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  #1  
Old 08-04-2004, 04:13 AM
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obseq obseq is offline
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Rapid Prototyping

Has anyone here worked with this technology in creating their own art?.

After reading Fritchie's Bronze mini-blog, I think a similar blog concerning RP would be great if anyone here has prior experience or currently utilizes it.

Provided the technology becomes more accessable and cost effective, would any of you be inclined to abandon traditional techniques ?
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  #2  
Old 08-04-2004, 07:34 AM
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ExNihiloStudio ExNihiloStudio is offline
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Re: Rapid Prototyping

The technology definitely has its place and will only become more common. It could lower production costs to make beautifully carved stone ornament more readily available. When I think of the possibilities I imagine our cities loaded with detailed carving that would be too expensive to carve by hand. Companies can take an original stone carving, scan it digitally, and carve a duplicate in stone automatically in a short time. It works if you think of it as a labor saving device, but youíll do yourself in if you let the machine do the thinking for you. Is the machine helping you reach your goals, or are you a slave to the machine? Who is the brain and what is the beast of burden in this scenario? If you can get on top of this issue then you could do great things in stone.
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  #3  
Old 08-04-2004, 05:30 PM
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Question Re: Rapid Prototyping

Mark,

I agree, there are seemingly limitless possibilities. Contending with size, as you mentioned, becomes a very diminished issue.

As far as I understand, the technology has been available for some time, at least in commercial and industrial applications but is still very nascent in the arts. How much longer will it take until we see artists consistently using this technology?

You also bring up an important point regarding control and mastery. Hand-tools are replaced with a few deft scans while the artist has enough time to wonder if s/he would prefer to tap a foot or whistle while waiting.

If the technology manages to effectively kill the auteur and appreciating the demanding process, what good is it?

Last edited by obseq : 08-05-2004 at 12:07 AM.
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Old 08-04-2004, 09:37 PM
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fritchie fritchie is offline
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Re: Rapid Prototyping; Rodin and the masses

I have read that Rodin thought casting of multiples, mainly in fired clay, would bring art to the masses in his time, and that was one of his inspirations.

He was denied admission to the Ecole des Beaux Artes (sp?), the premier government-funded fine-art school of his day, but admitted to the corresponding technical school (Ecole Superiore ?), and thatís where he received his training. He worked as an assistant in a clay production factory from about the age of eighteen to nearly forty, I think, before receiving recognition for work he did in Belgium. (Iím sure someone will clear up misstatements I may have made here.)

His goal of good art in every home didnít come to be, because most people would rather spend time and money watching football than considering esthetics. We have to face the fact that our tastes are in the minority, regardless of cost.
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  #5  
Old 08-05-2004, 01:16 PM
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Re: Rapid Prototyping

I know some people tend to admire a piece if they perceive it as being difficult to make, but I donít think the skill or effort necessary to produce a piece is an accurate judge of its quality. Iím thinking more about the adage ďgarbage in, garbage outĒ. In other words, the machine wonít make a bad piece good.

The NY Times July 22 Circuits section in the print edition had an interesting article about ďgranite-grinding Xerox machinesĒ, machines that reproduce stone carving. Studio Roc in North Hollywood and Johnson Atelier Technical Institute of Sculpture in Trenton were mentioned as places where this technology is used.
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  #6  
Old 08-05-2004, 03:00 PM
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Re: Rabid Prototyping

machines replace men when the job calls for redundancy.

many years ago, I saw a multi router setup which could reproduce a wood carving x6 the guide followed the contours of the original and the screamers trimmed out the waste wood for 6 copies-----once upon a time, a master would carve a table or chair leg and the apprentices would carve out another 6-8-10 etc copies

so the apprentices were replaced by the multi-router setup and that is being replaced by cad-cam machines-----now if we could just train the machines to rid themselves of any residual aesthetic they could mass produce "modern art"
~ŅŰ

whither hence
Rod(sculptor)
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  #7  
Old 08-05-2004, 05:50 PM
anne (bxl) anne (bxl) is offline
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Re: Rapid Prototyping; Rodin and the masses

Quote:
Originally Posted by fritchie
He was denied admission to the Ecole des Beaux Artes (sp?), the premier government-funded fine-art school of his day, but admitted to the corresponding technical school (Ecole Superiore ?), and thatís where he received his training. He worked as an assistant in a clay production factory from about the age of eighteen to nearly forty, I think, before receiving recognition for work he did in Belgium. (Iím sure someone will clear up misstatements I may have made here.)
Rodin enter to the CollŤge de France (Ecole supťrieure) where he studied literature, history, etc, before he has been denied to the Ecole des Beaux-Arts (or in spanish Bellas Artes). Then he worked as a craftman for various decoration companies and sculptors, spend a few months in a monastery, was in the army for a while,... and arrived in Brussels at the age of 31 where he stayed about 6 years working as a emergent sculptor. He did his first major work there "l'‚ge d'airain" and went back to Paris at that time: he was 37.... Every one thought that "l'‚ge d'airain" was moulded and not sculpted. For years Rodin has been criticized for his "mouldings"....
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  #8  
Old 08-05-2004, 05:50 PM
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Re: Rapid Prototyping

"machines replace men when the job calls for redundancy."

