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  #1  
Old 09-05-2008, 08:29 PM
nescup nescup is offline
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I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

I wish i knew how to sculp

This was my first try and what a load of rubbish i feel like giving up already

I went into this thinking i would be able to sculp a human head in a few hours and this was the best i came up with a kid could do better than this

I really went into this thinking i could do this below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzBs3PM2W_4

WOW now i realize its just talent and some people have it and others donít

I spent like 4 hours just trying to shape the human head and in the end i still couldnít get it right i just donít know what i am doing wrong


















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  #2  
Old 09-06-2008, 04:08 AM
Musicman92130 Musicman92130 is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

It is like learning to play an instrument, there is a sharp learning curve in the beginning. And once you learn to play one simple song it gets easier. There are different techinques to sculpting a bust. The way I was taught was to do the profile first then add the rest.

I would suggest having a friend model for you. It will be ten times easier. Or at least look at a picture where you have different angles to look at. Good luck, Mark
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  #3  
Old 09-06-2008, 05:13 AM
furby furby is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

learn the skull thats inside first, make a skull. if you study the skull then you get the framework.

you need to use an armature, like in the youtube video, cos when you do a head flat on the ground its much harder to get it right.

also a few hours is not enough time. the pro does it in a few hours maybe, the beginner, well they might spend a few hours getting the skull form blocked out, then next day a few hrs putting eyes etc, then a few more sessions to get it to any finished stage. there is a book around of modelling a clay head, thats better than watching a video cos you just go one page at a time & it points out some anatomy too and some tips & measurements.
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  #4  
Old 09-06-2008, 09:09 AM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

For a book to start with, I would recommend " Modeling and Sculpting the Human Figure" by Eduoard Lanteri. A careful reading and application of his methods and insights will put you light years ahead of this first effort.

The amount of time it takes is irrelevant, unless you are planning to do this live in front of people. Learning how to see and observe as an artist, and then translating this though a sound method is what will transform your work.
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  #5  
Old 09-06-2008, 10:57 AM
Giotto Giotto is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

We have all had to look inside ourselves and see what inner resources we have and how they "fit" with sculpture. There is a wide range of technical skill, natural ability and inspiration represented by this membership. You are dissatisfied with your effort so now you have to ask yourself is there a "fit" with my abilities with sculpture or is there another way of expressing myself, artistically, that would be more rewarding. The art world is a vast one and then there is music, poetry, dance, acting etc.

G
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2008, 12:03 PM
rika rika is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Quote:
Originally Posted by nescup View Post
I wish i knew how to sculp

This was my first try and what a load of rubbish i feel like giving up already

I went into this thinking i would be able to sculp a human head in a few hours and this was the best i came up with a kid could do better than this
Hi Nescup,

It seems to me you're disappointed because your expectations were high in the first place for a first attempt at sculpting. You're obviously have a desire to learn, because you watched the video, bought the clay and made the head, took photos from different angles and wrote this post.

I'd say don't give up before you make several more. With practice you should get better at it, just like with everything else. For finer detail you'll need some tools from your local art supply store. Keep working on this piece, try to make the features more 3D. Get the help suggested from books, photos, tutorials etc. You might be surprised at the result.

Good luck and keep us posted.
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  #7  
Old 09-06-2008, 07:59 PM
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fritchie fritchie is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Glad to see you making a strong first attempt. All the above advice is good, especially the suggestions that you get a step-by-step book with lots of pictures. I don't like the approach of doing a skull first, but that's what lots of art schools recommend, and I went through that stage. It does help.

The main thing is to get back to work and use what you already have learned, in a completely new trial.
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  #8  
Old 09-06-2008, 08:33 PM
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cheesepaws cheesepaws is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

If you don't want to wait for a book use what you got...yer head (literally!). How many finger widths are there between your hair line and your eyebrows? Between the tip of your chin and your bottom lip? If you trace a line from the tip of your ear to the front of your face - where does it end up? From the bottom of your ear? Find a unit of measurement (fingers, a pencil, a mint 1953 Willie Mays Topps baseball card, whatever..) and use it to check yourself.

Right now it appears that you are doing what so many beginning sculptors do - sculpting what you "THINK" you know about something rather than what you actually see (or feel). Train yourself to look at your subject and simply sculpt what you see without making assumptions. Working from a mirror or a photo will do, but try to start with a live model.

Of course, it goes without saying that you should abandon dry representational sculpting just as soon as you get the hang of it. I am sure you will want to move swiftly into the more rigorous and rewarding arena of conceptual art without too much delay.

