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  #76  
Old 08-25-2006, 12:04 PM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

These are nice works, Mark. Are they at the NYC ground zero? Looking at the buildings at the background, I don't quite expect there are ordinary buildings like that at that location.

It is interesting to compare/contrast your emotional reaction/response to 'the war', and that of mine. Yours caused you to create these sculptures called 'Ascent'. Mine caused me to create a sculpture called 'The Descent of Man'. A picture of this has been posted in the Polls thread 'What do ya all look like?'
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  #77  
Old 08-25-2006, 12:59 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

I believe that our responsibility is to be true to our highest self. That may or may not involve responding to war via art. For me, the best response to war that I can provide through my art is to create visions of peace and harmony, so as to turn thoughts away from war and to God and/or spiritual values that are of more lasting worth than war.
One's responsibility as a citizen and their reaction to war or any other circumstance in life may be different. This is a poor analogy, but does a plumber have a responsibility to respond to war while doing his plumbing?
If I have a commission that addresses war in some capacity, then that is when I will apply my thoughts and meditaion on the topic to the art. Otherwise, I will address the topic only if I feel moved to express something that I consider of value.
The topic is complex. I don't know that anyone needs a reminder that war, pain and suffering, destruction, etc are negative experiences. But I think that not enough thought has been given to actual causes of conflict, when if ever is war justified ( would a world run by Hitler be preffered to engaging in war? ) or to the sacrifice that is made by those who put themselves in the middle of such hell in order to defend the lives and freedoms of others.
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  #78  
Old 08-25-2006, 07:03 PM
mark pilato mark pilato is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Hi Merlion - Quote:"These are nice works, Mark. Are they at the NYC ground zero? Looking at the buildings at the background, I don't quite expect there are ordinary buildings like that at that location."

Yes the pictures were taken at Ground 0, from Saint Paul's grave yard across the street from were the towers fell. The one picture shows the grave stones at bottom, they are now at Saint Peters up town - 54th and Lexington across from the Nevelson chapel. Here is another picture of the bishop of New York blessing Ascent plus one of it at Saint Pauls church Ground 0.
all the best,
Mark
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  #79  
Old 08-29-2006, 01:51 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Our responsibilty is to vote. The rest is privilege. If creating something to express your feelings about the war, the men and women who are committed to the duty, or any other idea or feeling you might have about what is taking place, is what you want then exersize your privilege. There is and has been great sacrifice for us to be able to do so.

Thatch
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  #80  
Old 09-11-2006, 11:26 AM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Here is graffiti artist Banksy's response to the Guantanamo Bay camp. The link to the UK's Daily Mail article, and relevant excerpts are given below.

Banksy takes the Mickey with stunt at Disneyland

Graffiti artist Banksy has struck again, this time erecting a life-size sculpture of a Guantanamo Bay inmate at Disneyland.

Families visiting the Los Angeles theme park saw a jarring figure — dressed in an orange jumpsuit with its hands and feet manacled — beside the Rocky Mountain Railroad ride. ....

His Disneyland piece was made out of an inflatable doll with a black hood.

It poked fun at the controversial detention of hundreds of terror suspects at the American naval base in Cuba.

Amnesty International has blasted the prison as a "human rights scandal".

The Disneyland sculpture remained in place for one and a half hours before it was spotted.

The ride was then shut down and the doll removed.
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  #81  
Old 09-12-2006, 11:17 AM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Merlion:

Aside from the term " Graffitti artist " being an oxymoron, was Bansky's point to complain about how those who take joy in mass murder are detained and questioned in order to prevent further attacks on innocent civilians?

