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  #1  
Old 10-25-2006, 10:53 AM
mark pilato mark pilato is offline
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drugs and the process - yes or no

Okay, I know this is a hard topic, very private but I feel it must be talked about. I was recently sent a video that a close friend of mine made, a new movie he was working on, wile i watched I was taken, he had captured something really cool, then like a shot in the arm I was jabbed, i watched as my friend pressed a needle to his skin syringe loaded, wile girl in the back ground danced in a blue haze with music swaying. Dam if he made it look cool! I watched and remembered past times hanging out with him and wished I could turn back the clock and talk, and maybe somehow change his course. My friend went to film school in City, wile there he was told by a teacher to experience it all to try everything to be free, otherwise if would not ever be a real artist. .
So what do you say, are drugs okay? I had a friend who could not paint unless he smoked a joint first, he was dam good to, the best in our class, he swore that it made him better, he probably would be an artist today If he would have worked it out, but who am I to say. I have smoked pot, not anymore, I tried mushrooms also. I drink coffee and when friends come over I like my wine. My suggestion would be to never try any mind altering drugs, its not worth loosing what you already have. I only did them after college and for a very short time, enough to know the danger in them, their enticing pull, the way they deceive you in thinking it's all right telling you, your problems are all figured out and to just smoke me because I know the way. For me though, I will take the challenge of the day and let my clear mind guide me to amazing places in the clay.
So what do you say?
Do drugs help, can you create better art when on them do they open your mind exposing a window to the soul?
I know your out there, creating away, so share your stories and lets get this out and on it's way.
all the best,
Mark

Last edited by mark pilato : 10-26-2006 at 06:56 AM.
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  #2  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:38 AM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

All of what is inside you can be accessed naturally through meditation or other non-invasive methods. Drugs force open channels that are otherwise sealing you from some awful stuff for your own protection. The damage they do can be long lasting and negatively affect cognitive skills along with other elements of health. You can also become dependant on the drugs for your stimulation, etc. which leads to a negative situation and harder to get out of the more you do.

Analogy: knocking yourself in the head with a stick in order to see stars. It may work, and you may be able to do it for a while. Then you'll be a mess.

It was not the joint that made your friend a good artist. If he could not paint without it, what does that say about him? The talent is latent, why does he need a chemical to access the talent? Is he that weak of a person without it?

I believe great art requires discipline and dedication. Drugs are the opposite of that. Part of the equation is the misapprehension while under the influence of drugs that the drug-induced work is profound and full of insights. While possible, more often the effects are not quite so profound when experienced by a sober mind.

How about we build civilization instead of tearing it down? The miracle of our own bodies and minds are full of great things and fruit for wonderful art without the need to destroy ourselves or others in order to access them.

Thank you Mark, for bringing up this topic.

GlennT
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  #3  
Old 10-25-2006, 11:58 AM
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HappySculpting HappySculpting is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

I don't have first hand experience with this as I've never taken drugs or even gotten drunk (have a glass of wine once in big while and beer tastes like pee to me and I get goose bumps with one swallow!) So I'm pretty green behind the ears on knowing the effects.

I've had a recurring dream since I was young that I'm looking for a cigarette on the ground so that I can pick it up and smoke. And then finally I'll get it and smoke and I'm so relaxed.(Guess I wanted to experiment and my subconscious is doing it for me.) Relaxation- can it benefit the sculptor? Perhaps drugs like marijuana would relax the mind and bod and help one sculpt. But.... I never would advocate any drug use with all the adverse side effects.

Of course, can figure other ways to relax: good cup of hot chocolate and hot bath. Good exercise. Stretching and meditation. Being healthy is a contributor to good art. Drugs deplete body of nutrients and eventually drag it down, which in the long run will hurt the artistic spirit.
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  #4  
Old 10-25-2006, 12:03 PM
anatomist1 anatomist1 is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Drugs are a the proverbial double-edged sword. Contrary to our society's puritanical dogma, I think most have some kind of mind-opening, positive potential. The problem is that most of that value comes at the beginning, when you are first experimenting with the drug. Then, depending on which drug, you start to develop a tolerance then dependence. As time goes on, the good, expansive qualities of the drug you experienced at first shrink, and the bad parts grow. At some point, there is nothing left but bad stuff. If you have any sanity, that's your last opportunity to disembark. Depending on how physically or psychologically addictive the drug is, many find they have to get to this point to quit. If you stick with a drug beyond that point, you are merely irrationally destroying yourself. Then, of course, depending upon how dangerous the drug is, you may have already mostly or completely destroyed yourself before that point, due to overdose, cumulative damage, accident while impared, disease, etc...