Good luck. Don't stop.
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2008, 02:40 PM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Call me a maverick, but I like your piece. I say do another dozen or so using what you know now, without study. Maybe you have a natural bent for an idiosyncratic style that should not be tampered with. You don't have to go the classical route to be expressive and successful.
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  #10  
Old 09-07-2008, 03:14 PM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Quote:
Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
Call me a maverick, but I like your piece. I say do another dozen or so using what you know now, without study. Maybe you have a natural bent for an idiosyncratic style that should not be tampered with. You don't have to go the classical route to be expressive and successful.

Okay Joe, your a maverick...but but "style", indiosyncratic or otherwise, does not show itself until the thousanth effort or the twentieth year (whichever comes first). The best advice for our friend Nescup, here, would be to take a class, open some books, look at some models, go to some museums and galleries...all the stuff that the WE ALL did. Some of us decided to throw it away later and some of us embraced it more intensly. Nes can decide that for himself MUCH further down the road.

Its way too soon to complain or worry Nes, you'll be fine if you just STAY AT IT.
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  #11  
Old 09-09-2008, 11:24 AM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

personally, i rather like the head. figurative work does not have to be photo-realistic (i think it loses value when people focus too much on reproducing life) i can't believe i'm suggesting this but check out some of Picasso's figures. or, if you really just feel the need to make stuff (and sculpture really is just making stuff we call "art") then just start out making stuff- anything at all. just play with the clay and feel it and learn how it likes to behave, how you like to interact with it. something will come out of the experience even if it is not what you want or expect. just enjoy the making, something more will evolve. if its not fun, why do it?
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  #12  
Old 09-09-2008, 01:43 PM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Quote:
Originally Posted by nescup View Post

WOW now i realize its just talent and some people have it and others donít

99% perspiration and 1% inspiration, just like anything else, it takes time and effort to get "good"........... Or does it?

http://www.mrbill.com/

With 5-dollars worth of playdo Williams had more "talent" than most people ever will... Now try a dog.
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  #13  
Old 09-09-2008, 02:25 PM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

i like it too.
finish it, maybe throw in some odd form with, mount it, price it and smile
when you sell your first piece.
work towards perfection dont start with it.
confidence is the problem here, you could have said wow its this piece great
and seen who agrees or how they disagree.
your hands and eyes need to learn as much as your mind does and they can be slow to respond

confidence cant be found in any book,class or advise

i must be a maverick too.
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  #14  
Old 09-09-2008, 07:58 PM
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suburbanartists suburbanartists is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

That guy reminds me of my brothers old college roommate. Pretty damn good caricature of him from the front.
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  #15  
Old 09-09-2008, 08:01 PM
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chris 71 chris 71 is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

hi i think 4 hours is not very long at all if you do want a little more realistic look just keep going. adding and subtracting material look in a mirror or picture off and on if you like. but the key i think is to just keep going adding and subtracting you wiil all of the sudden see something you reconize maybe also try some sort of small knife
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  #16  
Old 09-10-2008, 06:09 AM
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racine racine is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

can i say i like it -and just go ahead and enjoy yourself.
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  #17  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:12 AM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Quote:
Originally Posted by racine View Post
can i say i like it -and just go ahead and enjoy yourself.
This type of critique reminds me of why many art schools fail to produce artists who know how to problem solve and realize their full potential.
Nescup is perfectly capable of doing his own thing and enjoying himself.
What he came to this forum for was to learn how to better realize the vision in his mind that he recognizes is far from his grasp at the moment. That means, showing or telling him what steps he can take to improve.

Because there are sound steps one can take, and paths with those steps laid out by the many pioneers who have gone before us, Nescup can be confident that with determined application he can advance to where he wants to be, rather than floundering in a profound state of disatisfaction due to a beginners' grasp of the issues and no one to point the way beyond a " looks great" brush-off when he knows it doesn't. Confidence is not about fooling yourself into thinking everything you produce is marvelous. It is about knowing that you have the mental and physical tools to realize the ideas you have, and knowing you gave it your all.

