Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net  

Go Back  Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net > Sculpture Roundtable Discussions > Sculpture focus topics
User Name
Password
Home Sculpture Community Photo Gallery ISC Sculpture.org Register FAQ Members List Search New posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 05-23-2008, 10:05 PM
chris 71's Avatar
chris 71 chris 71 is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: ont canada
Posts: 1,054
Re: Why these strong opinions?

but i geuss i could ask you grommet what are traditional design principles
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 05-23-2008, 10:07 PM
GlennT's Avatar
GlennT GlennT is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 4,213
Re: Why these strong opinions?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris 71 View Post
i am wondering were is chessepaws
In the kitchen with a cheeseknife, some bread, and some wine?
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 05-24-2008, 06:09 AM
tonofelephant's Avatar
tonofelephant tonofelephant is offline
ISC Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Martinsburg, WV
Posts: 724
Re: Why these strong opinions?

Sorry to be late to the discussion. I agree with Sculptor:
Quote:
I feel that art has a responsibility beyond itself
and that the people currently in the world are alienated enough
so that responsibility of art should be one of uplifting the spirit
and not one of emphasizing the ugliness of the culture and focusing on people who are inherently mean and dishonest.

for me, it matters little if the art is sculpture, painting, or music
modern or classical
if the art embodies beauty, I love it
if it embodies ugliness, i don't
I work hard at trying to make sculptures that uplift. One sculpture that I made that was in reaction to an unplesant event is still unsold. Every time that I look at it it glowers at me.

Carl
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 05-24-2008, 06:26 AM
chris 71's Avatar
chris 71 chris 71 is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: ont canada
Posts: 1,054
Re: Why these strong opinions?

i just wanna ask one more thing maybe what i was after all along if i went to one of theses renown galleries that was showing some of these modern works like say for instance something less bothersome like the umbrealles or say the 600 pound blocks of chocolate and lard and asked the person in charge what makes theses things special enough to be in these places what would they say but i would need them to tell me in a manner that i would understand and not some mumbo jumbo that i would not no what they just said and question weather they did either grommet tried too and thanks for that thats all i was wondering and i figured because it was chesspaws list and he is a teacher he would be the best to do this there iam done now i will not say any more screw it

ps i dont know if the chocolate and lard stuff was done by anyone on the list but its the same diff

Last edited by chris 71 : 05-24-2008 at 06:41 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 05-24-2008, 06:53 AM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,279
Re: Why these strong opinions?

Chris,
Cheesepaws was here & I was hoping he'd SAY something, but perhaps he did not have time, or like me had not had coffee yet. Cheeseman jump in any time ol' educator you.
The galleries are trying to make a living, and sometimes you have to create a stir to get people's attention. marketing, I suppose. That's not to say that those pieces in the gallery aren't valid, but sometimes the regulars would want a shot in the arm, so to speak-- thrill me. Just a guess, really.
The traditional design principles i was referring to are use of space--the object in its space doesn't look like a doodle in the middle of a page or something left in a corner accidentally. They command their area and look appropriate. The composition is pleasing to the eye -- there is an ease about the size and flow of the shapes that looks natural, not jarring or like a mistake. though some of the shapes were "invented" they look like they could exist in nature; the proportions are not too regular to look contrived or too wildly different as to look implausible. ( it is, however, okay to combine disparate elements to create an effect or emotion)

Still nursing that cup of coffee. I hope this starts to answer your question. Just keep asking 'til you get the answers you're looking for.
__________________
Taking my own advice
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 05-24-2008, 01:11 PM
cheesepaws's Avatar
cheesepaws cheesepaws is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,137
Re: Why these strong opinions?

Hey Chris

Sorry again for the delayed response. I am still dealing with a major computer crash. It doesn’t look too hopeful. I probably have lost most of my artwork images – not to mention pictures of my kid, school work, and endless errata that I was saving. As such, I am creaking by with old computers that are cumbersome and a pain to even boot up. Oh, well….lesson learned…back up!

Firstly, being an educator doesn’t mean I know any more than the sculptors who have been responding to your questions. I have my take on the field just like anyone. Likewise, I have my own personal tastes. You shouldn’t feel like you ought to “get” or like anything that doesn’t strike you instinctively. What is great about a forum like this is that you get a collective opinion that is (mostly) well informed and well meaning. It is, however, all opinion. In the end it is each individuals responsibility to process the input or reject it.