I think what is missing in most dialogues is a frank admission of the above, to start with. "Drugs" can be fun and they can enhance your life, which is rarely admitted. Not admitting that as part of prohibitive messages destroys the credibility of the messenger, as anyone who actually tries the drug realizes they have been lied to.

The other thing that is missing is honest, separate evaluations of "drugs" and their dangers. Right now, we have a situation where the illegality and taboo-ness of drugs is completely irrational, having no relation to the factual dangers. The biggest hazard involved in taking many drugs is the legal hazard, which has been manufactured by the government, and has nothing to do with pharmacology.

For instance, in terms of legal dangers and taboos, somehow marijuana is lumped in with heroin and methamphetamine as "drugs", despite the fact that marijauna is probably more akin to caffiene in terms of the dangers of the drug itself, with virtually no reported deaths, and the only serious physical downside being lung damage, which can be avoided if you eat or vaporize it instead of smoking it. On the other hand, having moderate quantities of it and supplying a few friends for their use can send you to prison for many years.

Conversely, tobacco is the single deadliest drug in the country right now, killing nearly half a million people per year. Long before it kills you it destroys your ability to breathe, taste, smell, prematurely ages your skin, and makes many people into such slaves that they can't go for more than an hour without a smoke. Yet tobacco is completely legal and only moderately taboo.

You can go down the list and find many other drugs that are misplaced: steroids, alcohol, lsd and other psychedelics...

So, I ultimately reject the premise of your question, in that you have equivocated shooting heroin and smoking joints as "drugs". I'd say injecting heroin is too dangerous for most people to be messing with. It's a lot more likely to ruin one's life than help one's art. Marijuana, on the other hand, is relatively harmless, and most people should probably try it. I've done it, and alcohol, to varying degrees for about 20 years. I still find occasional pot use very useful for art, in terms of shifting perspective and generating ideas. Chronic use, on the other hand, just makes me depressed and is counterproductive. With alcohol, I'm very close to the point where it is all negative for me. I limit drinking to one time per week, and the quantities keep going down.
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  #5  
Old 10-25-2006, 01:19 PM
Thatch Thatch is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Glenn, do you ever drink coffee?


Thatch
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  #6  
Old 10-25-2006, 01:41 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thatch
Glenn, do you ever drink coffee?


Thatch
Not sure why that is relevant to the conversation.

Nevertheless, to satisfy curiosity if nothing else, I drank it to stay awake in my 20's. When I tried a macrobiotic diet in my 30's it cleansed me to the extent that I was not so sluggish and did not need the coffee.

Now I do not drink coffee because, aside from its negative effects on the adreanal glands, it makes me jumpy and I need calm fingers to do my artwork.

GlennT
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  #7  
Old 10-25-2006, 02:06 PM
Thatch Thatch is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

It is relevent because it is a popular drug. I use coffee maybe once or twice a week. I also like Ginkgo Biloba and have my own tree I use to make tinture with. Both are quite powerfull. I don't use them to excess. They help me focus. I can easily imagine someone smoking pot for the same reason, though I hope they don't use power tools when doing it.

It is nice to hear that you are living clean. I was just curious if you are, or ever were using drugs. The answer to that is yes, and if you were using it as more than just a mild stimulant, to stay awake for instance, then you were a drug abuser. It is all a matter of degree. Caffiene is a stimulant, it is addictive and can be harmfull. The fact that you can get it most places and that most people indulge does not change that.

Other natural drugs that I like are hawthorn, suma, maca, ginseng, royal jelly, gotu kola and wine.

