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  #26  
Old 02-01-2009, 08:31 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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Originally Posted by Aaron Schroeder View Post
It's about effective communication between a sender and a reciever.
Right. Installation art works best when the artist has something worthwhile to communicate, and does so in a way that others can understand without having to go to another source, such as verbal explanation, to decode the thing. These seem to occur too rarely.
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  #27  
Old 02-01-2009, 08:40 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

Look, in installation, the "staging" of it all will always yield like a sissy to the "message". Such a weakness in physical assertion is tough to accept, for me. Its like theatre, which generally will require a plot, a narrative, or a desire to communicate to people. All the real sculpture out there does not NEED to link-up with anyone...but it usually does, and does-so, on its own terms, by sheer force.
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  #28  
Old 02-01-2009, 09:26 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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Look, in installation, the "staging" of it all will always yield like a sissy to the "message". Such a weakness in physical assertion is tough to accept, for me. Its like theatre, which generally will require a plot, a narrative, or a desire to communicate to people. All the real sculpture out there does not NEED to link-up with anyone...but it usually does, and does-so, on its own terms, by sheer force.




Why do NOUS (majestueuse) keep shouting at each other from the same side of the canon . Each piece stands on its on and does not lose any individual meaning from participation in the group. The group is defined by the individual not the other way around.

Robert

L'union fait la force. Le devis belge. And for those of you who know Flecian Rops, I will leave to your imagination the ménage a trois that that can make.

rd
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  #29  
Old 02-01-2009, 09:38 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

Derr, I bet that groupings of objects contain secretly individual motives not unlike groupings of people. They can present themselves as a functioning and serviceable group, but ACTUALLY one member wishes for more, one member supposes that he is more important, better, more deserving, ABOVE. So his reason for being there departs from the origional plan of unity and readily subverts and decays the group from the inside. This is true with a collection of objects as well. The weaker ones get in the way, and perhaps might even ruin things for the stronger one. For all things to be considered just right, they must stand alone...no dependents, no hangers-on, no supporters or admirers. Its bad enough we sculptors often must battle with goddamned trees. The best created thing, needs nothing nor wants anything next to it.
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  #30  
Old 02-01-2009, 12:32 PM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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Derr, I bet that groupings of objects contain secretly individual motives not unlike groupings of people. They can present themselves as a functioning and serviceable group, but ACTUALLY one member wishes for more, one member supposes that he is more important, better, more deserving, ABOVE. So his reason for being there departs from the origional plan of unity and readily subverts and decays the group from the inside. This is true with a collection of objects as well. The weaker ones get in the way, and perhaps might even ruin things for the stronger one. For all things to be considered just right, they must stand alone...no dependents, no hangers-on, no supporters or admirers. Its bad enough we sculptors often must battle with goddamned trees. The best created thing, needs nothing nor wants anything next to it.

That is supposing that there are weaker ones.

Robert
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  #31  
Old 02-01-2009, 01:09 PM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

I suppose a football analogy could work here with the super bowl and all - something like... the successes and specialities of the individual players contributing to the efforts and accomplishments of an entire team.

Installation art doesn't try to compete or occupy the same "space" as object-based sculpture - so the comparison is a bit of a fruitless effort.
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  #32  
Old 02-01-2009, 01:28 PM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

Installation art often falls short for many people because it takes on a larger scope than other forms of art. It's challenging for the maker and the veiwer. Instead of providing a single point of focus such as a sculpture or painting, the installation artist must surrond the veiwer with multiple points of focus. The idea is that a sum of parts yields feelings and thoughts that no one thing can deliver on it's own. Installation art is a lot like set design.
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  #33  
Old 02-01-2009, 10:10 PM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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I think installations are concerned with ideas, feelings and also changing the context of an object, i.e. the best of them transform the mundane object into an experience that transcends the visual identity of the individual object into another experience, or when the parts become the whole.
(Bold is mine)

I'm certainly not trying to pick on you, but this description tends to be what is wrong with much of installation and explorations of modern art. There is a tendency to try to over-intellectualize the transplanting of "mundane" objects under a new "lens." Really, it boils down to sticking something (anything?) into in unfamiliar setting. After the fact, we are inundated with buzz-words like synthesis and juxtapose, (a word that needs to be outlawed) and expected to accept it as some grandiose, synergistic expenditure.

Perhaps we are shown three different installations with a different "message":

-"The downfall of society"
-"The realization that we are all connected under the umbrella of humanity"
-"The socioeconomic implications of Wal-Mart"



...and without any forays into correlative explanations/titles illustrating what said installation represents, we're left with what we see. Perhaps:

-A pickle in a crib
-Handcuffs on a slab of ribs
-Ten-Thousand (cruelty-free) cotton balls strewn about a gallery floor



With that said, there ARE examples of good installation art, but they become lumped together with clumsy, feeble attempts at profundity that provide little or no indication of craftsmanship, material expertise or a unique level of artistry that breaches the output of the ever-present Must-Juxtapose-Everything Generator.

Last edited by obseq : 02-02-2009 at 07:45 AM.
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  #34  
Old 02-02-2009, 07:51 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

obseq, I couldn't have said it any better, even had I used a random explanation generator!
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  #35  
Old 02-02-2009, 09:57 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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...and without any forays into correlative explanations/titles illustrating what said installation represents, we're left with what we see.

