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  #251  
Old 06-30-2010, 07:48 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
I'm blushing.
Bad idea, Glenn can see you then, you'll look like a cherry fritter.
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  #252  
Old 07-02-2010, 09:08 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Beauty is individual, with ugliness or chaos as just a different point in the process toward a balance of will and nature. Perhaps those who demand beauty just have less patience or ability to create change, so don't appreciate the process. Denying portions of the continuum would seem to be sacrificing a lot of personal knowledge, and maybe the complimentary beverages to the first 500 wretches.
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  #253  
Old 07-05-2010, 09:26 PM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

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Originally Posted by Ries View Post
He "might" also think that real angels have moustaches, and you did it wrong.

In point of fact, ANYONE "might" think virtually ANYTHING.

Which is one of the side effects of freedom.

But what possible difference does it make?

we are all, effectively, free, to think whatever we want, and to make whatever art we want.

And, whether you "want" us to judge your opinions, artwork, or politics, or not, every single human on earth is free to do so.

again- so what?

Nothing in this thread so far has convinced me that "beauty" is a constant, definable thing that can be agreed upon outside of any one persons brain.
Or that "beauty" matters, in any way, any more than any artificial construct of the individual brain.

You like what you like.
I will like what I like.

In some cases, there may be overlap.

Or not.

Ries, you're "so what" take on the discussion exhibits an unwillingness to consider. And if we only ever arrive at the "eye of the beholder" piece of obviousness then there there is no transcendent application of language or communication (which I have had some suspicions about). So you have uttered a blankness by this post. And blankness is comparable to drudge and drudge is common and common is functional and functional ISNT Art. See. So we'll need more from you in this type of pondering that doesnt simply excuse our shocking differences as mere matters of preference.

It is hard work to for a maximally isolated baffled gawker (all of us) to exchange a pertinence or two. WORK.

The prospect of "beauty" as we all perceive it is as important a thing to address as there is. But we all must get past the "word" and the letters and the pronouncing and the expanded variations and try to relate the notion of it to each other by the aid of well selected, wildly liberated and purposefully-ruined sentences...because sentences are ALL vague and it will take a powerfully charged creative assertion to arrange the small amount of words available into translatable thoughts. Especially when addressing something that is only ever identified by sensory receptors (as opposed to being identified by scribbles, scratches, grunts and moans that drool out of typers, pens and slobbering human lips).

Last edited by evaldart : 07-05-2010 at 09:54 PM.
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  #254  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:05 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

I don't think I slobber... is it really important to the pre-process? "Why Slobber Matters..."
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  #255  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:13 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Oh but we DO slobber; everyone of us. Among the best metaphors for human thought would be the one that involves "pre-digestion". Spittle and spew proliferate in our exchanges. And if they do not then nothing is getting said - and so it must then be assumed that nothing is getting thought.
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  #256  
Old 07-05-2010, 10:22 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

I get in trouble even when people aren't getting sprayed... maybe that's the problem. Stand back!
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  #257  
Old 07-06-2010, 10:30 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

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I get in trouble even when people aren't getting sprayed... maybe that's the problem. Stand back!
Very true, approach at your own risk, dont try to plug the spew or you'll get soaked.
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  #258  
Old 07-12-2010, 10:17 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

I think I understand now why beauty matters. Here goes...

Beauty matters because it reflects some wonderful aspect of the awesome Creator of life. Or to put it more plainly, in it we see a part of God.


It would make sense that those who lack a belief in God may also have no reason to hold beauty in regard. Yet again they may like beauty as much as anyone, but the intellect is playing tricks to convince them otherwise, otherwise the house of cards on which the denial of God rests might collapse.
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  #259  
Old 07-12-2010, 10:49 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

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Originally Posted by GlennT View Post
I think I understand now why beauty matters. Here goes...

Beauty matters because it reflects some wonderful aspect of the awesome Creator of life. Or to put it more plainly, in it we see a part of God.


It would make sense that those who lack a belief in God may also have no reason to hold beauty in regard. Yet again they may like beauty as much as anyone, but the intellect is playing tricks to convince them otherwise, otherwise the house of cards on which the denial of God rests might collapse.
you know, if it works for you, that's great. The thing is, I don't care if there's a god, because it is humanity that I must live with, and solace/beauty is not in their absense, but the ability to co-exist without infringing on the ability to continue for all and everything.
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  #260  
Old 07-12-2010, 10:49 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

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Originally Posted by GlennT View Post
I think I understand now why beauty matters. Here goes...