Secondly, the career of an artist is specialized. Like any specialization it has a particular and complex history, unique and complicated tools and a formal vocabulary and terminology. Likewise, some of the concepts in art require more than a “simple” explanation. It may sound like “mumbo-jumbo” (and some of it very well may be) but questions about complex ideas sometimes require a willingness to accept complex answers. I know I rarely understand what my Doctor says at first listen. Often it is only after I have researched his “speak” on my own that I fully start to grasp what ails me, why I am being treated a particular way, or how my diagnosis might impact my life. Don’t be put off by the ideas behind a work of art simply because of the language used to describe those ideas.

Art can be embraced and understood on many levels. This can include a level of pure aesthetic pleasure based on materials, form and other compositional devices or a simple reaction to a relatable subject (like the human figure for example). I would put forth that most work can also engage a viewer on other levels such as offering references to cultural or societal concerns, a questioning of identity, or a critique of the very art world that gave birth to the work (among many others).

I like the artists I listed on another thread for a number of reasons. I adore Fritsch for her reductive sculptures that have uncannily dense and engaging surfaces. Her play with formal devices like repetition and reflective symmetry keep my eyes moving while my brain is processing her subject matter – which often has some relationship with commercial production and the relevance of any “unique” object in a world so over populated with “products”. Her forms are exquisite and simply beautiful to stare at regardless of any “message” the work may communicate. Her colors blow me away and her forms leave me haunted. Hawkinson impresses me with his sheer ingenuity. Some of his finest works take the form of complicated and functional machines that are constructed out of bits of literal trash. His work appeals to the boy in me – the one who made crafts long before he made art…the boy who loved the gadgets of Bond, the Avengers and MacGyver… the boy who believed he could build a spacecraft from parts purchased at Radioshack. He addresses many things in his work including a neat way to think of craftsmanship (for while his devices may look shoddy – that they function is a credit to his craft). Hawkinson has also made a good deal of work that draws connections between the figurative and the bodily. What’s the difference?…go look at a Hawkinson and see what his take might be. Charles Ray is a modernist at heart (he studied under Roland Brener – a student of Caro’s) and can be thoroughly enjoyed for formal considerations regardless of their representational subject. The piece you linked to above (Family Romance) is nothing more than an exercise in scale shift. What sculptor doesn’t play with scale? Here it holds a humorous significance. The baby is the same scale as the father – perhaps suggesting that a power hierarchy based on age or gendered is largely imagined. (I know as a father that if I did a scale model of my family meant to represent “value” – I would be the tiniest one in the line up! Kids get all the attention…then wives….). Maybe I am wrong. Perhaps the work is meant to comment on the nuclear family…or on marketing to children as if they were adults…who cares. It offers a substantial number of takes…and that shows a thoughtfulness on the part of the artist that I respect. See if you can find a picture of Ray’s Unpainted Sculpture – probably my favorite sculpture of all time. Seriously. I could go on and on…Antoni and her chocolate cube is hilarious if you think about her ingesting Tony Smith’s minimalist work Die. She is literally eating minimalism! She doesn’t do this as mockery however. Her actions are a tribute to the modernist and minimalist manifestos that proceeded her. Does that matter? No! It is a huge block of chocolate – it engages through sheer volume, through scent, and the implied action of her “carving” this raw block with her teeth. How many stone carvers out there feel like they “eat” their material from time to time.

I could go on and on about the artists I like and why they appeal to me. In the end I find that my own work is in dialogue with theirs - each in different ways. I look to them as a kind of springboard for trying to learn and re-learn how to process my ideas. Also, I don’t like every piece. I would agree with grommet that Fritsch’s Umbrellas are a bit underwhelming. Like some of my favorite bands – I don’t love every song on every album. Some records fit certain times of year or moods – it is no different with my favorite sculptors.

I didn’t even touch on the issue of beauty verses art born out of the “ugly” or the implication that conceptually heavy art is rife with gimmicks…but hopefully I said something that sparks a bit more interest in the artists I listed. I would still love to see more lists – the more I see the more I like.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 05-24-2008, 02:17 PM
Aaron Schroeder's Avatar
Aaron Schroeder Aaron Schroeder is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Shelby, Ohio
Posts: 856
Re: Why these strong opinions?

So my question......is.......have you ever encountered a work of art that at first you really did not like or get or appreciate.....but that over time you came to understand and enventually love? Have you had a strong opinion, just to find that it changed, completely? Have you ever felt some what foolish for making assumptions, jumping to conclusions, only to find that you were wrong or poorly informed or misguided? Has anyone ever played a trick on you and you fell for it ? Are there any topics about which you know little, that you may have doubts about, that may not warrant a strong opinion ?