Thatch
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  #8  
Old 10-25-2006, 04:15 PM
cooljamesx1 cooljamesx1 is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

coffe has been shown to prevent alzheimers disease. just because drugs stimmulate doesn't make them bad for you. but then again a lot of drugs do have harmful effects. my 2 cents.
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  #9  
Old 10-25-2006, 05:28 PM
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HorseModels HorseModels is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljamesx1
coffe has been shown to prevent alzheimers disease. just because drugs stimmulate doesn't make them bad for you. but then again a lot of drugs do have harmful effects. my 2 cents.
Yes, James, I had heard that recently also about coffee. I drink decaf coffee and tea because I enjoy the taste of them. The caffeine in them makes me jumpy, so I try to stay away from caffeine in general. I have never smoked cigarettes because I am allergic to the smoke. My parents smoked for many years and the health issues I deal with today are attributed to being around second-hand smoke growing up as a child. I tried alcohol in my early twenties, but did not like the effects of it. They don't use the terms "young and foolish" or "young and stupid" for nothing! When I was 23, I married an alcoholic. He was an abusive alcoholic and he destroyed much of my youth and faith in people by the abuse I suffered from his alcoholic binges. I eventually had enough after 7 1/2 years of marriage and divorced him. Since that time, I have experienced only four occasions where I had a very small amount of alcohol (for special occasions). My husband does not drink and didn't want me to drink either, so I gave it up. My life has been full and exciting and I have not missed anything due to a drug-induced stupor. I do not need to use drugs or alcohol to be free to create. I have personally witnessed people who have ruined their lives due to the mindset of thinking their lives would be more productive with drugs and/or alcohol. I believe that a healthy mind, body and spirit will help me to feel free to create better artwork. If I am constantly dealing with health issues, I cannot focus on my art.
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  #10  
Old 10-25-2006, 06:12 PM
cooljamesx1 cooljamesx1 is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

gosh horsemodels, it sounds like you've had some bad expiriences. Alcohol is one of the most prolific of drugs today, but it seems different than other drugs in that it can change a person's overall personality. Alcohol is a depressant, and when consumed regularly actually reduces the amount of hormones in your brain that make you happy. I've seen people who start to drink regularly change completely from who the were before. I've seen people get really depressed for months before they stop drinking. luckily, I haven't expirienced anyone with a severe drinking problem like you describe, but I have seen the destructive force of alcohol. I would rate alcohol as one of the more dangerous of drugs commonly consumed. as far as alcohol and art, I don't think you could do much stinking drunk, but if it can be taken in moderation, maybe it can loosen people up and help them. but as said above, I beleive there's other ways to do that.
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  #11  
Old 10-25-2006, 06:15 PM
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obseq obseq is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

This question really shouldn't have a pejorative premise.

We're not discussing the ramifications of some nefarious drug-induced societal collapse here--
The focus, I believe, was the individual creative process in conjunction with mind-altering substances, and not its effects on any combination of body/propriety/mind/society/relationships/home.

If using drugs makes you happy and as a result more productive, then simply continue to do what makes you happy. Likewise, if not using drugs makes you happy and more productive, then continue in the same manner.

Last edited by obseq : 10-26-2006 at 01:01 AM.
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  #12  
Old 10-25-2006, 06:44 PM
Thatch Thatch is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

If you drink too much water it will kill you. Everything in moderation. I just wanted to point out that many who might look down on people who use something like marijuana in moderation or occasionally drink alcohol have often themselves used and even abused drugs, usually without being aware of it.(and no I am not pointing fingers at anybody. I asked Glenn if he drank coffee because we all know he is as straight as an arrow) How about Coca Cola? Sugar can and is used as a drug. Ever go to an action movie and buy a big soft drink and some candy? Caffiene, sugar and visual stimulation, quite the combination and completely accepted. Drug use in one form or another is around us all the time. People who have eating abnormalities use food like a drug. Many are hooked on prescription medications or don't take them properly. I don't smoke pot to get inspired about art but if someone else does it doesn't bother me in the least. Nor should it you. The extent of my drug use when sculpting is coffee and if it is going to be strenuous I will sometimes take ginseng and or maca so that I can rebound faster. People tend to do what works for them.