Those who call the "abuses" at Guantanomo "torture" have a definition that applies only to American prisons and cheapens the word, as it is three star hotel treatment in comparison to places in Asia, Africa, and Russia that actually do know the meaning of the word.
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  #82  
Old 09-12-2006, 11:35 AM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

GlennT. That was a sculpture related news article that came through, and as usual I posted it. I regret I didn't notice the date was Sept 11. I should not have posted it if I did.
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Last edited by Merlion : 09-12-2006 at 06:58 PM.
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  #83  
Old 09-12-2006, 02:11 PM
Thatch Thatch is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

As long as the prisoners enjoy the rights and privledges as laid out by international law for prisoners of war then it doesn't really matter what anybody thinks.

As to what they might or might not have enjoyed or believed prior to being captured is quite beside the point as to how they should be treated by the US admin. Personal feelings and anniverseries aside, they have nothing to do with the law.

Merlion, thanks for posting that. It was quite a statement. I am sure what is going on in Iraq is troubling your part of the world as much as it does mine. If you don't know already what it means, look up the term "Tarbaby". I think we have a big tarbaby on our hands.

Thatch
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  #84  
Old 09-12-2006, 02:34 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

When Al Qaida, the Taliban, and other terroists decide follow international rules of law, they will be entitled to be treated as prisoners of war when captured. As long as they continue to target and blow up innocent civilians on purpose, dress as civilians, use civilians as human shields, hide their weapons in and shoot from Mosques, they are not entitled to the international rules laid out for prisoners of war, even though the US does tend to extend those rights anyway.

Why are those who are the good and fight to defend freedom more feared by the left than those who want to kill anyone who doesn't conform to their ideology? Has the moral confusion of this age led people to give up distinquishing between good and evil? Are the good who make mistakes on the same moral level as those who want to behead unbelievers, keep women subjugated and hidden away from the public, stone adulterors and cut of the hands of thieves, worship the cult of death and believe that blowing up innocent people entitles them to a reward of the apparently endless supply of virgins that inhabit the next realm?

I realize that politics and religion are hard topics, especially on an art oriented website, but this thread is here, and God help us if we always see the nation that stands for Liberty and opportunity as the enemy, always looking to condemn our mistakes but failing to understand the nature of this war of civilizations.
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  #85  
Old 09-12-2006, 07:09 PM
Thatch Thatch is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

It doesn't matter what rules other people follow, we must follow our own.

Thatch
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  #86  
Old 09-12-2006, 07:31 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

I am reminded of the British whose rule of warfare meant lining up in neat rows in an open field, while the Americans learned to fight like the Indians from under protective cover when needed. America won its freedom.

Civilized nations convene and create rules for certain types of humane treatment within the hell that is war. These rules are arbitrary but work because they are respected by the signitory nations.
Those who are not members of those signitory nations have not earned the right to be covered by those rules, although by the very decencey of civilized nations those rules may still be applied to them. It is a choice, not a given.

When you are facing a ravenous tiger and defending your children, even if you are a vegetarian and animal rights activist, their survival will most likely take precedence over the normal rules of your belief system. You will probably be inclined to shoot the tiger and save the moral judgements for later.

There are laws that come from a moral basis and must be preserved. There is also a bottom line survival instinct that I hope has not been hippy/drugged/pacified out of this generation. It is not always easy finding the balance or the middle way, but in some cases it does seem clear.

Glenn
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  #87  
Old 09-12-2006, 09:32 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

.


Hippies, you have got to be kidding me!


Thatch
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  #88  
Old 09-16-2006, 02:01 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

GlennT

I couldn’t agree more with your statement:

When you are facing a ravenous tiger and defending your children, even if you are a vegetarian and animal rights activist, their survival will most likely take precedence over the normal rules of your belief system. You will probably be inclined to shoot the tiger and save the moral judgments for later.

However, even though we would not consider this person “sane” in our society, the possibility does exist that if you have no children and you are willing to die for what you believe you may be able to kill yourself or allow yourself to be killed for what you believe, sometimes circumstance takes over and you are no longer in control.

