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  #26  
Old 09-17-2005, 07:19 PM
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fritchie fritchie is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

I'm afraid I have to wade in on the side of "It's a great waste of marble."
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  #27  
Old 09-18-2005, 03:09 PM
anne (bxl) anne (bxl) is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostNYC
Anyway, one thing I noticed about Koons, is his email address is .nl- the Netherlands, and that country is one place where literally everything goes, (with the exception of child porn) it's where most of the porn comes from.
first thing, I live next to the Netherlands, and this image is relatively wrong : rules and laws are quite permissive in the Netherlands, this is right, but never try to go around a law or to climb a rule, you'll be fired...

second point a question : is any work done by an artist a piece of art?
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  #28  
Old 09-19-2005, 09:45 AM
ironman ironman is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Hi Anne, OOH, that could be a tough question and open up a can of worms and it should probably be a thread of it's own.
That said,
Is any work done by an artist a piece of art??
My answer is YES, as long as it's INTENT is to be a work of art.
It doesn't matter whether it's fit for children to see, it doesn't matter if we like it or not, and it may very well be an absolutely God awful piece of junk in everybody's mind BUT, if the artists intent is that it is a work of art, then it's a work of art!
We may judge it's quality, it's lack of what WE consider art to be, but we can't judge whether or not it's a piece of art, that's a given.
Have a nice day,
Jeff
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  #29  
Old 09-20-2005, 11:16 AM
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sculptor sculptor is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Quote:
Originally Posted by anne (bxl)
... is any work done by an artist a piece of art?
Hi Anne
I'll weigh in with NO

simply put.....if an artist weeds my garden, what's left behind is a weeded garden and a pile of weeds.

Now, on to defining "artist" I think the term is far to widely applied.
We should reserve that word for those who have acheived the best within their chosen dicipline.

A few years ago, I was leading a sculpting workshop at a local highschool, and one of the students, while reassuring a fellow student, said, " ...everyone is an artist."
My, perhaps unkind, retort was, " sure everyone is an artist, just like everyone is a brain surgeon, and everyone is a nuclear physicist, but a few years of study, and some dedicated effort and practice might be worth the effort."

"art" without craft is immature doodle nonsense and undeserving of the term "art"

So too, for those who would be considered "artists" some dedicated hard work and honest effort to learn and improve following on a reasonable ammount of talent should be assumed the minimum expectation.

If we do not hold our peers to a higher standard, we diminish the value of the those whose lives reflect the struggle and dedication and efforts to develope the skill necessary to acheive the glory and beauty of our aesthetic potential.

Those who would claim the title ARTIST without putting in the dedication and hard work are usurpers, and should be taken about as seriously as someone claiming to be the emperor of the known universe.

rod
sculptor

Last edited by sculptor : 09-20-2005 at 11:20 AM.
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  #30  
Old 09-20-2005, 12:55 PM
Jamo Jamo is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Art patrons should be able to file malpractice lawsuits against crappy art
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  #31  
Old 09-20-2005, 05:06 PM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Be careful what you wish for, Jamo.

Gary
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  #32  
Old 09-20-2005, 06:32 PM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Quote:
Originally Posted by sculptor
"art" without craft is immature doodle nonsense and undeserving of the term "art"
But what can be done about this?

If art galleries are able to sell paint doodles by monkeys, elephants, and nude girls rolling on canvas, who can stop them?
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  #33  
Old 09-20-2005, 06:58 PM
ironman ironman is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Love it, Jamo, you made my afternoon, and I think that GaryR52 must be a lawyer in his other life.
Thanks for the chuckle,
Jeff
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  #34  
Old 10-03-2005, 04:02 PM
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underachiever underachiever is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

All art could be or was viewed as disturbing or pornographic at one point or another. But I guess we should put clothes of David and burn Manet's Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe. After all, think of the children!

*rolls eyes*

I would think it's the duty of the parent, not the artist and museums to educate the child on the difference between porn and art.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostNYC
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamo
Art patrons should be able to file malpractice lawsuits against crappy art
LOL I love it!!!
Yeah, if that ever came to pass, I would love to see your reaction when a patron decides your work is crappy for some silly reason and sues you. :/

Art is subjective. -.- What's crap now could be brilliant 10 years ago or 10 years later.
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Last edited by underachiever : 10-03-2005 at 04:06 PM.
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  #35  
Old 10-10-2005, 04:39 PM
arcdawg arcdawg is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

There is a big differance between ART and PORN......that koons guy is a low level smut peddler scumbag that has pushed that line way too far ! I am a very open minded person when it comes to art but to see those pictures deemed as artwork is B.S. but in the U.S. we have the right to look or not to look......

but to defend that scumbag........? nope not me !

