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  #76  
Old 09-17-2010, 09:20 AM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Ah, then we do agree even there, e. Because conforming one's sculpture to their room is the logical thing, but letting the vision and its realization trump the perceived physical limitations is the wise thing!
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  #77  
Old 09-18-2010, 05:51 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

A very curious topic. It seems like thinking you have talent is a prerequisite or "ticket" so to speak to create as an "artist". There are certainly degrees of talent and talent is somewhat of a judgement call on the part of the people proclaiming someone has talent. To tell yourself you have talent is like saying I am an artist, I am creative, I have talent... from our internal view of self it is saying " I have the credentials, and I am putting myself in the game". I don't think if you believe what I am saying that talent can be overrated, the artist must think they have talent. The ability to have the confidence to work ideas and physically endure the hardship of creativity requires that one believes they have talent and can grow that talent. There are tons of examples in the visual arts of the public proclaiming someone does not have talent and later proclaiming they were a genius and incredibly talented. So..... who should one trust the public or ones self? The proclamation either way cannot be overrated in my opinion.
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  #78  
Old 09-18-2010, 06:11 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

My problem is that it is not relevant whether any perceived "talent" is involved. The confidence that fuels a real creative act is the result of hope, imagination, vision and durability that was NOT validated by the usual EXTERIOR assessments that critique our efforts ONLY by how well they participate in the collective aesthetic (the inferior one). One might say a fixer of watches, a basketbal player or a surgeon is "talented", as predispositions of personality or physiology permitted them to achieve as they are compared to other folks. But the rigors of interior aesthetics, those unburdened (by function) sensibilities and the ensuing pained activity, require NO validation...no stamp of approval...stamp of "talent".

Last edited by evaldart : 09-18-2010 at 12:12 PM.
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  #79  
Old 09-18-2010, 08:07 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

The sports analogy is good. Here is a further example:

Last week my soccer team won 9-1. I personally could be described as talented in regards to my skills as a defender. During one play when I had the ball by my own goal area and needed to clear it out, pressure was coming from an opponent. Based on the direction he was coming from, with over-confidence I passed the ball across my own goal mouth to a defender on the opposite side, which one should rarely do anyways. My pass was too soft and the opponent was able to get to it before my teammate, and had a great scoring opportunity which he subsequently blew, fortunately for me.

All the talent that I brought to the table did not prevent me from making a bone-headed play. And I have had games where I have made several poorly delivered passes, and I'm generally really good at them. Furthermore, even though we were laughing about it, after the game it was the bad play my teamate reminded me of, and not all the other good plays that I had made in the game. That was just to help drive home the point to make a better pass if I'm going to risk that type of play.

So, you can have your fill of talent, but it is no guarantee of doing things well or successfully. You have to be engaged fully with the moment and not let your thoughts, feelings, or other distractions keep you from bringing out the best of what that moment requires.
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  #80  
Old 09-20-2010, 08:25 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

(But the rigors of interior aesthetics, those unburdened (by function) sensibilities and the ensuing pained activity, require NO validation...no stamp of approval...stamp of "talent".)

Rigorous indeed. So does an artist simply create to realize in the external world a vision inside that cannot quite be seen only or is there an element of wanting to be heard in the real world and recognized as being talented?
Or, is the motivation simply based on the individual artist... because if so talent is entirely unimportant.
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  #81  
Old 09-20-2010, 10:08 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

I can best answer you from my own perspective.

My motivation is that the visons that I have are beautiful and wonderful beyond my capacity to fully realize, and I would like to share that experience with others through my art. In order to accomplish that, I need to become the best artist I can be so that my lack (of talent, or whatever) does not get in the way of effective communication. So my drive, hard work, study, etc. is all a means to become a better communicator of the visions and ideas.

The recognition, etc. is just a means to help find the support, financial and otherwise, needed in this world to help accomplish the above.
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  #82  
Old 09-20-2010, 11:16 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

You know, there's something almost romantic sounding about being an artist they way you guys talk about it. Romantic in all its soft focus meanings.
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  #83  
Old 09-21-2010, 07:55 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Glenn
I feel the same way, so yes for me talent is over rated. Joe, speaking for my self I am incurably romantic but real... making sculpture an ideal medium. The nicest most interesting people I have met have been sculptors! The medium seems to attract an interesting group!!! Talent shmalent who cares!!
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  #84  
Old 09-21-2010, 09:02 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

I get the feeling that this entire thread is a bogus argument. Why, I recall years ago StevenW saying he'd trade his left testicle or something to be a genius in something(or something like that). I guess being engaged now his priorities have changed. Great talent, great any thing is great.
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  #85  
Old 09-21-2010, 11:22 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Being "great" or "talented" or a "genius" is ALL just name-calling. A smart lazy-ass can fool anyone into thinking they are one of those. But those assessments dont mean a damned thing as to whether or not an individual is actually advancing itself or not.

Not it is NOT obvious at all when someone "excels" at administering their creativity. Nobody can REALLY tell whether or not any pertinence is occurring just by looking at (or generally experiencing) a created product.

