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  #1  
Old 07-09-2008, 06:38 AM
xhsatan1981 xhsatan1981 is offline
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Question need help about a curio sculpture, thx

Hello everyone:

I'm a Chinese collector, yesterday I got a bronze sculpture, which seems like an antique. But the problem is I just have very very limited knowledge about Western Artwork, especially about European sculpture. So, can anyone tell me the age, or style, or producing area, or value, or any information about this sculpture? Any help is welcome~

thanks very much!


height:120 centimeters
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  #2  
Old 07-09-2008, 12:11 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

The work looks to be in the severe style of Greek art, a period of transition between the archaic and classical periods. I would guess the period to be around 470-460 BC. It combines the over-divison of the abdominal muscles seen in the archaic period, with anatomical details in the face that are more typical of the early classical era. The stance is an innovation beyond the archaic period and similar to that just preceeding the breakthroughs of Polykleitos. This could thus be from the Argive school prior to Polyklietos, perhaps his assumed mentor, Ageladas of Argos, in the Peloponnesos. The proportions and style of the face, however, do not look like anything I have seen in Greek art from that period, but most of what survives is either terra cotta or marble, not bronze.

If this is authentic, it would be worth a fortune. A huge fortune. It is more likely to be a well concieved and executed fake. It sure looks convincing in photos, but an examination of it physically may reveal much more about the manner in which it was constructed.

If it is a fake, still, it has great appeal on its own merits as a work from a masterful hand.

Last edited by GlennT : 07-09-2008 at 03:46 PM.
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Old 07-09-2008, 02:14 PM
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Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

adding to Glenn's excellent post:

as to the likelyhood of the piece being an ancient greek original:

the overall look is wrong
the height is wrong at 47 inches
the head is wrong
and the ankles are clumsily done

should you think it an original, an analysis of the bronze would be in order, quite often, date and location of the founding can be determined by the % of main ingredients and trace metals

If you could post larger (more detailed) pictures and especially get closeups of any seems/welds/joints or a foundry mark.....a more thorough examination
could be conducted and understanding derived

you might want to peruse the Riace bronzes on-line
and read associated discussions

my guess from shown material
would be that you have a knock-off intended for a garden
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  #4  
Old 07-09-2008, 03:45 PM
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Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

The main thing that makes it appear a fake is the head neither matches the style of the period the rest of it suggests, nor much of anything else for that matter, although that could be excused as coming from some place in asia minor where an argive sculptor had done a traveling symposium.

Then , as sculptor points out, the ankles are clumsily done. True of the feet as well. They look like late archaic work at best, and it is highly doubtful that as an original ancient work the hand that so masterfully and delicately worked on the features of the face would have failed to do as well with the feet.

One should also consider despite the treatment of the surface which in these photos at least give the appearance of great age, the statue is in an almost unheard of state of preservation for a bronze of that period.
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Old 07-09-2008, 09:36 PM
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Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

<<...The work looks to be in the severe style of Greek art, a period of transition between the archaic and classical periods. I would guess the period to be around 470-460 BC. It combines the over-divison of the abdominal muscles seen in the archaic period, with anatomical details in the face that are more typical of the early classica...>>Glen

adding to Glenn's excellent post:

Sculptor<<...as to the likelyhood of the piece being an ancient greek original:

the overall look is wrong
the height is wrong at 47 inches
the head is wrong...>>


<<...The main thing that makes it appear a fake is the head neither matches the style of the period the rest of it suggests, nor much of anything else for that matter, although that could be excused as coming from some place in asia minor where an argive sculptor had done a traveling symposium....>> Glen

Ainsi est le marche d'art.

RD
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Last edited by rderr.com : 07-09-2008 at 09:39 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:32 AM
tobias tobias is offline
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Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

I think the arm is broken.
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  #7  
Old 07-10-2008, 01:30 PM
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Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

quote tobias <<...I think the arm is broken...>>

Friend tells the story of having found a small souvenir bronze copy of the Venus de Milo. It did not have a price tag on it. When he went to pay for it, the girl behind the cash register said, "Oh you can have it if you don't mind the arms being broken."

Robert Derr
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Old 07-10-2008, 05:37 PM
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Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

I'll have to add my feeling that it is a very recent fake (maybe last 10 - 20 years), based on most of the points discussed above.
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  #9  
Old 07-12-2008, 10:02 AM
xhsatan1981 xhsatan1981 is offline
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Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

thanks very much for all the replys, i'd appreciate it~

Here r more pictures of details, just take a look plz.












So, here r more questions:
1.What would u conclude from these pics?
2.If it is fake, then what is the most probable period of it? Just last 10-20 years like fritchie said, or earlier?
3.If it is authentic, then how and why did it came to China? U know, when I first saw it in Beijing, i just felt unbelievable...
4.Is there any necessary for me to do a physical examination to ascertain the main ingredients of it?

Thank you for answering~

Westwood Chang

Last edited by xhsatan1981 : 07-12-2008 at 10:06 AM. Reason: details
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2008, 10:41 AM
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Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

Those pictures help. Definitely a fake, probably recent like fritchie says, given evidence of grinded welds and sprues that are current foundry practise and not as was done in the 19th century and earlier.

Also, notice the beads on the surfaces that have not been chased smooth. Typical of a "time is money' approach to bronze finishing knock-off's, not of authentic anicent Greek bronzes.

There are a number of other details regarding style and execution that are not right for ancient Greek, but do not define the date of production.

Nice portrait in the background.
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Old 07-12-2008, 06:16 PM
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Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

Mr. Chang - These extra pictures, as GlennT said, prove beyond doubt that this is a modern sculpture. The grind marks, made with a rotary grinder, plus many places where welds fill armature holes penetrating the sculpture, are evidence of current finishing. Also, as he says, many small metal beads or irregularities on edges show that the producer of this piece paid little attention to finish.

I see no reason to try determining the source of the metal. That would be important only if the work were very old.
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  #12  
Old 07-12-2008, 06:52 PM
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Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

Frankly,

I would like to know how you posted such a high number of high quallity photos.

The work has problems. Hopefully you bought iit because you liked it. If not then---

Art etc
RD
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  #13  
Old 07-13-2008, 12:04 PM
xhsatan1981 xhsatan1981 is offline
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Thumbs up Re: need help about a curio sculpture, thx

O got it~~Thank u very much, I learn a lot from u guys thx!!
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