D-
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  #36  
Old 10-10-2005, 06:39 PM
setmenu setmenu is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Quote:
Originally Posted by arcdawg
There is a big differance between ART and PORN......that koons guy is a low level smut peddler scumbag that has pushed that line way too far ! I am a very open minded person when it comes to art but to see those pictures deemed as artwork is B.S. but in the U.S. we have the right to look or not to look......

but to defend that scumbag........? nope not me !

D-
You say there is a big difference between art and porn, but defining
the dividing line is another matter.
You may think the line has been crossed others may not.
Who decides?

The images shown are just well images of behavior that people have
repeated for millenia.
Hardly novel, I would agree.

Peoples responses to such images are always interesting though...



.
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  #37  
Old 10-10-2005, 10:15 PM
arcdawg arcdawg is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

all I was saying is that *I* dont like it but I guess that it could still be classified as art....the problem is that there is WAY too much of a grey area now a days....

it really gets down to morals and believes.....not many people have either of the two anymore....

just my two cents -

dawg
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  #38  
Old 10-12-2005, 10:09 AM
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underachiever underachiever is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

You aren't addressing how works released in the past were originally dismissed as porn or adult or disturbing are considered masterpieces now. Refer to the initial reactions to Manet's Le Déjeuner sur l'herbe and Piccaso's Le Just because you suffer from a closed mind doesn't cause the art to lose it's value. Frankly, I'm surprised to read an american nearly suggest censorship on an art oriented board.

Still, it can't be denied that Koon's exploiting the reaction from people like you (arcdawg) for publicity and attention. Nudity in art is not new. Intercourse is not new. People have had sex ever since people were having sex and it's not exactly an exciting new idea to document the process. So what makes art like Koon's special? People shrieking because they've watched too much porn and see similiarities. People who've never had sex before. Overly religious people who think the act of sex is somehow wrong despite it's a natural bodily function. People with kids, who are so bad at parenting their kids can't the difference between good and bad and they need something/someone to blame. And of course, the anal retentive.

The outcry forces those who normally wouldn't give a damn to see people like Koons in a new light. He's no longer a boring artist who's just doing something older then cave paintings, he's being brave and original.

...

Blah, you can blame no one but the people who gave artists like Koon the chance to provoke them into giving him fame.
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  #39  
Old 10-12-2005, 10:48 AM
arcdawg arcdawg is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

well I was waiting for a response like ^ I do understand that its classified as art.....but should have just been submitted to playboy or another skin mag. You are right about nudity and sex being MAJOR players in art history, and maybe in 100 years that *koons* guy will be looked as a contempory picaso.....( I really hope not)

I enjoy art that pushes the envolpe but just to push the envolpe to get to be called an artist is cheating in my book !

this isnt an arugment on prude vs pervert.....its all about personal taste and it has nothing to do about where I live....thank you very much !

Dawg
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  #40  
Old 10-13-2005, 08:03 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

screwball discussion

how about:

puplic displaying of rusty art--(if I see another pile of rusting welded boxes i'll barf)

public displaying of tension cable art-----the first one held some interest--the 49th one seems trite

public displaying of red art------I mean really, who in their right mind would paint a sculpture red?

.........etc ad nausium ad infinitum

narrowing the grey zone--cultural taste matters
ithifalic statues were common in rome

seriously, you cannot compare koons' porn to ISIS
or the veteran of the persian wars
or the mermaid

i've found that the vast majority of "the public" like and appreciate "nude art"

I think that there is actually an infinite number of ways of sculpting people
5 billion of us now and rarely do you find 2 alike
and each with myriad moods and positions and attitudes
gotta be 25 billion approaches left unexplored

'course, I'm a classicist 100%
a longhair who likes longhair music and I don't mean acid rock...though I do have a fondness for celtic (read bagpipes and drums) music and detroit rock-n-roll of the late 60s

rod
sculptor
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  #41  
Old 10-13-2005, 10:58 PM
arcdawg arcdawg is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Rod,

seems to me that there are a lot of people out there that would classify themselves as people that HAVE to protect the first admendment.....and this is where a grey area has been devolped......be it in any media, music (judis preist) photography (koons) and well the list goes on and on..... but these are the same people that would piss and moan if it was in their backyards....

sorry folks you cant have your cake and eat it too !

btw Rod, I do think that your work is simply amazing and I would have no problem letting my kids see it in a muesum....

