you can imagine actually.

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Is this the unique generation in human history that has such all-encompassing wisdom that...
No generation holds the winning card in the wisdom game. New problems, new solutions, new weapons, new reasons, new lies...it morphs.
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  #57  
Old 05-05-2009, 09:15 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Thanks jOe for the clarification. Now I can relax and have a brontoburger, hold the hosewater. Grommet, got anything in a good non-alchoholic brewski?
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  #58  
Old 05-05-2009, 09:30 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

[quote=GlennT;76696 got anything in a good non-alchoholic brewski?[/QUOTE]


Try Coors Light.
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  #59  
Old 05-05-2009, 10:47 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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Grommet, got anything in a good non-alchoholic brewski?
umm, like some tamari?
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  #60  
Old 05-05-2009, 10:48 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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Try Coors Light.
Are you kidding me? I said," Hold the hosewater"!

The best I have found so far are St. Pauli Girl, Paulander Thomasbrau, Becks, and Kaliber. These are just fine but not great, they have not risen to the realm of beer "Art".

Grommet, tamari, or even better, umeboshi plum vinegar would be fine to spice up the brontoburger, but I need some non-fire firewater to wash it down.
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  #61  
Old 05-05-2009, 11:24 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Your choices are limited. We've got the hosewater, some vintage red zinger tea, the everclear that is used to make shellac, and some walnut vinegar. Oh, and lots of hot sauce. How about a mango and jump up and kiss me fruity hot sauce smoothie? that'll give you something to think about later.
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  #62  
Old 05-06-2009, 09:05 AM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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How about a mango and jump up and kiss me fruity hot sauce smoothie?
I won't even consider jumping up and kissing you unless you put down that axe first! And don't call me "fruity hot sauce smoothie"! Don't you know I'm trying hard to maintain a certain image here?
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  #63  
Old 05-06-2009, 09:18 AM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

"Fuity Hot Sauce Smoothie" will be the title for my next abstraction. "Jump Up and Kiss Me" sounds good too. Keep em comin' G. I'm always at a loss for words when it comes to titles.
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  #64  
Old 05-06-2009, 10:23 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

I should have known better...
Well, here's a link to that and more hot sauces for your titling pleasure.
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  #65  
Old 05-06-2009, 12:10 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

one thousandths of daily thought....

Art is anything you put energy into and it gives more energy back.

Whether the energy you put into it is visual, looking at it, mental, thinking about it, physical, working it up, spiritual, praying for help to stop obsessing about it, psychic, channeling, telepathing, or any other way of giving attention to something, if it reciprocates with its own energy and inspiration that is the difference between a lifeless object and art.

Or how about this one.

Something that is easy to argue against but difficult to argue for. A bit like deciding there is a higher power of some sort out there. It takes faith. You got to believe. Same with art. It is easy to shoot ideas down. A lot harder to find ways or words to support inspiration. It is also a lot easier to reject inspiration that accept it. The cynics position is a safe one. low risk, low gain. lot easier to go along with that acceptable viewpoint than take the risk.
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  #66  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:06 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

Ok. here you go. This is everything I know in a nutshell(what a nutty concept) about the topic "iron clad definitions of "Art".

There is this slot, a compartment in the human brain labeled ART. This cubby hole is larger in some people due to experience, development, innate need, what ever. It varies. Its' size, parameters, and entry threshold are determined by an analog-biochemical-spiritual-intellectual-emotional based logic system. Different things fit in at different times for different "reasons". ART is the file drawer label and can only delineate the contents with tremendous imprecision. The cubby holes' "definition", can not be anything but fluid, imprecise. ART is experienced once the threshold for entry is surpassed and admittance is granted. Thus ART is what stimulates those neurons. ART is an experience. That's it. ART CAN ONLY BE DEFINED THIS WAY. It is "determined" by forces measured in what can only called sloppy quantitative methods.

Truth, as I talk about it, is involved because personal experience is the truth for experience given one's level of awareness. The truth and experience, and thus Art can,will morph. I have nothing more to say, ever, that will delineate or limit the definition of ART. This is the truth. It will change, but can contribute nothing to accuracy.

Inner freedom, a frequent topic, comes up when stimulants, as in experience, are blocked/denied admission for un-hygienic reasons.

Joy requires a positive bias to the systemic operating mode that is geared to reducing/eliminating counterproductive emotions. This is about living fully, mindfully. Its kind of a big deal I think. I do my best to work at being mindful everyday. Not maintaining the positive calibration is toxic and ultimately fatal.

Last edited by jOe~ : 05-07-2009 at 09:06 AM. Reason: clarity
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  #67  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:26 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

That's a great definition, Joe.

