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  #176  
Old 12-29-2006, 07:37 AM
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tonofelephant tonofelephant is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Could not find the image with Tlouis message. Try this one - http://www.art-exchange.com/search_r...spx?ArtId=1201

Carl
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  #177  
Old 12-29-2006, 08:22 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Carl, thanks for the link. The indicated price is $45,000. It looks life-size to me, but at this price the space allocated for size shows only 0" x 0" x 0".

Anyway, I did a search and find the link Tluois was trying to show but didn't show up. The link is below with site pictures of the statue and some more interesting information on its story.

Decision Pending

"Decision Pending" a now ironic title for a powerful bronze piece by Detroit area sculptor Jay Holland.

This sculpture is part of a two year rotating public art program in Brighton. The idea is to get some culture into the sterile lilly-white sheltered environs of the town of Brighton. Well, to be fair to 99.99999% of the residents, everybody seems to be receptive to the project.

Ah, but these things tend to flush out the freaks and culturally depraved. . .

From the local Brighton paper, to the local Channel 2/4 and 7 news shows, the same mantra - from ONE person !


Brighton resident Susan Walters-Steinacker, one of those who called the office of state Sen. Valde Garcia, R-Marion Township, said she was driving by the Mill Pond when she first saw the sculpture and was shocked. She later walked up to the sculpture to verify the piece was anatomically correct from both the front and back.

"I am disgusted, I am appalled," Walters-Steinacker said.

If she visited a museum with sculptures that "have those things," Walters-Steinacker said she could at least walk away, but Holland's sculpture is located in a public area where everyone has to see it.

"This is embarrassing to me, as an adult, to have it thrown in my face," she said.

Walters-Steinacker said she feels uncomfortable and wouldn't take her grandchildren to the Mill Pond as long as that statue was there. She doesn't feel parents should be forced to explain these pieces of art that, she said, are being thrown into people's faces. She questioned how Brighton, which prides itself on being family-oriented, could justify having a naked statue on display in public.

"It needs to go," she said. ......

Somebody shocked that a sculpture would actually have one of those "things". Well heres some news for you lady HALF OF THE WORLDS PEOPLE HAVE THOSE "THINGS". .....

Heres the response from the State Rep that the woman called to complain to:

"My personal opinion is it's great to have art in the community, but some pieces are best left in the museum," (Republican State Sen. Valde Garcia) said. "Nude sculptures are considered to be art, but why do we have a sculpture of a naked man in public?" ....

And whats worse is that local media picks it up and runs with it for several days, encoraging such childish behavior. "Look, it has a pee-pee!"
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  #178  
Old 12-29-2006, 09:02 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

*LOL* That's just being silly to be upset about that sculpture. It's not offensive, a bit lumpy maybe but hardly offensive.
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  #179  
Old 12-29-2006, 10:36 AM
Tlouis Tlouis is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Hi All

The irony in all this is that--from my experience anyway--kids who see sculpture of nude men or women usually just giggle and walk on. They're not shocked or traumatized in any way, and soon forget what they've seen. It's the adults that put a nasty spin on nude sculpture.

This woman has grand children? Pity the poor kids.

Get a life grandma!

Y'all have a great and sculpture rich New Year.

Lou

PS I wrote this while semi-nude wearing just a pair of shorts. Hope no one is offended.
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  #180  
Old 12-29-2006, 10:53 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tlouis
PS I wrote this while semi-nude wearing just a pair of shorts. Hope no one is offended.
How are we going to believe you Tlouis? Unless you take and show us a picture of you like this.
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  #181  
Old 12-29-2006, 11:23 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Hey Mr. Chillin in your shorts half nude , just out of curiosity are you cool with your grandchildren seeing this artists work live and 8 feet tall?


http://www.saatchi-gallery.co.uk/art...ny_saville.htm

It's a serious question, cause I wouldn't have wanted to see it as a kid or even a teenager. To be honest I liked my innocence for as long as it lasted and this would have made sex in the future a weird thing for me that had to be absolved/gotten over in order to really enjoy without strange mental flashes during the act which probably would have been mixed up with dead cows and corpulent pigs not to mention he-she’s.

Life’s weird enough you know? And let's face it, women with uncomfortable associations in their sex lives make for men who don't get..... er, uhm...
Why mess with a good thing right?