Dawg-
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  #42  
Old 11-21-2005, 09:01 PM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Here is a very interesting news story on public display of nude art from the Philippines.

Statue causes stir in Davao

"EVERY-one's naked in the eyes of God--but a replica of Michelangelo's naked statue of David, which was built near a motel here has been causing uproar for several weeks already.

"First it was a debate between morality and a work of art, reminiscent of the century when Italian sculptor Michelangelo Buonarotti first came up with his masterpiece in Florence, Italy.

"Councilor Angela Librado-Trinidad said she could not have raised a howl if the statue was built somewhere else, not near a motel.

"She said this would send a wrong signal to the public, and teach wrong values to the children.

"Later, officials changed the issue to the legality of the statue saying it was built on land owned by the city government.

"After weeks of threatening to demolish the structure, however, officials are now saying they are open to a compromise, probably putting a pair of pants on the statue, or underwear, or the classic fig leaf.

"Vice Mayor Luis Bonguyan said in jest he was disappointed by the statue's size, which is rather small, referring to the private parts that generated the strongest public reactions here.

"Gazing at David's statue from the shade where his taxicab is parked, Romeo Salazar, a driver, said he could not see anything wrong with it.

"It just looks like my own body," he said, without a trace of malice on his face. [snip]"

More details in http://news.inq7.net/regions/index.p...story_id=57346

Last edited by Merlion : 11-22-2005 at 07:18 AM.
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  #43  
Old 11-22-2005, 06:00 PM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Ha, ha! Here is another piece of news about controversy over public nude art in a shop window. This is in San Francisco, and the artwork is a beautifully done male nude torso sculpture. There is even a video on it.

Controversy Over Naked Statue In Castro
Owner Covers Sculpture's Torso


"A statue of a naked man in San Francisco's Castro district is causing controversy.

"Some parents have complained the anatomically-correct sculpture is too explicit to be kept in a store window - even in the sexually-liberated Castro. Police threatened to cite the statue's owner and confiscate the $3,800 piece of art.

"The owner covered a key portion of it, but still can't believe anyone complained.

"Robert Hedric, 'Phantom SF' owner: "I was shocked and to some point, devastated. It was quite mind boggling, because I thought to myself, am I in San Francisco? Am I in the Castro, or not?" [snip]"

Details in http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?sec...cal&id=3653209

Last edited by Merlion : 11-22-2005 at 06:06 PM.
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  #44  
Old 12-08-2005, 07:18 AM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlion
Ha, ha! Here is another piece of news about controversy over public nude art in a shop window. This is in San Francisco, and the artwork is a beautifully done male nude torso sculpture. There is even a video on it.
Boy, oh Boy. There is a further news report about this nude sculpture in a shop window in Castro, San Francisco. The shop owner decided to remove the modesty loin cloth thus revealing everything.

Merchant exposes statue's penis

Santa Claus is coming early for lovers of artwork with engorged penises. As of today (Thursday, December 8), a Castro merchant plans to disrobe a teak statue and allow passersby to once again view a now world famous 8-inch penis on the chiseled, naked kneeling man in his store window.

In October, police officers responding to complaints informed the storeowner that he had to cover up the penis on the Balinese statue – which functions as a tabletop holder – because it was pornographic and violated city codes. The merchant complied by draping a blue loincloth over the statue's genitals but felt his rights had been violated.
[snip]

Full report with bare all photo here. I post this as is, and would not comment nor debate on whether this taken as a whole is good art.

Last edited by Merlion : 12-08-2005 at 10:27 AM.
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  #45  
Old 12-09-2005, 05:24 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Thanx Merlion

the artists seems to've worked to an ithiphallic ideal with sculpted abbs, oversized biceps/triceps and a generally overmuscled upper body.

in a supplicants pose.....perhaps a prayer to the goddess for an enthusiastic mate?

tabletop holder-----as in place a round glass top atop his head and elbows?

guess......28"-34" tall?

the price seems very reasonable

....."balinese statue" ...
fercrissakes I'd prefer that they actually mentioned the artist's name
just once
a little respect for a talented craftsman/artist

rod
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  #46  
Old 12-22-2005, 09:39 PM
arcdawg arcdawg is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

I like that *rusted box* comment....I can believe the prices of some of those pieces.....I gotta jump abord that gravy train -

d-
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  #47  
Old 04-20-2006, 04:02 AM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Back to this interesting topic. Here is another recent event, also in the US. And the unhappiness concerns a bare all sculpture of Adam placed at the front entrance of an art center.