Thatch
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  #13  
Old 10-25-2006, 07:14 PM
ironman ironman is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Hi, Having drank, smoked, snorted and popped various and assorted things over the course of my 60 yrs, I would say that NONE of them help the creative process.
When working under the influence, your judgement is impaired.
In the morning, while still sober, viewing what you did the day before while SUI (Sculpting Under the Influence) you will find that what you thought was great art yesterday, is absolute crap today.
The only thing that you might consider some kind of drug (I don't) that I take is coffee.
I know that my art has gotten better since I became sober.
Have a great day,
Jeff
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Old 10-25-2006, 07:59 PM
JamesW JamesW is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Interesting thread..
'Drugs' are psycho-active substances, that is, they change the way we think and/or feel. Humans have been using them since time began because many of us find they have a positive effect. Prescription medication such as antidepressants & anti-anxiety agents, caffiene, heroin, cannabis, tobacco, alcohol etc are all 'drugs' therefore I imagine that there are few of us here who have never used a 'drug' in their lifetime. Sweeping statements about the detrimental effects of all drugs are unhelpful (and really rather silly). There is a continuum of use of all drugs from abstinence, experimentation, through occassional or social use to misuse & dependence. Some people use heroin socially while others become addicted to prescribed medication such as valium - its about the person not the drug.
We come to grief when we become dependant upon a drug to enable us to feel good, comfortable, energised, relaxed or creative. We use the drug so often that we develop a tolerance & need more & more to get the effect we are after until it no longer works in fact we just feel sick without it (withdrawal).

And here I'll finally get to the point - some artists may use drugs to aid their creative processes thats no big deal (infact I believe that it is a fundamental human right to do with our bodies as we see fit). Where we as artists can come to harm is when we become dependent upon our particular drug (sadly we can all think of numerous examples).
Personally, I've tried a few things over the years but nowdays I don't drink coffee (caffiene makes me jittery), don't like cigarettes, occasional pot every couple of months, quite like wine with a meal and enjoy a beer on a sunny afternoon. I prefer to remain clear headed while working as I'm a better problem solver in that state and also more industrious.That being said sometimes I find pot useful when conceptualising work.
Its just a personal choice of what works for you.
James
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Old 10-25-2006, 08:54 PM
jim jim is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

This is the police your under arrest!!!
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:12 PM
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

I drink jo in the morning. It gets me wound up and ready to get into the flow and energized for the strenuous carving tasks of the day. I don't take any performance enhancing drugs, unless prozac and mirtazapine (anti-depressants) could be construed as such. Many years of struggling with depression and only using natural alternatives (strict workouts and running regemines, along with diet and herbs) didn't do it. I finally gave in to the pharmacuetical alternative 5 years ago, and a little tweaking of the dosage and type of drug along the way have me where I can function normally. That and 5 years of psychotherapy, and marrying a psychologist just about covered all my bases. Now I know I'm crazy, but I don't care and I can work 10 hour days, and still have bars on my energy meter. I can honestly say that I wouldn't be an artist now if I hadn't gone through this transition and found the right drugs to balance a legitimate chemical quandry.
Answer: Yes I think that drugs can influence the creative process, but not the more recreational types. I agree with Anatomist that ultimately they will fail and leave you a victim of their incidious demize.

Mark
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Old 10-25-2006, 10:46 PM
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Drugs and sex and rock and roll

as far back as the archaeological record can take us, people have been creating substances for mind bending or inebriation----it seems that the beer ration for the pyramid builders was about 4-6 liters/day, until the mini ice age, wine was the common drink of nothern europe, then the vines failed in the cold, and beer and whiskey became the norm------America's first name was Vineland----pastures of plenty
maybe the return cargo to Greenland was wine--- hallucinogens are common through out the world---in the Americas, there must be at least 1/2 dozen different hallucinogenic cacti, and also, the leaves, bark or roots of other plants are a common alternate.......
as an anthropologist, i gotta weigh in on drugs being a constant in humanity.

so then---does it help or hurt the art or have no effect? quien sabe-

for many americans the real debilitating drug of choice is the TV----long ago, i met a biker who said-"we're like brudders man, we wuz raised by the same television"---I know people who crank the tv the minute they walk in the door, and keep it on as long as they're awake---if they miss an episode of their favorite soap, they have a sad constant feeling that they've missed something really important---that damned tube produces alpha(relaxation) brain waves and lulls it's victims into a false sense of well-being---

I’ve heard the argument that the only reason drugs are illegal is to satisfy the legal and prison lobbies----we have a higher percentage of our population behind bars than any other country in the world, and over 1/2 of the incarcerated are there for drug charges.----
I do not know the debilitating effects of the forbidden substances, but suspect them to be no more dangerous than the proliferation of prescription drugs... Ritalin is an example, it changes brain wave patterns in ways that are not understood, and do not change back to the pre-drug state after years of being off the drug---i have read that cocaine produces similar irreversible changes

I cannot imagine doing drugs to increase productivity or improve the art, but that’s just me. I think that different people get different benefits and have different problems with the same substances.
I am fond of my whiskey, and beer, and like the occasional coffee and ouzo(my late father-in-law---called that mixture “death in the afternoon”)----never to excess(my grandfather had a problem with the long term debilitating effects of alcohol---a late uncle said that “the old man was always muleheaded, but in his later years, he lost the edge of his intellect, and his stubbornness became somewhat irrational.)----so never to excess

Bottom line
Drugs?
Sex?
Rock’n’roll?
Chocolate?
Tobacco?
Coffee?
Fat back and pickled pigs knuckles?
Hot sweet German wine of a winter’s eve?