The joy thing though, the action indicated presupposes a level of security- physical and othewise, that will allow that focus. Either that or a very second nature eyes on the back of your head thing & lightning reflexes.
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  #68  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:46 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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The joy thing though, the action indicated presupposes a level of security- physical and othewise, that will allow that focus. Either that or a very second nature eyes on the back of your head thing & lightning reflexes
Not really, though that is one common approach. A better one, perhaps, is guided by the realization(literally, as in making it real) that: If there is nothing you can do about it, why stress? And if there is something you can do about, why stress? That keeps the tuning positive. It takes discipline to control the unruly mind. I give full credit to the Dalai Lama for these lessons.
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  #69  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:50 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

"Iron Clad"

I think i am going to use that. I am curating a local metal artists show and i have decided not to define art except for that is uses metal. There are so many different metal artists and kinds of metal so i am using that as my theme. I don't think there is an iron clad def. for art that is iraputably universal. I know what my art is and i sometimes what i like suprises me. I like to keep that door open. For my show i do demand that each artist or colaboration make their own art and that they are not made by any methods of mass production. I guess even that is not iron clad because i am not asking we take these elements from raw earth we get the metal from other sources. I guess that is like putting paint on canvas- the artist is the one who makes it art.

Z
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  #70  
Old 05-06-2009, 01:56 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

I like most of that definition too. "Joy", maybe, but only as it aligns itself with instantaneous epiphanic combustion (I.E.C). Joy is not a rare or unusual thing. It always feels the same, yet is always separated by vast stillnesses of hum-drum and its sibling, Misery. Easily accessed from any normal human place or strata. The array of things that bring the same ol' joy are wide enough that they should remain unmentioned...there might be unfair or seemingly incorrect comparisons.

Besides, Art isnt about joy it is about transcendence (more dog-eared terminology). Evolution can tell us what must be done to survive and prosper; evolution even helps a given organism with its amusements and addictions. But Evolution has no use for thoughts that do not aim to satisfy a "need". Therefore, Art must come ONLY from those thoughts and actions that occur independent of sustenance, in fact, the Art might even work AGAINST sustenance. A pox perhaps. So the properly infected individual might swim through most of the automaton'd hours irrepairably consumed by the eager anticipation of that next burst or expulsion of that which is so, so vital yet so unrequired. Neurons are owned by the organism...they are the size of planets compared to the atomless motivators that are responsible for Art. Yet everything depends upon that less-than-gaseous giant. Art is the only thing that separates us from the dirt, the slugs and the ANTS.
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  #71  
Old 05-06-2009, 02:20 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

art and thumbs!
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  #72  
Old 05-06-2009, 03:36 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

You cant define are, but you can apply a bit of science to decide how 'art' something is.
First artists (not critics) need to agree what sort of factors are employed/needed to create a piece of art. I would say practical skill, time, how unique, effort, stimulating etc.

Give each factor a max of 10, so above total would add up to 50. Study a piece of work and mark it on each factor, total up the score and the nearer to 50 it is the more 'art' it is. The further from 50 the less 'art' it is.

e.g. Tracy emin's 'my bed' for the above 1,2,10,1,5 = 19, so not really art, or may be a little bit.
try for yourself.
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  #73  
Old 05-06-2009, 03:40 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
Not really, though that is one common approach. A better one, perhaps, is guided by the realization(literally, as in making it real) that: If there is nothing you can do about it, why stress? And if there is something you can do about, why stress? That keeps the tuning positive. It takes discipline to control the unruly mind. I give full credit to the Dalai Lama for these lessons.
While what you say is true...
. Congrats on your mastery.
It takes focus for creative problem solving. To do that and exude joy is too much multitasking in one segment for me. Perhaps alternating current would be beneficial....
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Last edited by grommet : 05-06-2009 at 03:52 PM.
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  #74  
Old 05-06-2009, 03:47 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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You cant define are, but you can apply a bit of science to decide how 'art' something is.
First artists (not critics) need to agree what sort of factors are employed/needed to create a piece of art. I would say practical skill, time, how unique, effort, stimulating etc.

Give each factor a max of 10, so above total would add up to 50. Study a piece of work and mark it on each factor, total up the score and the nearer to 50 it is the more 'art' it is. The further from 50 the less 'art' it is.

e.g. Tracy emin's 'my bed' for the above 1,2,10,1,5 = 19, so not really art, or may be a little bit.
try for yourself.
There again, not scientific, but sujective. No better than a one eye closed Popeye gander at the thing & giving a thumbs up. Just has all the show of actually doing hard work while still being meaningless. Rube Goldberg art criticism.
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  #75  
Old 05-06-2009, 04:25 PM
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Re: Iron clad definition of 'Art'

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Give each factor a max of 10, so above total would add up to 50. Study a piece of work and mark it on each factor, total up the score and the nearer to 50 it is the more 'art' it is. The further from 50 the less 'art' it is.

e.g. Tracy emin's 'my bed' for the above 1,2,10,1,5 = 19, so not really art, or may be a little bit.
By Jove, rather snappy thinking on your part gent! Why I can see it now. Art competition events in the Olympics! Better yet, tv shows, "So You Think You Can Sculpt?", or "American Artist Idol", or "Malcolm in the Middle-of Art" , "Art Survivor--Afghanistan ", or "Crime Scene Artist".....
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