Beauty matters because it reflects some wonderful aspect of the awesome Creator of life. Or to put it more plainly, in it we see a part of God.


It would make sense that those who lack a belief in God may also have no reason to hold beauty in regard. Yet again they may like beauty as much as anyone, but the intellect is playing tricks to convince them otherwise, otherwise the house of cards on which the denial of God rests might collapse.
werks for me
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  #261  
Old 07-12-2010, 10:58 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Glenn, ones never "lacks" a belief. Beliefs are added to a sensibility - like non-stick spray...helps folks slide amongst each other more readily - they are accumulated, sign-up-for, assumed, worn, schlepped, swallowed and shoved-down-throats. Only useful during the regular parts of existence when commonalities must be shared for functioning.

In the rarer, better, more significant parts of existence - the parts where ALL one's rewards are made available - beliefs have NO place. As their decidedness, supposed completeness and deadness (murdered by "meaning"), thwart possibilities and predict (always erroneously) the outcomes of the creative act.

If there is a god, you are quite insulting him, and disrespecting him by merely "believing" in him. How dare you surmise Him in such a fashion - how dare you suppose you know what He wants you to think of Him, how dare you imagine Him with arms, legs, a body and language and preferences over matters of good and bad. You better straighten up, sonny - theres hell to pay for an illspent intellect, an unchallenged alienation and an under-used and under nourished body. And you would commit this in His name....oooooh boy, yer in fer it.
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  #262  
Old 07-12-2010, 11:05 AM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
the intellect is playing tricks to convince them otherwise
Covered that already starting with post #231.

Quote:
Beauty matters because ... in it we see a part of God.
If you want to call God trees, rocks, insects, nipples, Picasso, my inner smile, well sure. I'll go along with that. I just don't get God as some image of man. That would be depressing if it was limited to that. But what do you call ugly things--unGodly? So, like to my teenager I should say, get that unGodly smirk off your face and replace it with a more beatific one, if you're going to smirk?
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  #263  
Old 07-12-2010, 11:23 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

here's a simple one
http://www.amazon.com/Faces-Clouds-N...p/0195098919#_
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  #264  
Old 07-12-2010, 12:36 PM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

First of all, you get into trouble when you say God=religion, or somehow imply that a particular brand of religion's interpretation of God is what I mean when I say, "God". Religion is man's attempt through the lense of human consciousness to tune in to who and what God is and how God may want us to behave. Or, even better, it may be the result of the human consciousness having been transcended long enough for a clearer concept of God to become apparent, and then working through the human consciousness to express this to others. What some of those "others" then do with the knowledge has led to the zillion problems that people then blame on religion, because that is an easy way of skirting the issue of one's own personal relationship with God.

Depicting God as some variation of human features is just a device for focusing the mind, it is not physically a literal image of ultimate reality. But it is accurate insofar as God can be internalized in human form if we are open to that, as Jesus demonstrated and asked us to do likewise. So grommet's comments about humanity are not reflective of my understanding. We can see God in others, at various levels of being internalized, ignored, or of being shunned intentionally. jOe's "ugly" may be the result of any number of effects of this process, so "ungodly" would not be a correct description.

evaldart caught me in semantics, using the word "belief". Using this word was my compromise with what I believed to be the generally accepted language of my audience. "Knowing God" is more closer, but not really accurate because God is much greater than we could possibly "know" in our limited state. "Knowing that God exists" could work but it sounds obvious to me and yet is more provocative than just compromising for the sake of communicating and saying, "belief".

