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  #226  
Old 08-11-2008, 01:16 PM
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craigktx craigktx is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

once again we are back to the sides of the street.
again who made this rule?
we as people have always walked the yellow line in the middle of the street.
one side god etc,the other side drugs, mind altering.
we used to use both to get threw are lives.
i don't drink and do art, i just drink when my mind gets to restless to focus.
when we decide to walk on one side or the other then we will never have
a balanced in are life or art.
i will say iam not much for religion so there is a imbalance in my life.
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  #227  
Old 08-11-2008, 02:30 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Quote:
i will say iam not much for religion so there is a imbalance in my life.
Please do not think because you do not follow a traditional religion that you are somehow lacking balance.
If you have a sense of completeness because you are able to view things objectively, have a sense of right and wrong in your life without a rule book, are at peace with your world and able to interact effectively with the rest of the world, appreciate all that you have or hope to have.... etc, etc, why would you think there's an imbalance? Religion is really not the line of demarcation here.

Why do you drink to dull the restlessness? There's a good question. Investigate the restlessness, don't dull it. If you're afraid, give your wallet to a friend. Can't get too far that way on initial indulgences.
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  #228  
Old 08-11-2008, 03:15 PM
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obseq obseq is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Quote:
...something about compassion...

Let one small notion never stray too far from our memories or sensibilities:
The simple act of listening without chiming in with comment or criticism; the willingness to rest, even briefly, in the muck with someone insurmountably surrounded by it can go quite a long way.

...These gestures tend to linger.

Sometimes, it's not enough--
And sometimes, it is enough.

Last edited by obseq : 08-11-2008 at 03:32 PM.
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  #229  
Old 08-11-2008, 03:31 PM
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craigktx craigktx is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
Please do not think because you do not follow a traditional religion that you are somehow lacking balance.
Why do you drink to dull the restlessness?
i just don't have that need for something larger,its just me,myself and i.

when i get restless i want to chase every idea and no ideas. when i drink it seems to bring my unfocused mind back center.
without being centered i question my direction, goals and motivations
or it could be sheer boredom do to not mowing the lawn.:
i don't drink often and only with a set amount of cash so theres a stop point.
pick your poison we all use it in some way even the legal righteous stuff can
be a poison.

the new spell check sure helps now i need a use this word check.
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  #230  
Old 08-11-2008, 03:49 PM
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Blacksun Blacksun is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Joe,

You don't believe in black and white, good vs. evil, right vs. wrong? I can see and appreciate shades of gray, but substance abuse recovery begins with an acknowledgement that what you're doing is wrong. I have a world of compassion for those who suffer through no fault of their own. And I understand their addiction or problem is somehow special and absolves them of responsibility in today's society. But I have no compassion for voluntary addicts. Plenty of compassion for their familys and friends.... And I liked the line about your neighbors were my superiors.... good one...way off base and about 30 levels too low and 20 years in the past, but funny anyway, so let me close with this.... "Sir, I have no superiors, and damn few equals...." If you're wanting to compare lawn sizes, and who knows who, to add validity to your argument(???), well, I never was one to compare equipment in the locker room....thought that was wrong too.
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  #231  
Old 08-11-2008, 04:35 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Well, I've witnessed first-hand the bad things that people do who get dependent on substances. I lived amongst them in cheap-rent studios that no other artist in his right mind would inhabit. While there were indeed plenty of good people in these communities, the users of drugs HAD to become my enemies. They were like opportunistic zombies...waiting to damage a life or property. And if they managed to get hold of a real weapon...shit, could be REAL trouble. I couldn't ever muster any compassion for them.. too busy negotiating methods of keeping them from MAL-affecting my flow. I was bigger, stronger, smarter, faster...NOT their victim...so I survived. But I did indeed become quite calloused against characters who become overtaken by their desire for anebriation. They don't have to whop a person on the head to damage someone...there are indeed passive ways of "consistently substance affected" persons to mess you up.

Now I dont give a damn about church and I definitely drink as much beer as I can get away with, but because I'm exceedingly driven by my art production, which makes all other undertakings and arguements seem so silly (lawns and nieghbors), I cannot afford to cloud my thoughts with great amounts of "compassion". There is a "right" amount of that to be doled-out...and to the "right" people.

