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  #26  
Old 07-09-2008, 06:36 PM
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rderr.com rderr.com is offline
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Re: Chasing Beauty
I would prefer a fetus remaining in the womb until its time of birth, some hot water, and a side order of towels and blankets. Hold the formaldehyde.
Today 06:00 PM


I grew up in a family where the bitch went to pups and that was that. No choice. How many of those women died, I do not know. When did the men decide that they had a say, after Gone With The Wind, maybe?

Art is provocative
Art is sacred
Art is referential
Robert Derr
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  #27  
Old 07-09-2008, 07:04 PM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Gericault delighted in the demolishing of his peers...a primitive satisfaction. Yet this painting took him places that money and fame never could. He had a short life...its quite possible he wasn't up to the challenge of bettering himself. Some of us art-farts are stronger than others.
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  #28  
Old 07-09-2008, 09:16 PM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

<<...there is no thing of beauty which is universal to all?
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NO-----------------<< is there nothing of beauty...>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> it is cultural, sacred, referential provocative.

RD
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  #29  
Old 07-09-2008, 09:46 PM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

is<<...there is no thing of beauty which is universal to all?...>>>
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TRUTH

RD
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  #30  
Old 07-09-2008, 11:25 PM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Well, no question Keats was a brilliant poet, but I would counter the assertion with the unknown. Beauty understood is beauty which is already fading.. If Art were to someday be quantified, known and defined, it would no longer be Art.
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  #31  
Old 07-10-2008, 01:13 AM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder.

When I read that phrase on a bumper sticker, I thought it was funny.

One has to be in the right frame of mind to see beauty. Chasing that right frame of mind seems to be what the arts and sciences are all about.
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  #32  
Old 07-10-2008, 09:05 AM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Beauty is waking up in the morning and looking at the new day with the innocence of a child!
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  #33  
Old 07-10-2008, 10:10 AM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman View Post
Beauty is waking up in the morning and looking at the new day with the innocence of a child!
Great quote! It doesn't get much better than that!
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  #34  
Old 07-10-2008, 11:21 AM
ironman ironman is offline
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Hi, Quote? That's my saying and to my knowledge no one else's.
Another one although not related is: did you ever notice that the words "Marriage" and "Mirage" are very close in spelling?
Have a great day,
Jeff
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  #35  
Old 07-10-2008, 12:19 PM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

sorry, Ironman...I did not mean to imply that it was a quote from someone else, I just meant as a quote ( from you ) it is wonderful.
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  #36  
Old 07-10-2008, 02:34 PM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Perhaps it is a nice (if fluffy) quote - but is it any more or less "true" than:

Beauty is waking up in the morning in a pool of your own vomit and with a stitched-up wound on your belly just about where your left kidney used to be.



It's all beautiful...no?
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  #37  
Old 07-10-2008, 04:03 PM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Thanks. Further evidence, unsolicited, regarding the aptness of the phrase," the Age of Stupidity" to describe these times we live in.
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  #38  
Old 07-10-2008, 04:40 PM
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cheesepaws cheesepaws is offline
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Ouch! That hurts Glenn......that's beautiful.

Seriously, shouldn't any human condition reflect some element of beauty? If you disagree...please make some kind of point to help me understand where you are coming from.
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  #39  
Old 07-10-2008, 05:03 PM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

As much as I disclaim the use of the word "beauty" I can interpret it as an "exceptional" experience. Of course there are plenty of "ugly" exceptional experiences, but it is in the interest of confidence and general furtherance to dismiss those altogether, as failed steps-taken. The whole vomit and kidney thing sounds like something out of a Tom Waits song or a Bukowski novel...valuable as artified, metaphorical fluff but NOT as actuality. Our Art is actual - no substitutions of glorious or vile subject pretending to be real - WORDS are weak. SYMBOL is weak. The stuff you actually behold might be strong...or it might be nothing at all.
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  #40  
Old 07-10-2008, 05:10 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
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Re: Chasing Beauty

http://www.tfaoi.com/cm/4cm/4cm335.pdf

This is a worthwhile read if your interested in trends in art and the "Slow art" movement.

One of their tenants: "While for some of us subject matter is extremely important, for all of us the pure aesthetic experience is
paramount."

(Christy I'm talking to you)

G
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  #41  
Old 07-10-2008, 05:40 PM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Quote:
Originally Posted by cheesepaws View Post
Ouch! That hurts Glenn......that's beautiful.