I don't mind trying to clarify, but my earlier point really was to explain why beauty matters. I'm pretty sure this realization is more universal than just being some matter that happens to work for me. Also, it should be noted that the attempt is to explain why beauty matters, not to explain or cast judgement on things having other qualities but not necessarily beauty.
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  #265  
Old 07-12-2010, 12:52 PM
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jOe~ jOe~ is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Depicting God as some variation of human features is just a device for focusing the mind, it is not physically a literal image of ultimate reality. But it is accurate insofar as God can be internalized in human form if we are open to that, as Jesus demonstrated and asked us to do likewise.
So what if Jesus was "just a device for focusing the mind". I mean, maybe God presented Jesus in human form so that earthlings would not freak out while He tried to scare some sense into them. Looks like he gave up. Earthlings are still bent on destroying everything. I think God as a nebula that contains the universe is more sensible.
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  #266  
Old 07-12-2010, 01:26 PM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

I think you've got most of that right, jOe!
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  #267  
Old 07-12-2010, 01:46 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

so you stole the word "god" because it's the biggest number you could think of?
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  #268  
Old 07-12-2010, 03:09 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

The creative intelligence that created the universe may have a name other than God, but it seems to work for conversational purposes.

You can think of the name like this if you'd like:

Geometry Of Divinity

If the name bothers you though, perhaps you can use "Hey You!" when addressing your Creator.
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  #269  
Old 07-12-2010, 03:26 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
The creative intelligence that created the universe may have a name other than God, but it seems to work for conversational purposes.

You can think of the name like this if you'd like:

Geometry Of Divinity

If the name bothers you though, perhaps you can use "Hey You!" when addressing your Creator
My creators prefer the titles "Mom" and "Dad".

here's more blah
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intelligent_design
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spirituality

couch it however you want, you're a dude who makes religious-type figures. Just change the parameters of religion like you changed the parameters of god.

And as for beauty, many people seek it like a drug, trampleing small saplings, artists, and bunnies as they go.
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Last edited by grommet : 07-12-2010 at 04:25 PM.
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  #270  
Old 07-12-2010, 04:46 PM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
couch it however you want, you're a dude who makes religious-type figures.

And as for beauty, many people seek it like a drug, trampleing small saplings, artists, and bunnies as they go.

I make a number of things. I don't actually make religious-type figures, I make art. Some but not the majority of the art I make is commissioned for places of religious worship, because of the deep spirituality and comittment to beauty that goes into my art. My observations today of why beauty matters thus makes sense regarding why a place where God is worshipped would want such art.

I am quite comfortable in relating to a number of different religious or spiritual beliefs because they are avenues towards a deeper perception of God. Unlike some artists, I don't have hostility towards religion, except for the misues of it. So when commissioned I focus on what to me are the important elements of that religion so my commissioned work is in synch, but beyond that it is my interpretation as an artist and a spiritually aware soul of what I believe needs to communicated through the work.

Your attempt to equate loving beauty with destructive behavior is comical.
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  #271  
Old 07-12-2010, 04:46 PM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

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And as for beauty, many people seek it like a drug,
Sounds like a reasonable drug of choice.
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  #272  
Old 07-12-2010, 05:20 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

addictive personalities seek drug of choice.

glad you've found a niche, Glenn

Quote:
Your attempt to equate loving beauty with destructive behavior is comical.
my point was addictions cause people to lose track of their surroundings. Michael Jackson was seeking beauty too.
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  #273  
Old 07-12-2010, 06:26 PM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

I bet you're addicted to air and water. When was the last time you went an entire day without either of them?
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  #274  
Old 07-12-2010, 08:11 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

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I bet you're addicted to air and water. When was the last time you went an entire day without either of them?
why, just the other day! You should have seen the fuss! sheesh...
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  #275  
Old 07-18-2010, 08:09 PM
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

eye of the beholder
perspective matters
patterns within patterns and all patterns are universal

continuum:
like an electrical circuit with a floating ground
if the continuum is a variance of 110 volts
beauty(+) charge
Ugly(-) charge and we have the continuum
the 120 volt difference holds within the continuum
but with the floating ground, we may see that voltage as thousands of volts from our grounded bodies..........and the beauty of 120 volts is lost to those of us outside the continuum.
perspective matters

no air, no water, my god the old broad is dead----------------and
a necrophiliac may find beauty in her rotting corpse

beauty beyond bounds becomes tantamount to god, YWHA, Tao, Elohim, Allah,
beyond the rational lies the beginnings and delineations of concept beauty
grasped-------------it runs through your fingers like air or water
appreciated-----------------it enlivens the soul
known-----------it becomes......... epiphany
orgasmic, satisfying and relaxing and energizing

fleeing ugliness is not the same as seeking beauty
can anyone succeed while seeking that which cannot be grasped

the journey is the thing that fulfills

Bonaventure
rod
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