Count me in after the workday's done
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Old 10-26-2006, 12:23 AM
anatomist1 anatomist1 is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman
Hi, Having drank, smoked, snorted and popped various and assorted things over the course of my 60 yrs, I would say that NONE of them help the creative process.
When working under the influence, your judgement is impaired.
In the morning, while still sober, viewing what you did the day before while SUI (Sculpting Under the Influence) you will find that what you thought was great art yesterday, is absolute crap today.
Actually, according to the professor that taught me Japanese art history, many of what are considered the greatest Chinese and Japanese paintings were painted while drunk. I don't remember the exact period or duration, but for some time, painting under the influence of alcohol was considered the way to do it. Many of these paintings even have "painted while drunk" written on them, along with the painter's name.

Most of what I do now sculpturally is too dangerous to consider doing while intoxicated, but I used to model plasticene under the influence of alcohol and pot. More recently, I have done good design and editing work on Photoshop under the influence.. Unlike your account, I have seldom if ever found anything wrong with the work the next day, and in the long run can tell no difference between work done intoxicated or not intoxicated.

Back when I used to play classical guitar, I could interpret pieces much better while high - a fact that I proved by making comparable cassette recordings. However, I had to tune the guitar prior to getting high, or it would take me so long to tune it that the high would be worn off before I got around to playing. Life is not so simplistic. There are both positives and negatives.

***

Good job, Sculptor, for pointing out that the urge to get intoxicated, and the practice of doing so, is a perfectly natural part of being human, and not the boogeyman. Anthropologically speaking, the kind of narrow, judgemental conservatism about it preached by the likes of GlennT is far more of an anomaly in human history. Many americans are unaware of this because this puritanical attitude has been popular for many decades, and inflamed by demagogues for political purposes in the last few... People seem to forget that the 'war on drugs' was pretext for the first wave of assault on our constitutional rights, now that it has been replaced by 'terrorism' and an even worse assault. They also seem unconcerned that non-violent drug offenders make up half our prison population (the highest per-capita imprisonment of any industrialized country), now that we have moved on to torture, secret prisons, and wiping out habeas corpus altogether. Beware authoritarianism in whatever guise.
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Old 10-26-2006, 05:57 AM
furby furby is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

You can't make better art while under the influence of a mind altering drug. You will make worse art, if the drug is any good. You may think you are making great leaps but in the cold light of day its "WTF??" It looks like garbage.

Cos being off your face severely enough means that the drug experience itself is bigger than any art experience. And so whats going to lose?

Putting coffee/cigs in as drugs is stupid, cos what with most of us using coffee every day of the week you can pretty much call it being acclimatized, and not to mention coffee or cigs do not affect a person to any great extent. i think what we're talking about in the first instance is injectable/edible/smokable mind altering drugs & nothing less. Otherwise you may as well go blame pollution & the baby up the road crying. Yes they may affect you, or aggravate the hell out of you, but for G-d's sake have some self discipline & get on with your ART!

YMMV.
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Old 10-26-2006, 07:20 AM
Tlouis Tlouis is offline
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Talking Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

I took furby's advice when I wanted to buy a digital camera, and I think he's right on the money with this post, too.

Taking drugs for reasons other than medicinal/health reasons is stupid. And all the clever pseudo-physchological justification clap trap in some of these posts is lamentable.

Grow up. Stop putting money into the hands of the drug lords/terrorists. Put it into funding children's causes ie: hospitals, schools, meals for indigent kids.