So directing the thread from you defending what you have considered as an attack on your culture back to the original question.
I hope you don’t mind me asking you, what do you feel is your responsibility as an artist to this conflict and how would you support/express your feelings with/thorough your art?
Do you feel that you have a responsibility to support/express your feelings with/thorough your art?

Blake
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  #89  
Old 09-17-2006, 12:22 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

Blake:

To answer your question more directly ( I thought I did so a number of posts earlier in this thread ) I do not feel that I have a "responsibility " to respond to war directly through my art. I may or may not have an inspiration or inclination to do so at some point, but not a responsibility.

I think my responsibility to react to war is as a citizen, irrespective of my profession. That could happen in any number of ways and even could include using the venue of art. It could involve such things as prayer for the protection of our troops, and of innocent civilians on either side of a conflict. It could involve letting our troops know that their efforts are appreciated, and that just because the media focuses on every negative aspect in order to present a certain slant on the story, we are aware of and appreciate the efforts made toward rebuilding, protecting, and various unreported elements of heroism that are just a part of "doing their job" in an extremely unpleasant situation.

During WW II American citizens were called upon to actually sacrifice to help towards the war effort. We understood that there was a good reason for fighting evil, and the particular face of it at that time. Even Hollywood lent their talents to support the cause. We are not called upon today to sacrifice much, to the extent that we have the freedom and temerity to trash the efforts of those who put their lives in danger for our defense.

Back to the art question....for me, my art comes from the heart, and if I feel a calling to react to war and express that in my art, there is plenty that I could draw from to do so. I fortunately have the freedom and safety, protected by others, so that I am able to focus on other things that are more important to me than war, such as spirituality and the growth of the human spirit. Also the wonderous beauty of nature. I believe that my "responsibility" is to use my art to add to the advancement of civilization toward a higher plane than what it is currently expressing. If focusing on war can achieve that, fine, but if it just serves to revolve the misery and suffering, than it is a waste of time from my perspective. I respect the rights of others to do so, but I don't have to respect the results. I think in this particular moment in time it takes very little courage to speak out against the war or this administration. It is expected of you if you are a part of the "in" crowd. It is the conformist rebellion with a very ready media waiting to broadcast anything that can hurt us.

As an aside,I feel a bit sorry for those who feel that figurative art is dead. To me that implies that their spirit is dead, because the human form is the vehicle we have been provided to express the nature of spirit in this world. How can the expression of that be tied to one particular age and be insignificant in another?

Regards,
Glenn
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  #90  
Old 09-17-2006, 03:40 PM
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Re: what is our responsibility when it comes to the war?

GlennT
I thank you for your elegant response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT
..for me, my art comes from the heart, and if I feel a calling to react to war and express that in my art, there is plenty that I could draw from to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT
I believe that my "responsibility" is to use my art to add to the advancement of civilization toward a higher plane than what it is currently expressing. If focusing on war can achieve that, fine, but if it just serves to revolve the misery and suffering, than it is a waste of time from my perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT
As an aside,I feel a bit sorry for those who feel that figurative art is dead. To me that implies that their spirit is dead, because the human form is the vehicle we have been provided to express the nature of spirit in this world.
The figure is not dead we are many who are keeping it alive.
And along with the figure, I believe that we need to use our art to pioneer positive change, encourage social engagement and nurture constructive commitment in an attempt to help resolve an issue in a positive manner. This goes for many issues not just war, I just want to make a small difference, I don't know that I will be able to, as you have said "advance civilisation", but I believe that it is my responsibility to try to change things because I have the opportunity, the possibility that my art allows me; a platform from which I can voice my opinion, and this opportunity carries a responsibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT
During WW II American citizens were called upon to actually sacrifice to help towards the war effort. ... Even Hollywood lent their talents to support the cause. We are not called upon today to sacrifice much, .....
I find this a sad truth, that if we are not called upon by a higher authority, then we often feel that it is not our problem and we do nothing about it. I think that we as artists should do something, positive, constructive and move from idea to deed to motivate and precipitate change.

Blake
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