And its quite true that a self-perceived altruist is grubbing as much "feelgood" as he can - as selfish an act as any if you ask me.

Last edited by evaldart : 08-11-2008 at 06:37 PM.
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  #232  
Old 08-11-2008, 05:11 PM
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Quote:
but funny anyway, so let me close with this.... "Sir, I have no superiors, and damn few equals...."
Well I'm glad you got a chuckle...that was the intent. I found your posts amusing. I was just probing to see if could dredge up any more humor. And we did find one thing to agree on, that locker room thing.
Quote:
I cannot afford to cloud my thoughts with great amounts of "compassion". There is a "right" amount of that to be doled-out...and to the "right" people.
Quite true Evaldart. With me its not something that I delve in. Its more of a mental filter. Like Marley said, "You have to be someone". People do what they have to do, and sometimes that's too bad. That is what I mean by compassion.
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  #233  
Old 12-11-2008, 03:05 AM
Bret Bret is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

"amusing" indeed
Blacksun thank god the world dose not have to depend on your level of understanding in order to spin.
Listening to you makes me "want" to use, Listening to Joe makes me feel proud to be clean. Im sorry you'll never "get" this and be assured your "compassion" is the last item on earth I want or need, I'd starve to death before I'd accept it.
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  #234  
Old 12-19-2008, 11:13 AM
travelbud838 travelbud838 is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Those whom do drugs and are succesful artists will attribute some of their success to drug use. They usually burn our fast and crash. I think it is pure nonsense that drugs will enhance your creativity.

Ever been to a bar and seen the they guy who drank himself into thinking he was Mike Tyson (in his prime of course) when in reality they were a putrid little whimp? Same concept with drugs. You might "feel" and think your are being more creative by frying your brain, but chances are, you're not. Tapping into creativity does not involve frying brain cells, which all recreational drugs do. Ya, ya, I've heard the crap about how song writers and musicians did their best work while stoned, or high on cocaine, or LSD, but these people could have done the same without the drugs if they wanted to and saved themselves many health problems.

As for myself, I like a good strong cup of coffee before working the stone. But that is it. You can keep your weed, coke, acid and all that other crap. It willsneak up and bite you in the ass eventually.
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  #235  
Old 02-08-2009, 07:03 AM
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Well if I may give my two cents. Drugs and art are a delicate balance that some people can control, and others can't. I know a girl in my high school that is going to be a tattoo artist after we finish school, and she gets some of her best ideas when high on marijuana. I have seen her best work and some of my work from when we were high, and it sometimes looks very appealing and artistic.

Of course, there are always times that you look at the finished product and you think, "Wow, that was the stupidest thing i have ever made." Recently, the fellow artists i know havent been able to keep the balance between drugs and art. Most of their drawings look like scribbles and have no artistic value, even when i ask what the motive behind it was.

I honestly believe that drugs force open your mind if you cannot use natural methods of creation, but only to a certain extent. If you overuse anything, then it will affect you and your art adversely. Drugs are not the answer, but once in a while a temporary solution for an artis's block. I have smoked pot and gotten drunk, but none seem to make a healthy or skillful difference in my art, it only gives me ideas. Besides, If I am sculpting with sharp chisels and hammers, and I am clutzy, AND I have bad luck, being high is just painful.

I reccomend everyone try minor drugs once or twice (marijuana, mushrooms, cocaine (not cocaine if you have an addictive personality though), or even just drinking. It is a nice experience to have under your belt.
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  #236  
Old 11-22-2009, 09:33 AM
mark pilato mark pilato is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Nice, its been a while since i visited this site, im still sculpting away. We all do what we do, our art is like a drug for some of us, some of us smoke weed too let go bringing ourselves out of ourselves and into the form, some drink to unwind, some do other things, when it comes down to it we all are artist creating our art struggling through. I think we all can agree that there is nothing like the high when we are connected in our process our minds clear, souring like birds over mountain tops. I have a facebook page if any of you want to stop by
your friend
-mark
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  #237  
Old 11-25-2009, 06:52 AM
ibmainer ibmainer is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

You can keep your weed, coke, acid and all that other crap. It will sneak up and bite you in the ass eventually.