Have a sculpture rich, DRUG FREE day. Lou
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Old 10-26-2006, 08:20 AM
mark pilato mark pilato is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

very cool stuff here, all of it, I think it's important to understand that a large percentage of people reading this thread do drugs in some way or another, some for medical reasons some because of addiction and for fun. Some may be experimenting and finding that there hardships are melting away every time they try them. Well if you have done them and do them you know this is the hook. Yea when you smoke pot it feels pretty good and you can forget what ales you. I have been sculpting since I was nine years old never stopping, my art is story book of my life. The time i was smoking I felt like i was creating my best work, not knowing that at the same time I was loosing what made it great, my self. during this time my work only scratched the surface of what I was capable of. Okay, I know some of you smoke and maybe your high right now getting ready to start your day, to hit the studio and create in bliss filled state. But I ask you does it not take twice the time to find what you are looking for, don't you find that for every road there are 10 paths that will lead you further away from your meeting place? At the end of the day do you feel great? Are you ready to be with the ones you love, to talk, have fun and find inspiration in a drug free zone? Remember when a sunset was a sunset and fun was fun plain and simple? Remember when you could go to the store and talk with people, neighbors and friends? I could go on, couldn't I? I have a challenge for you. Put down the pipe, for just for a day, and a day every time you get the urge, get the twinge or the itch - draw, sculpt, cry if you have to, soon it will be a week and then a month - soon standing, free to be, a childhood sunset and the world at your finger tips.
again sorry about spelling, i am dyslexic so this stuff is hard for me.
all the best,
Mark
http://www.pilatostudios.com
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  #22  
Old 10-26-2006, 09:25 AM
G. Murdoch G. Murdoch is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Once upon a time I had dreams, goals, plans, relationships, and respnsibilities, and I liked getting loaded. I drank like a fish, ate mushrooms, and smoked bales of weed.

I agree with Anatomist. My experience was that mind and mood altering substances were fun and enlightening, with few negative consequenses. As time passed however, the compulsion to get loaded superceded all else, and I became a stone cold drunk and a dope fiend, drinking the rent, abandoning all responsibilities, and ruining relationships, and derailing promising careers in both art & medicine. I wrecked my life with drugs.

I have been clean and sober now for over 3 years, have no need to ingest anything stronger than coffee & smokes, and am slowly mending this broken life back together.

As far as drugs and art are concerned, I made beautiful things while intoxicated, and I make beautiful things now. The primary difference is that with a clear mind I have a shot at making a living as an artist. The ability to charm clients, follow through with writing proposals and contracts, procure stone and tools for big works, etc...These are things that I couldn't do back in the day.

Graham
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  #23  
Old 10-26-2006, 09:36 AM
ironman ironman is offline
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Location: Silver City, New Mexico
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Hi, Right on, Sculptor! TV is the worst thing that's ever happened to this country. Here we have an invention that could and occasionally does have great benefits to mankind, but is usually filled with inane BS not worthy of even being broadcast. These so-called creative minds behind some of these shows should be horsewhipped!
I like your "brudders" story.
The discovery and use of mind altering substances seem to go hand in hand with human history.
Anatomist1, I never heard that about the oriental artists being drunk. That's interesting, and actually most of my best poetry was written while drunk, but I had to rewrite or edit it while sober, that's if I could even read what I wrote.
Sort of like your "tuning your guitar story", which made me laugh.
Tlouis, I like what you wrote, but "grow up", WHY? You've gotta be kidding!
Have a great day and whatever you do, don't invite Jim from Minnesta to your party,
Jeff
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  #24  
Old 10-26-2006, 09:37 AM
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desertrock desertrock is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 880
Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

[quote=anatomist1]
***
Anthropologically speaking, the kind of narrow, judgemental conservatism about it preached by the likes of GlennT is far more of an anomaly in human history.



Frankly, I like GlennT and find his remarks interesting. This remark about him would be best described as passive-aggressive and irrelevant to the topic.
If you want to blast someone, send them a private message. Be a man about it, instead of undermining the spirit of camaraderie on this forum with back stabbing. Congratulations anatomist1, you've just earned a spot on my ignore list.

Mark

Last edited by desertrock : 10-26-2006 at 10:15 AM.
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  #25  
Old 10-26-2006, 09:47 AM
ironman ironman is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Hi, Graham, Good for you! Congratulations for achieving the 3 year mark. Since you are clean and sober, you haven't yet ruined your life, maybe just a portion of it. Just think of ALL the people who never realize or achieve that sobriety that you now cherish. Thank God for what you have left and make the most of it, which is something I think you'll do.
Have a great day,
Jeff
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