Fortunately, some here have offered some good advice and sincere encouragement. It is not about following any "style" other than what he will develop over time as his own. At this stage, it is about learning and mastering the basics of sound anatomical construction first, and then seeing what he can do with that foundation.
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  #18  
Old 09-10-2008, 11:42 AM
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cheesepaws cheesepaws is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Quote:
Originally Posted by racine View Post
can i say i like it -and just go ahead and enjoy yourself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT View Post
This type of critique reminds me of why many art schools fail to produce artists who know how to problem solve and realize their full potential.
I've never say that in my class room nor have I ever heard anything similar from my mentors/instructors. I can't even think of a teaching colleague who would be tempted to say such a thing (and that is a pretty wide cross section of teaching pedagogies).

Art programs have faults, but I don't think promoting this kind of attitude is among them.
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  #19  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:37 PM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Right on Cheese...never uttered it nor have I heard that one (or variations) in any classrooms either.
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  #20  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:51 PM
SPRINGFIELD SPRINGFIELD is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

I see some positive things. First and I think very important your sculpture has a three demsional look to it. By that I mean your thinking in terms of roundness and porportion. This is a good sign I Think because my earlier sculptures looked more like I was trying to draw with the clay rather than sculp a three deminisonal object. In other words in the extreme example my sculpture of a head would look more like a square block with a nose and ears stuck on it. I still have to fight this tendency to sculpt this way even 20 years later.
What type of modeling material are you using?
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  #21  
Old 09-10-2008, 01:18 PM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

For clarification, I refer to a general focus on the, "Express yourself" philosophy versus, " We realize you are here to learn, so here are some helpful techniques that require some disciplined application. You can do your own thing later after you have demonstrated a grasp of our methods as a base level of competence."
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  #22  
Old 09-10-2008, 09:10 PM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT View Post
You can do your own thing later after you have demonstrated a grasp of our methods as a base level of competence."
with this kind of 'encouragement' ?
with everybody being so helpful perhaps there is scope in saying 'just let rip and see what happens, be yrself' i seem to remember the first lesson i learnt at art school, not to call any one 'sir'.
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  #23  
Old 09-10-2008, 09:55 PM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Quote:
Originally Posted by racine View Post
with this kind of 'encouragement' ?
with everybody being so helpful perhaps there is scope in saying 'just let rip and see what happens, be yrself' i seem to remember the first lesson i learnt at art school, not to call any one 'sir'.
What is encouraging is knowing that the teacher takes you seriously enough to give you the tools to succeed, and the extra push needed to transcend former states until a self-confidence occurs as the result of actual accomplishment.

A teacher who looks at whatever you produce and gives you this: along with, " That's great! Have a nice life!", is neither taking you seriously nor preparing you to deal with real challenges.

Encouragement given along the way as small steps are mastered is a part of that process.
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  #24  
Old 09-10-2008, 11:16 PM
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT View Post
This type of critique reminds me of why many art schools fail to produce artists who know how to problem solve and realize their full potential.
Nescup is perfectly capable of doing his own thing and enjoying himself.
What he came to this forum for was to learn how to better realize the vision in his mind that he recognizes is far from his grasp at the moment. That means, showing or telling him what steps he can take to improve.

Because there are sound steps one can take, and paths with those steps laid out by the many pioneers who have gone before us, Nescup can be confident that with determined application he can advance to where he wants to be, rather than floundering in a profound state of disatisfaction due to a beginners' grasp of the issues and no one to point the way beyond a " looks great" brush-off when he knows it doesn't. Confidence is not about fooling yourself into thinking everything you produce is marvelous. It is about knowing that you have the mental and physical tools to realize the ideas you have, and knowing you gave it your all.

Fortunately, some here have offered some good advice and sincere encouragement. It is not about following any "style" other than what he will develop over time as his own. At this stage, it is about learning and mastering the basics of sound anatomical construction first, and then seeing what he can do with that foundation.
you just take all the fun out of it Glenl.
if i had worried about perfection i would have stop at the first failure
but i still sold those failures and still do.( confidence, nothing else needed,no big head either)

Nescup is a maverick or he would have posted after hours and hours of study.
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  #25  
Old 09-11-2008, 09:02 AM
nescup nescup is offline
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Re: I wish i knew how to sculp... pics inside first try... not good

Hello

The first thing i want to say is thank you very much to everyone who has taken the time to comment

I have taken everything you have said on board and really appreciate the advice you have given me

Believe it or not but this was the first time i ever picked up clay, prior to this i never felt the texture, the weight, or the smell so it was a nice feeling handling it

I now have some tools, a few dvds, and some reference materials

When i sculpted the above piece it came from within me i didn’t have any pictures to go by i just followed the flow and this was what i produced

SPRINGFIELD

The clay i used was Chavant NSP



Thank you again to everyone
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