Seriously, shouldn't any human condition reflect some element of beauty? If you disagree...please make some kind of point to help me understand where you are coming from.
Please, if you believe that your intellectual approach to beauty trumps reality, go to your nearest hospital and look for situations similar to what you have described. Then ask those suffering people if they are having a beautiful experience.

Take your idea further. Go to the site of a terrorist attack, pick up the scattered remains of human flesh, and marvel at the beauty of molecular configurations. Then deliver yourself to an institution where someone may be able to help you. If you are seeing beauty in rape, torture, or abuse of children, which are all unfortunately elements of the current human condition, then I am truly concerned on your behalf.

The moral relativism whereby "all things are equal" and "every point of view is equally valid" is the sure road to the destruction of civilization.

Sure, one can find beauty in the midst of suffering, especially if one is detached from the emotional or physical pain of it. I think that trying to present such experiences as equal to pure beauty as we (most of us) understand shows an incomprehensible lack of understanding and compassion for the person suffering.

The beauty of which we speak when we think of the innocent child experiencing a new day with a grateful heart is an exaltation of the goodness of light and love, rejoicing in the beauty of creation in its pure intended form. There is no foreboding weight of oppressive forces marring the moment.

Last edited by GlennT : 07-10-2008 at 07:53 PM.
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  #42  
Old 07-10-2008, 09:40 PM
christy talbott christy talbott is offline
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Re: Chasing Beauty

i dunno cheesepaws, the dalai lama or some other enlightened one might think you make a point, albeit rather crudely i read something somewhere that michael j fox wrote. it was touching to read. he said he was grateful for his parkison's. he said he wouldn't have ever chosen that for himself, but that he was grateful for it. i guess he appreciates life and love more than he had before.

still i'm not sure about the 'beauty is truth' thing. i think more likely, like lisa says, beauty is love. anyway maybe beauty and truth are sisters

i'm familiar with this movement to realism in art G. thank you very much for the link. i'm still trying to work out how i feel about it. i'm seeing lots of this type art. it's amazing technically, but i haven't seen anything that really moves me yet. have you?
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  #43  
Old 07-10-2008, 10:55 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Christy,

Many examples come to mind but I just got my latest edition of Sculpture Review. If you don't have a copy see if you can get one. There are many pieces in this addition I think of as beautiful. One sculpture that caught my eye was Louise Peterson's dog. The view in the magazine is from the tail end...anyway she captured something about the unabashed luxury of a dog rolling on it's back scratching itself. I think this is beautiful.

Technical skills for their own sake while impressive are only part of what makes a artist.


G
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  #44  
Old 07-10-2008, 11:45 PM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT View Post
The beauty of which we speak when we think of the innocent child experiencing a new day with a grateful heart is an exaltation of the goodness of light and love, rejoicing in the beauty of creation in its pure intended form. There is no foreboding weight of oppressive forces marring the moment.
Pain, regret, remorse…all supply the contrast in life that allow one to identify what is or can be beautiful. That is to say that you would be far less likely to exalt the wide-eyed child metaphor if you did not know that adulthood is rife with disappointment and loss. This adult pain is WHY the child’s view IS idealized. That is not to say that suffering or pain IS beautiful – just that separating idealized “beauty” out from everything else that potentially gives beauty value in one’s life seems a bit naive. (Perhaps to be expected if one is always looking at things as if through the eyes of a child.)

We don’t settle for a single color – but rather a complex spectrum. Is it so far fetched to suggest that beauty itself could have multiple "hues"?
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  #45  
Old 07-11-2008, 02:22 AM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Quote:
Originally Posted by christy talbott View Post
i guess he appreciates life and love more than he had before.
either that or hes rationalizing because his life sucks now? lets be sure we don't get too positive... man that wink smiley is terrible, who winks like that?
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  #46  
Old 07-11-2008, 08:30 AM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

A difficulty in this discussion occurs when we are not clear about the subject we are discussing. Are we talking about what is beauty? Are we talking about what is not beauty but makes beauty more cherished when juxtaposed to it? Are we talking about a "buddhic" state where one sees beauty equally in all things, and ignores the morality associated with conditions? Or are we talking about the individual transcending the negative or ugly in a circumstance and just consciously focusing on beauty, in an effort of transcendence?