The more open one's eyes (and mind) - the more one might see.
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  #36  
Old 02-02-2009, 10:11 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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The more open one's eyes (and mind) - the more one might see.
Hey, I got that in my fortune cookie last night. Along with (because I eat two) "the forest depends upon the weakness of the tree."
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  #37  
Old 02-02-2009, 10:57 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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Originally Posted by obseq View Post
(Bold is mine)

...., but they become lumped together with clumsy, feeble attempts at profundity that provide little or no indication of craftsmanship, material expertise or a unique level of artistry that breaches the output of the ever-present Must-Juxtapose-Everything Generator.
The cottonball revolution is clearly in order, I fully agree.
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  #38  
Old 02-02-2009, 10:57 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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Hey, I got that in my fortune cookie last night. Along with (because I eat two) "the forest depends upon the weakness of the tree."
I'm guessing you ordered the Pu-Pu platter.
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  #39  
Old 02-02-2009, 12:04 PM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

I had a more suitable dinner than Chinese to accompany a Steeler's victory: A deep dish pizza. If it had come with a fortune cookie, it would have read, "Deep dish pizza goes best with German Beer".

A good fortune cookie message prior to viewing installation art:

" You will travel soon on strange mental journey "
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  #40  
Old 02-02-2009, 05:20 PM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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I'm guessing you ordered the Pu-Pu platter.

Yep, and it only comes family size...so its perfect for Evaldart.
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  #41  
Old 02-06-2009, 05:01 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

Interesting posts.

Evaldart raises an interesting issue of how a collection of disparate objects rise above themselves to become art, to constitute a work of art that acquires a coherent aesthetic that includes its various parts. I have seen Hirst do it in the 1990s - his hospital waste boxes (here he offers us the ‘aesthetic’ of the commercial waste disposal unit, square metal containers in vivid, functional yellows and blues), then the chemists stores room (another box with its coloured pills, some actually quite beautifully designed) and the flies glass box containers. Here the conflict between life and its artistic organisation is part of the works. So, I can see an interesting aesthetic that invites me to explore the works according to principles that I understand to be associated with art-objects.

What interested me when I started this thread was the issue of how an installation aesthetic emerges. And I still wonder whether installation art emerges from a fully formed aesthetic sensibility or whether it is more like ‘let’s have fun making stuff with this other ready-made stuff’, which may not involve an aesthetic at all. It may be complex, it may have ‘a point’ and it may have a cultural role, but WHAT MAKES IT ART?
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Last edited by Portoro : 02-06-2009 at 07:16 AM.
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  #42  
Old 02-06-2009, 06:41 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

How do you define installation art? Hirst’s “fly box” containers, for example, do not strike me as fitting into a definition of installation art but rather exist as fully autonomous sculptures.
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  #43  
Old 02-06-2009, 07:12 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

Well, your question raises another - surely Hirst's flies life cycle boxes ('A Thousand Years 1990') cannot be called 'sculptures' in any sense. Where's the sculpting? These are massive glass and steel boxes with thousands of flies and a cow's head inserted. Sculpture? If it isn't an installation, then it's category-free....

Wikipedia - 'Installation art uses sculptural materials and other media to modify the way a particular space is experienced. Installation art is not necessarily confined to gallery spaces and can be any material intervention in everyday public or private spaces.
Installation art incorporates almost any media to create an experience in a particular environment'.

Not definitive, of course, and not worth arguing about, of course. But the use of the sublime 'sculpture' in this context IS worth arguing about...
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Last edited by Portoro : 02-06-2009 at 07:33 AM.
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  #44  
Old 02-06-2009, 07:44 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

To me it is missing something, perhaps a can of raid on the little white box.
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  #45  
Old 02-06-2009, 08:07 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

Just another hipster-damaged shop window. NO sculpture is behind the glass...something else?, yes, something related to Art?, maybe (as "culture" provides and all-encompassing definition), something that has made Hirst better at perception? I doubt it. Something that makes you recall his fashionable eyewear? YES!
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  #46  
Old 02-06-2009, 08:49 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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Originally Posted by Portoro View Post
Well, your question raises another - surely Hirst's flies life cycle boxes ('A Thousand Years 1990') cannot be called 'sculptures' in any sense. Where's the sculpting? These are massive glass and steel boxes with thousands of flies and a cow's head inserted. Sculpture? If it isn't an installation, then it's category-free....

Not definitive, of course, and not worth arguing about, of course. But the use of the sublime 'sculpture' in this context IS worth arguing about...
The definition of sculpture has long been expanded to include more than modeling and carving. I would hope that this discussion doesn’t stall on THAT tired point. Assemblage, if you need a label for what the “fly” works might be called, explores the SAME relationship of many parts that is the hallmark of Modernism (Smith et al).

IMO - Installation art is primarily concerned with the art reacting to a specific environment (a gallery room, an outdoor site, etc.) in a manner that acknowledges its structure, history or other peculiarities. Installation art is typified by the used of multi-elements, multi-media, non-mediating display devices (pedestals or plinths, etc.) and supports an immersion-based sensory experience rather than a strictly observational one.
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  #47  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:14 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

I don't so much consider stretching the definition of art to include Hirst's Fly boxes to be progress as much as it seems like making excuses for demonstrating extremely poor taste coupled with intellectual vanity.
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  #48  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:18 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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I don't so much consider stretching the definition of art to include Hirst's Fly boxes to be progress as much as it seems like making excuses for demonstrating extremely poor taste coupled with intellectual vanity.
It has already been accepted as "art" - so no stretching required. The question at hand is whether the art can be called installation AND Portoro's original concerns regarding the aesthetics of installation art in general.
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  #49  
Old 02-06-2009, 09:27 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

Hey Cheese, I like your definition better than Wikipedias...see if you can get that changed, will ya. (the word "sculpture" is not present, either).
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  #50  
Old 02-06-2009, 11:56 AM
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Re: So, who makes installation art?

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It has already been accepted as "art" - so no stretching required.
Dang it! I missed the jury call. Are the polls still open?
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