I think this is true, re: sneaking up and biting you in the ass, however, I do support a person's right to make their own choices (drugs, alcohol, religion, etc) as long as they are not damaging someone else in the process.
Now ask yourself (honestly if you can) if your addictions are hurtful to yourself or others???
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  #238  
Old 11-25-2009, 02:11 PM
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The Forge The Forge is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

My drug of choice is a MIG welder torch in one hand and a piece of raw steel in the other. The 'high' begins building with the first arc and ends well after the last one. Addictive? You bet it is.
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  #239  
Old 12-16-2009, 08:06 AM
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Lady Fingers Lady Fingers is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

I'm an experience junkie and am determined to have as many as i can before i go. I have scars, but I think they're sexy
I also mediate and consider abstinence an important ritual.
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  #240  
Old 12-16-2009, 02:54 PM
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

If drugs or what ever dependent fix you have and there are plenty more than just ingested substances, if these things get in your way and if you have trouble discerning these problems then you should take inventory. I personalty have smoked pot since early college. that freedom discovered in being able to step away from the everyday concerns that reared their ugly heads daily allowed me to look past myself to what larger goals stirred my passions( i cant say if i would have done this with out). there is no denying that drugs can lead you to dangerous places. for me smoking pot can keep a creative process focused and with that i recognize that for me I have to have a clear understanding of goals to accomplish them. I think the important thing here is that if you are hurting yourself then its something to evaluate and possibly take steps to fix. people use drugs thats a fact just as this nation will continue to find a war front and the birds will fly across our skies and small children will ask for a cookie we as humans accept that human nature is natural. to each of us we have our own struggles if smoking pot makes it easier to coop or if having chocolate cake works the same. its only when these things are counterproductive that one needs to question intentions. If you choose to manipulate form and space line and language to illustrate some meaning to be shared with the world all those who receive it hope to trust your intentions . take some responsibility over your goals if you have goals that substance abuse has damaged take notice. whatever your fate is consider what is controlling it. consider how you can best manifest your self to a fate you hope to be . drugs bad drugs good never the same in any instance. two cookies good two cookies bad never the same in any instance. don't judge others if you feel you need to offer help be sure to consider if that help is needed or can be accepted. we dont live forever and success is not measured by anything more than survival(if your God fearing than your fortunate to have defined measure). dont hurt yourself and dont hurt others. take inventory if you do. If you dont then you will not accept help. drugs can provide you with a means for meditation just as you can learn other methods to do so and drugs can erode in the same just a your quest for knowledge can leave you knowing more than is comfortable. Reality will make truth evident just as the impossible might just be possible. I doubt any one here understands the perfect existence what works for you may not work for someone else. I think its obvious to the invested soul. If life has some meaning ,as i believe it dose, than my struggles are just as valid as my successes.
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  #241  
Old 08-16-2010, 11:41 PM
tobias tobias is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

I think I got the munchies!
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  #242  
Old 08-17-2010, 09:34 AM
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jOe~ jOe~ is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

My two favorite posts in this entire thread are the last three, birdjes and Lady Fingers, and Tobias.
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  #243  
Old 08-21-2010, 08:54 AM
ironman ironman is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

As one who has created art while either drunk, stoned or both, my conclusion is that when creating art while in that condition, you only THINK you're making good stuff and when it's seen in the sober light of the next day, you realize how bad it really is.
My best work is done when I'm sober.
Jeff
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  #244  
Old 08-21-2010, 01:31 PM
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jOe~ jOe~ is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Quote:
my conclusion is that when creating art while in that condition, you only THINK you're making good stuff
Tons of posts on this thread. Has any one advocated being drunk or stoned while sculpting? I can't even do anything while on OTC allergy drugs...hate 'em. My favorite and most frequently used drug is caffeine. Ibuprofen is probably second.
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  #245  
Old 10-11-2012, 09:00 PM
mark pilato mark pilato is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