If we are trying to define beauty, we may differ on its aspects or hues, but there are some common elements that most people would be likely to agree with, such as it inspires, it uplifts, it embodies harmony, it is or can be transcendant.

I think that most people would agree that Ironman's description clearly tapped into the essence of beauty in one of its many aspects.

Describing a sorrid or squallid condition does not universally do the same. The effects regarding harmony, upliftment, inspiration, etc. will certainly not be automatic, in fact may not occur at all. On an individual basis, one can percieve or re-interpret an aspect of beauty within such a condition. For example, war is hell, but individual acts of heroism within the realm of war may express beauty. The Greek depiction of warriors in sculpture and painting are beautiful works of art. The artist has distilled the aspect of beauty from the circumstance and held it up as a thing apart.
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  #47  
Old 07-11-2008, 09:12 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT View Post

If we are trying to define beauty, we may differ on its aspects or hues, but there are some common elements that most people would be likely to agree with, such as it inspires, it uplifts, it embodies harmony, it is or can be transcendant.

I think that most people would agree that Ironman's description clearly tapped into the essence of beauty in one of its many aspects. innocence, trite, whatever
Describing a sorrid or squallid condition does not universally do the same. The effects regarding harmony, upliftment, inspiration, etc. will certainly not be automatic, in fact may not occur at all. On an individual basis, one can percieve or re-interpret an aspect of beauty within such a condition. For example, war is hell, but individual acts of heroism within the realm of war may express beauty. The Greek depiction of warriors in sculpture and painting are beautiful works of art. The artist has distilled the aspect of beauty from the circumstance and held it up as a thing apart.
Rather than stand in line for the traditional concept of beauty ( those people and their beauty-grubbing sharp elbows) I'll take the other path or no path. You can set off on your own and enjoy the day, or rail that you were 57th in line for the beauty and would have gotten in, but it got dark.
Screw the rules. "Beauty" is overrated.
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  #48  
Old 07-11-2008, 10:22 AM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

quote Glen T <<...to describe these times we live in...>>and to quote someone somehere else, perhaps Glean T "...to be of ones time..." is to be beautiful.

This morning I crossed two women comming out of the court house dressed in black and white, one young , one old. The young one was carring on, on a cell phone--surrly of our times. The other was quitely walking and keeping her conversation to herself. Which was beautiful?

again quote Glen T <<...from the profound to the profane in the space...>>

Another couple, men this time. They stop to relieve themselves on the Golden Gate. One turns to the other and says, "Man, that water is cold." The other replies, "Yea, and deap." Moral: One man's profond only touches the surface of the other's capacity to measure the depth.

Robert Derr
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  #49  
Old 07-11-2008, 10:58 AM
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Re: Chasing Beauty

Beauty is a neurochemical state of mind triggered by sense data that tripps filters of perception associated with ones preconcieved ideas of beauty. Change a persons brain chemistry, their filters of awareness or ideas about beauty and you can change a persons ability to experience or not experience a shared idea about beauty. People are hardwired to experience beauty and horror among other emotional states in much the same way, that hardwireing belies the universals that we all seem to agree on, yet things get complicated when we discuss how culture and socialization changes our ideas of beauty.

People can be conditioned to respond to sense data in any number of ways. What has always amazed me is how groups of people consciously and unconsciously work together to distort the perceptions of others so that they don't see beauty where they naturally would. For example, In china, for centuries, beautiful, normal, functional feet were considered ugly.......so they crushed and bound feet so that they would be as small as possible.......this was somehow more preferable. Barbaric or sophisticated ? Our culture ( American ) is just as bad or good depending on how we look at ourselves.

Beauty seems to be one of those ends that can be used to justify just about any means. A dangerous concept that can be maligned to disastorous results. Some times chasing beauty can be so wrong.
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  #50  
Old 07-11-2008, 12:39 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
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Re: Chasing Beauty

This is from the paper I provided the link to:

G

"Ironically, the return to realism suggests a return to the “unseen truths” of William James — transcendence, truth, God, spirituality, beauty, natural law, justice, virtue, order, harmony — which modernism has stripped away. The field of bioaesthetics, observes Frederick Turner, reveals the evolutionary roots and human universality of visual representation, melody, narrative, dramatic mimesis, poetic meter, dance, architecture and other genres of the arts. “These genres, forms, skills and crafts are not arbitrary social
constructs, as modernism argues, but neurophysiologic competencies as instinctive to us as language, rooted in our bodies and neurological systems
."
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