Considering all the people in the world, all that have been, all that may be, and all the sculptural expressions that they have made, could it be that they made some brilliant work that went right over your head ? Is that a possibility ?

Have you ever been into one thing but then found yourself getting into another ? Have your tastes changed over time, finding yourself liking things that you didn't like before ?

I ask all these questions because I wish to draw attention to the idea of a turning point, that place where one opinion changes to another. Some times a work of art can be the catalyst that pushes one over the edge into a different state of mind. That work of art may not even exhibit levels of quality that one would consider great or good or well done, yet something about that work of art speaks to you and carries an extra bit of meaning that some how changes your mind about one topic or another. Maybe this has never happened to you, maybe your opinions and point of view is truelly fixed, unchanging and solid as a rock. Perhaps you will never feel the doppler effect of an opinion shift. Perhaps you are the one single person with all the answers, the total authority on everthing. Perhaps we can look to you for the ultimate, perfect sculpture......that puts an end to the feeble sculptural endeavors of all others.

GlennT......before you think that this post is directed towards you in particular......I should say that it is not. In my mind you are an open minded man who does good work and who has the best of intentions, I value your opinion/s as strong as they are........Instead, this post is directed at a general audience, the people who are having a hard time finding value in art works that they find difficult to swallow. Many of us have encountered art that challenges our beliefs, values and sense of good taste, yet, over time and after some thought and struggle we find that the vision of questionable artists' enrich our lives and benefit our development as individuals.

Art, points to a bigger picture.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 05-24-2008, 02:28 PM
chris 71's Avatar
chris 71 chris 71 is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: ont canada
Posts: 1,054
Re: Why these strong opinions?

thanks cheesepaws your explaining the strange maniquins has me seeing them in a different way then before. i still dont like them but i can see that there can be more than meets the eye in a lot of these works. and its not up to you or anybody to tell me what or why they are. i have to figure this out on my own i guess. i am sorry if i have been obnoxious to you or anybody elles. what you have told me about the maniquins. and how there scale could suggest a power hierarchy based on age or gendered is largely imagined. did someone tell you this or did you read it somewhere or is this your personal interpertation of them. i think it makes sence but it is something i would have never thought of . when someone goes to see sculptures like this in a gallery does the artist or someone offer ideas like this as to what a particular piece is. or are you left to your own to figure out what they mean to yourself if anything at all. i actully really like the idea that a sculpture really does not have to be anything for any reason as well as haveing one. thanks for taking time to try and comunacate a little with me chris.
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 05-24-2008, 02:40 PM
chris 71's Avatar
chris 71 chris 71 is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: ont canada
Posts: 1,054
Re: Why these strong opinions?

Aaron i did not see you post before i posted mine you are much faster typer than me. i hope that after you read my last post you can see that i am really just trying to learn. i know i can be a bit of a dummy sometimes just in case it was me that influenced your post which i think is a great post full of good insight and i agree with you people can change with a little education i know i can chris
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 05-24-2008, 02:49 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eugene Oregon
Posts: 502
Re: Why these strong opinions?

I am of the opinion that movements in art were primarily created by the gallery industry as a means to establish a "market" in a particular style or artist.....Once a movement is established it is protected by the same group largely to ensure the value of the collections they sell to...This aside it's fortunate that high degrees technical skill, inspiration and hard work will never go in or out of "fashion". i.e there will always be a receptive audience for great works of art.....no matter what.

In the end there really is no reason why any artist can't create whatever they want...without resorting to name calling or using the old Wheeze "your too stupid to understand it".....selling is another matter entirely. I hope for a future where there are no fads but rather artists doing what artists do best ...talking to us with visual images
G
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 05-25-2008, 08:58 AM
rderr.com's Avatar
rderr.com rderr.com is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Houston, Texas/Cuidad del Carmen, Campeche, Mexico
Posts: 832
Re: Why these strong opinions?

<<...talking to us with visual images
G>>


It is in the end about, "What we have here is a failure to ""Talk""."CHL

If the object speaks only to itself and creator then it is self referential and not a "word". If on the other hand it speaks to itself, creator, others of its kind, and an audience, it is a "word". Or perhaps a whole novel. Sometimes comes along someone who creates a new "word" that passes into the language. Those who use it afterwards to carry the conversation forward are to be applauded and will eventualy give rise to an other "word".

Robert Derr
Art is sacred and provocative.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Sculpture Community, Sculpture.net
International Sculpture Center, Sculpture.org
vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Russ RuBert