wow its been a long time and many sculptures since i was last here. many years since i posted this and i have grown a lot, both in life and in my sculptures. Drugs in the process, yes or no? i wouldn't even ask this now. Since last posting here i have been on the road, built a studio in New mexico and passed it down to a friend and am now living back east again, sculpting in a studio in nature. I continue to support my family with my art. I have used drugs in the process and sometimes it helps me free my mind so as to find a more peaceful place. I have been on many roads in my life, and when my mind is clear without drugs, when sculpting in the process i have never been higher, or able to reach further. I don't use drugs in the process anymore but when i look back at when i did i feel it was part of bringing me here. When Im sculpting the form invites me in, then the process takes me away into greater understandings. when i was smoking i had fun on the trail but the understandings hardly ever came and when they did i couldn't really remember them and the only proof was in my work, so i was growing very slowly. So I'm not sure about the Yes or No, but i do know for me I cant be a sculptor and do drugs in the process anymore, it doesn't work for me.
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  #246  
Old 02-05-2013, 02:52 PM
negative negative is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

I only know writers who do drugs generally suck. The heavy drinkers generally burn out early.
Then again, the great Basquiat was a heavy drug user, but then yet again, he did burn out fast. Lately, I've started to find his work a little tiresome, probably because, like hip hop, he didn't develop beyond a certain stage.
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  #247  
Old 02-20-2013, 09:50 PM
cougar cougar is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

MMMMMMM, Drugs I suppose it would depend on what type and to what degree. Long ago, long ago for me, I would think not. I think we use many things as vehicles to get somewhere. They aren’t all good for us just as many foods we enjoy, prolonging or shortening our life.
If I where to consider any thing of the sort now it would have to be for medical reasoned. Weed seems to be a miracle drug if you talk to people with cancer about. A guy has cured thousand from malaria in Africa with simple Pool Cleaner, chlorite. Yet we gather money for mosquito nets rather than have these revaluations available to common people. DaVincie once said prove it yourself and if it is true for you than perhaps everyone ales is wrong, (something like that).

Washing colors on canvas, removing stone to find yourself, the work itself is plenty indulgence a life time to unravel. If you don’t feel free with your creativeness than it is a very bad vehicle to start with I think. If you do feel free than may be bad, but not So. The trappings of daily life will not vanish when drug induced and they will emerge/manifest in your work under a different veil. Or perhaps this influence can open a gate way to seeing different. LSD I believe was to short lived in the medical world !
I remember a story on TV, they displayed a hollow mask, as it turned one could not determine whether youi where staring at it from outside or you peering at its concave from inside.
A person on LSD is able to differentiate the two perspectives. They explained that Your brain jumps connections in a totally different manner skipping many safety rules that your mind puts in place at a very early age . . . . . Like perhaps a hard ball cumming at your nose with out prejudging its activity. You could call it bad judgment or perhaps looking at the world with the eyes of a child. Learning often comes with a lot of hurt. Psychologically I think you could rebalanced the way you think for the better, but over all these things would have to take place like your art work should, with much care and thought out proses like the Indians with there Mescal and Ayahuasca not necessary fun stuff for your stomach or the regular worrier, but just a tool for contemplating. Like art for me. I suppose this would take the interest out of getting high. I am definitely not against experimentation . . . . what als is life for ??? But I have people I am responsible for these days. With that said there are many stigmas one needs to brush away to find truth. I don’t think there are any case studies involving death by weed, or drinking Pool water, yet all you have to doe is look in the paper to see yesterdays death from alcohol and tobacco for fun. Ive Never seen an add with Mr Flintstones breaking out a yellow joint, but I have seen him with a big fat stogy cigar and beer. I do love my dark beer. There is no end to creativity.
Very good question I had gotten tired of asking my self.

Last edited by cougar : 02-20-2013 at 10:21 PM.
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  #248  
Old 02-21-2013, 12:40 AM
scrapartoz scrapartoz is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

I cant create when affected by substance. In every case I have had to undo and then redo the work. However............ once I see that I have achieved something that touches me (and hopefully others) THEN substance is the only thing that will allow the mind to shut down and rest.
There is also a "Magic point" when after partaking substance , a person can see errors in their sculpture and "see" previously unseen pathways to improvement of the work

The trick , ............is to recognise this point , remember those internal conversations and NEVER take up the tools until you've had a good nights sleep. works for me
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  #249  
Old 02-21-2013, 01:41 AM
cougar cougar is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Sleep O crap its 2:40 AM !!
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  #250  
Old 02-23-2013, 02:08 AM
cougar cougar is offline
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Re: drugs and the process - yes or no

Money can be an addiction, ” a caricature flaw you could call it.” I like money.