We all have it in us (not just the self-professed "artists") to make ourselve authentic by the dirty work of entering into an episode of UNrequired and UNnecessary and useless travail; but most folks wish to do no more travail than it takes to perceive themselves as flourishing (or at least sustaining). Those individuals even below that neednt worry because we are a species that nurtures exactly as many folks at it destroys. Thank human nature for that.

The elevated will endure that 87.7% of the unavoidable and then IMPROVE by the 12.3%...the special slots where being is actually occurring.
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  #86  
Old 09-21-2010, 12:02 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post

The elevated will endure that 87.7% of the unavoidable and then IMPROVE by the 12.3%...the special slots where being is actually occurring.
evaldart, the CPA of creative endeavor!
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  #87  
Old 09-21-2010, 12:05 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Quote:
Being "great" or "talented" or a "genius" is ALL just name-calling. A smart lazy-ass can fool anyone into thinking they are one of those.
Not my experience, whether its music, science, athletics, architecture, art....

Quote:
evaldart, the CPA of creative endeavor!
Nah, he uses some sort of volt meter connected to ear lobes to measure whether "being is actually occurring". Other wise he'd be fooled 49.7% of the time by "smart lazy-ass" fools.
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  #88  
Old 09-21-2010, 03:44 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
Being "great" or "talented" or a "genius" is ALL just name-calling. A smart lazy-ass can fool anyone into thinking they are one of those.
A talented, smart lazy-ass perhaps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
We all have it in us (not just the self-professed "artists") to make ourselve authentic by the dirty work of entering into an episode of UNrequired and UNnecessary and useless travail; .
uh-oh, E dropped the other "a" word - authentic. I don't see where authenticity is required on any level to make art.

Last edited by cheesepaws : 09-21-2010 at 06:22 PM.
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  #89  
Old 09-21-2010, 08:06 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

You got it backwards Cheese. You dont need authenticity to get to art. But art will get you some authenticity. Are you paying attention?
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  #90  
Old 09-23-2010, 11:45 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Well that's just funny.
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  #91  
Old 09-24-2010, 07:33 PM
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cheesepaws cheesepaws is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
Are you paying attention?
Rarely these days! Just too busy...and tired.

Authentic or artifice? Either works for me - or neither.
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  #92  
Old 09-25-2010, 09:36 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Talent gives rise to images of exceptionalism and quite frankly I think that exceptionalism abounds and is rather normal and normal is boring.
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  #93  
Old 09-25-2010, 02:20 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
I think that exceptionalism abounds and is rather normal and normal is boring.
So exceptional is the new boring.....surely not.
doesn't it just raise the bar a bit?
or do I just need a new word for those things I see that blow me away
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  #94  
Old 09-25-2010, 02:27 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

If it's a contest then yes, it raises the bar.. the first NFL one-handed catch was great, in fact it was awesome but, after seeing thousands of them they tend to lose their luster. Talent also conjures up images of technical prowess, which is terrific if you're into chasing perfection. Awesome, great, terrific, sweet.. Yawn...
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  #95  
Old 09-25-2010, 04:08 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Quote:
Talent gives rise to images of exceptionalism
Quote:
Talent also conjures up images of technical prowess
Quote:
the first NFL one-handed catch was great, in fact it was awesome but, after seeing thousands of them they tend to lose their luster.
This conjures up images of a day when we all say "enough, I can't take this grace and talent anymore". No more sports by able bodies folks without a blind fold, or at least one limb tied to an opposing limb. And require all ball sports to utilize square balls--who says they have to bounce as well as footballs? The winner should be not the one that scores the most points, but those that garner the most laughs!
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  #96  
Old 09-25-2010, 05:34 PM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
The winner should be not the one that scores the most points, but those that garner the most laughs!
A closet athlete waiting for his tailor-made sport to appear!
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  #97  
Old 09-29-2010, 08:35 AM
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Re: Is talent overrated?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
This conjures up images of a day when we all say "enough, I can't take this grace and talent anymore". ...........The winner should be not the one that scores the most points, but those that garner the most laughs!
Yes Joe, one too many Indian heads at the art fair it seems and too many pretty things arranged and composed and photographed "just so". I don't really know if there are any winners and losers, just do'ers and I don't think we're in it to garner laughs, but certainly there's something inside that gets accessed less and less frequently and it ain't "talent".
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  #98  
Old 10-09-2010, 02:38 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
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Re: Is talent overrated?

I ran across this and I think it's inspirational and true…at least in my case. Here is a man who is relentless in his desire and training. I do think no amount of training will put someone who has no talent on top but I also wonder how many truly talented artists out there go nowhere because they can't be bothered learning the skills of their trade.


"your talent is going to fail you if your not skilled"
Will smith

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLN2k0b3g70


G
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  #99  
Old 10-14-2010, 12:03 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Is talent overrated?

Thanks for that link. I noticed it wasn't just talent and skill it was also working very very hard. I believe that is true.
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