Angry artist withdraws nude sculpture from St. Charles show

A sculpture known as "The Creation of Adam" has been pulled out of the Foundry Art Centre in St. Charles by St. Louis artist Philip Hitchcock because of what he calls "vigilante censorship" and the "systematic defacement" of his work.

Hitchcock said he should have known something was up when he called the center to ask how things were going and was told by a worker "they were having a wedding at the center and 'I had to cover up his private parts.' [snip, the text, not his private parts]

His sculpture, including a detailed depiction of Adam's not-so-private part, had been placed at the front of the Foundry Art Centre and "when you walked in the door it was in your face," said Joyce Rosen, executive director of the center.

Shortly after Hitchcock put Adam on display "someone draped a tablecloth" over his genitals, Rosen said. She took that off, and then someone else put some sort of synthetic flower on the sculpture.

As we all know, artists can be a bit temperamental about their work. [snip]


Click here for the full news article.

I note a different issue. Here the artist seems to have based his apparently life-size sculpture of Adam heavily on Michaelangelo's painting of Adam, and displays it publically. What do you think of what he has done ?

Last edited by Merlion : 04-20-2006 at 10:44 AM.
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  #48  
Old 04-20-2006, 10:07 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

censorship
somewhat like the author of the piece, i fucking hate censorship

lemme tell you a little story
long ago and far away, while in the army, i used to write an article for the camp newspaper-secret camp running a top secret com-site-the military intell goons censored my articles---their approach was to delete the iffy items then jam whatever was left together and send if off to get published---I read like an illiterate lunatic--sentence fragments with multiple subjects and/or verbs and no object-----so i started a new article called "Kite Flying in Mariland---------I would go and sit on a hill overlooking the post which was in a valley surrounded by mountains, and describe what I saw and where the kite was flying----a few issues later, some of my comrades began to detect a pattern, that no matter where i was, the kite always flew over the m.i. hooch
and though the earstwhile censors never cought it, my peers understood the message quite clearly-------military intelligence, and censorship suck

it ain't a real dick, it's just a fugging statue ferchrisesake
I simply do not understand why some morons claim to find figurative sculpture offensive but suspect that it has something to do with masturbatory guilt.

whither hence?
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  #49  
Old 04-20-2006, 10:08 PM
ilona ilona is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

por·nog·ra·phy ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pôr-ngr-f)
n.
Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.
The presentation or production of this material.

Michelangelo's 'David' was probably not created to cause sexual arousal. My opinion, and I have read "The Agony and the Ecstasy" by Irving Stone, is that although he may have desired and exalted the male form, his work transcends mere visual stimulation. Otherwise he wouldn't have bothered making the back of the calf, or the angle of the neck, as perfect as the penis of his 'David'.

In fact, the genitals on most of his sculptures are probably the least realistic aspects of them. It's almost as if he stuck them there as an afterthought, because...well he wouldn't be a man without them.

the gray area so far discussed is this: If a painting is done that shows two people engaged in sexual intercourse, is it pornography? Well, I guess that depends on whether or not the person looking at it is sexually aroused by it.

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  #50  
Old 04-21-2006, 12:28 PM
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MountainSong MountainSong is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

I’ve always enjoyed nudity, have nude work in several genres and am attracted to it in others homes, galleries and museums. I cried upon seeing Michael Angelo’s David in person, and am repeatedly deeply moved by Marc Quinn’s statues of Allison (there’s a fantastic photo layout in B&W out there of her too) The human body remains one of the most interesting and dynamic subjects.

However everything on Koons page was unpleasant on some level aesthetically to me, from the stilted, posed “acting” positions and mockup overly sentimental backgrounds and clothing, to the sappy dogs and those commercial flowers. It appears driven by marketing, self aggrandizing and sensationalism…but pornography is a good enough excuse to not show the children. *chuckles*
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Last edited by MountainSong : 04-21-2006 at 01:21 PM.
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