Rod you make a good point here. However, I think redundant motions/actions can yield spectacular results. How are we to qualify redunancy in art-making? Additonally, I would be inclined to think that the statement would hold truth for a commercial or industrial application--creating widgets--rather than a seeing a single wave of inspiration to fruition.



" know some people tend to admire a piece if they perceive it as being difficult to make, but I donít think the skill or effort necessary to produce a piece is an accurate judge of its quality. Iím thinking more about the adage ďgarbage in, garbage outĒ. In other words, the machine wonít make a bad piece good."

Definately true, Mark. The admiration of a difficult piece also seems to tie in when the spectator's perspective becomes decidely micro or macroscopic.Clearly, process is something at which we marvel--Are we as impressed by a machine as we are with a human?


Fritchie--Why did Rodin abandon his idea? I would assume that later in his life he would have access to some means of mass-producing art. I wonder if he would be an adept of digital sculpture if he were alive today. That said, would he frown upon having his work scanned and reproduced using RP technology?
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Old 08-05-2004, 08:34 PM
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Re: Rapid Prototyping; Rodin and multiples

Quote:
Originally Posted by obseq
"machines replace men when the job calls for redundancy."

Rod you make a good point here. ........

Fritchie--Why did Rodin abandon his idea? I would assume that later in his life he would have access to some means of mass-producing art. I wonder if he would be an adept of digital sculpture if he were alive today. That said, would he frown upon having his work scanned and reproduced using RP technology?
I donít think he really abandoned it. I just was commenting that the public at large didnít respond in the way he would have hoped. As Iím sure you know, most of his works were reproduced in multiple copies - more or less as many copies as people wanted during his own lifetime, I believe, and authorized copies are being made today, from the original molds or from early casts.

His first piece widely recognized, "l'‚ge d'airain" as Anne says, or ďAge of BronzeĒ, I believe, in English, was reproduced something like 30 - 35 times during his life. Certainly, that went a long way toward his goal. Many millions of people have seen this piece, in most corners of the world. At least until the newly opened Besthoff Sculpture Garden at the New Orleans Museum of Art, this Rodin sculpture was among the museumís top few works. It still has pride of place within the museum, atop the main landing in the entrance court.

At the clay or ceramic manufactory where he worked, his principal job after at least a few years was making contemporary, decorative heads for reproduction and low-cost sale. He succeeded in his goal there also, in a way. Two of these ceramic heads were in a major Rodin show at NOMA about 15 years ago.
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  #10  
Old 06-08-2005, 09:54 PM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: Rapid Prototyping

One thing I've been wondering about, regarding rapid prototyping, is the scale of the object file. RP typically involves production of models not much larger than a few inches in diameter, yet, in the software I'm creating my sculptures in, the size is whatever it happens to be. I exported one of my pieces to another application, where I could measure it, and found to my shock that my sculpture, destined to be produced as about 4" tall was over 215 feet tall in the virtual environment! I found that scaling it down to actual projected size didn't work out very well, as the software I'm using can't handle anything that small.

So, my question, then, is whether or not the relative size of the digital model matters, first of all, and if so, can it be corrected in the rapid prototyping phase? Or does the machine just produce a model that fits its own size limitations, automatically, much as an inkjet printer will scale an image to fit the paper?

Gary
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  #11  
Old 06-09-2005, 08:55 PM
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Re: Rapid Prototyping - various methods

Gary - I can't give you an answer from my own experience, but computer (digital ) models can be made solid in several ways. I think you are describing the process where the solid is built up layer by layer in liquid solution. Much larger pieces routinely are produced by computer-controlled milling of a foamed solid of some type, and there may be still other processes today.

Iím sure you will get a better reply shortly. Surely, the manufacturer can scale these things, though your cost will be lower if you are job-ready.
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  #12  
Old 06-10-2005, 07:23 AM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: Rapid Prototyping

Right, Fritchie. That's CNC milling. What I was referring to, though, was whether the machine, whatever type it is, scales the digital model to fit the maximum size it can produce. For example, if a stereolithography printer can only produce a maximum size of 4"x4"x4", it couldn't possibly handle a virtual model with a virtual height of 200 feet unless it automatically scales the model to a size it can reproduce. If this does occur, then no problem; my models can be any size in virtual space. But, if the machine requires a virtual model that is scaled to the limits of its output range, i.e., no larger than 4"x4"x4", then I'd have to rescale my digital model to suit the machine. That's what I've been wondering about, as I don't have the facility to do so without problems cropping up. If the machine will automatically resize to fit its own constraints, then no problem at all.

Gary
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