Black and White live hand in hand, as I see it. Judging by the green stuff that our government cant shut down because we neeeed these pillars of men to much ! These guys sit on there porcelain counting there greens while on the other end of the pipe the, "user and abuser"
If I where describing a painting it would be the part on the palate you scrap off and save for the next beautiful master piece . . . its all pail gray to me.
------------------/--------------------------
How to Launder Mexican Drug Money: Be a Large Bank:

On 10 April 2006, a DC-9 jet landed in the port city of Ciudad del Carmen, on the Gulf of Mexico, as the sun was setting. Mexican soldiers, waiting to intercept it, found 128 cases packed with 5.7 tons of cocaine, valued at $100m. But something else – more important and far-reaching – was discovered in the paper trail behind the purchase of the plane by the Sinaloa narco-trafficking cartel.

During a 22-month investigation by agents from the US Drug Enforcement Administration, the Internal Revenue Service and others, it emerged that the cocaine smugglers had bought the plane with money they had laundered through one of the biggest banks in the United States: Wachovia, now part of the giant Wells Fargo.

The authorities uncovered billions of dollars in wire transfers, traveller's cheques and cash shipments through Mexican exchanges into Wachovia accounts. Wachovia was put under immediate investigation for failing to maintain an effective anti-money laundering programme. Of special significance was that the period concerned began in 2004, which coincided with the first escalation of violence along the US-Mexico border that ignited the current drugs war.
================================================== ==

On the morning of March 1, 1995, there was panic on the 17th floor of the Citicorp-Citibank building in New York City. Alarmed Citibank executives read the top story on the front pages of that day’s newspapers: Raúl Salinas de Gortari [brother of former Mexican President Carlos Salinas de Gortari] had been arrested the day before in Mexico. They knew it was only a matter of time before investigators would arrive and begin to ask questions about the deposits made by Raúl Salinas at Citibank.

Around that time, Citibank of New York was transferring Juárez drug cartel money to Uruguay and Argentina, where Mexican drug lord Amado Carrillo Fuentes and his associates went calmly about their business, with help from local politicians and
businessmen. Not long after, investigations would reveal that in 1998-99, more than $300 million belonging to Mexican drug traffickers went through Citibank.
================================================== ==
Oliver North, " I don't Recall " ..... at least Regan had an excuse to say that.

In a July 12, 1985 entry, North noted a call from retired Air Force general Richard Secord in which the two discussed a Honduran arms warehouse from which the contras planned to purchase weapons. (The contras did eventually buy the arms, using money the Reagan administration secretly raised from Saudi Arabia.) According to the notebook, Secord told North that "14 M to finance [the arms in the warehouse] came from drugs."
-------------------------------
On February 10, 1986, Owen ("TC") wrote North (this time as "BG," for "Blood and Guts") regarding a plane being used to carry "humanitarian aid" to the contras that was previously used to transport drugs. The plane belongs to the Miami-based company Vortex, which is run by Michael Palmer, one of the largest marijuana traffickers in the United States. Despite Palmer's long history of drug smuggling, which would soon lead to a Michigan indictment on drug charges, Palmer receives over $300,000.00 from the Nicaraguan Humanitarian Aid Office (NHAO) -- an office overseen by Oliver North, Assistant Secretary of State for Inter-American Affairs Elliott Abrams, and CIA officer Alan Fiers -- to ferry supplies to the contras.
Now senator, Col. Oliver North . . . . Very much a Pro.

We don’t just finance wars we send our children to defend something they believe with faith in there leaders. Sometimes they come back and shoot a hero that’s trying to heal there pain, or they wake from a nightmare and strangle there loving wife to death who put up with there lack of character strength for so long. It is very joyous to see what drugs will do for some people but, very sad
to see what drugs can do for others. Some people are dirty on the inside, others on the outside and some don’t know the difference. Perhaps the in-difference is really the gray part. Life is a drug if you are not careful, don't hang on to tight or you may recycle what you didn't learn the time before. I'm just saying its hard to leave something if you love it to much, step back so you can see that part of your work.
.................... Just got to say, I feel your pain Bret. not saying your right or wrong just saying.
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