Nudity particularly romantic nudity (as in the classics) = good thing.
Scary nudity= bad thing.
Lines can be a good thing. Think self preservation of happiness.
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Last edited by MountainSong : 12-29-2006 at 11:50 AM.
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  #182  
Old 12-29-2006, 11:40 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

innocence ain't 'bout what you see
it's more about what you think or feel
"eye of the beholder" and all that

about the above, ... static pose, lumpy and not very interesting fersure

as to children, mine grew up with my models and sculptures and ain't suffered from it.
if anything, they're a tad more conservative than their old dad
very noticeable when i wish to discuss their sex-lives, and when I mention their parent's sex lives, they almost hold their hands over their ears and dance arround chanting la-la-la-la-la-

the population decline in the industrialized world may be directly tied to the repugnant repression of seeing and or sculpting the figure in all it's beauty.
Can we as a species will ourselves into extinction?
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  #183  
Old 12-29-2006, 11:46 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

So you went to the link, looked at Jenny Seville's work, maybe googled her name to see more and are totally comfortable with it or are you just generalizing?

Really I want to know. Did your kids grow up with work like this or more classical nudity?
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  #184  
Old 12-29-2006, 01:50 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

"Nudity particularly romantic nudity (as in the classics) = good thing.
Scary nudity= bad thing.
Lines can be a good thing. Think self preservation of happiness."

How can you generalize something like that? It is like saying there is no gray only black and white.

To use well-established examples, look at Francis Bacon's work, or going back further Goya's "Chronos Eating His Children."
Scary? YES. Good thing? YES. Something you want to hang in your kitchen, your bedroom, or a child's room? Probably NOT.

Jenny Saville's work may not be easy to live with, but trying to hide it from children simply provides more power to the image when it is seen later. By allowing it to be seen and processed by the 'innocent' minds the concepts it represents can be put in perspective by the questions it gives rise to, and the comments/reactions the surrounding adults give it. Being exposed to it — in public places such as museums and galleries — can only broaden the horizons of a growing mind and prevent the child from inhabiting an insular make-believe utopia that has nothing to do with the real world.

Happiness is a relative thing too — in this increasingly fragmented (pluralistic) world are you saying ignorance is bliss? Rather than being like the proverbial ostrich hiding its head in the sand, I have always found it is only by observing and being curious about everything that I can see distinguish the difference between fool's gold and the real treasures in our world. The more you know the more discriminating your perceptions — and that is what I want my children to learn.

Don
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  #185  
Old 12-29-2006, 03:12 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

I'd pretty much echo what Don has said.
Mountainsong - not sure what you mean by scary nudity.
Is it
male nudity = OK
female nudity = OK
transgender nudity = Not OK ?
Remember that the nude portrait is of a real person - a member of our community.
As for kids - its important that adults model a calm, no fuss response. Like Lou, my experience has been that kids' response to nude art is to just giggle and walk on.
And as for the carcass & pigs belly although they are rounded, fecund images they don't read as sexual to me. None of theses images would arise for me during the, um, act. Although my own belly has a porcine quality - sorry too much information.

James
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  #186  
Old 12-29-2006, 03:29 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Hi All

Sorry the address link in my previous post was inadequate. The following will get you to the additional pictures:

http://www.detroitfunk.com/2006/06/1...on_pending.htm

MountainSong: Had I been blessed with grandchildren I would not have covered their eyes when passing Mr Hollands nude man. And I would have answered any questions they might have had as directly and honestly as possible. Kids know a damn sight more than we think they do--and I speak from experience--so trying to deflect their curosity with obfuscating answers will only make them more curious and send the message that THIS isn't to be spoken about. Which would only raise more questions and might send them to less than nice adults, ie swaggering, foul-mouthed teenagers to get the answers they seek. It did me.

As for explaining Jenny Saville's painting of a hermaphrodite...well, that would be a tough call. I doubt if any explanation would satisfy a child younger than say 13 or 14.

Let's not anyone overdo the New Year's champagne. There's nothing worse than a champagne hangover.

Merlion. I didn't post pictures of my corpus humani nudi because I didn't want any kiddies out there to fall down laughing, nor did I want to cause any grandma's to have impure thoughts.

Lou

Don't know why link address shows up missiing three letters. It's decision_pending.htm

Last edited by Tlouis : 12-29-2006 at 03:48 PM.
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  #187  
Old 12-30-2006, 01:22 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Quote:
Originally Posted by dondougan
"Nudity particularly romantic nudity (as in the classics) = good thing.
Scary nudity= bad thing.
Lines can be a good thing. Think self preservation of happiness."

How can you generalize something like that? It is like saying there is no gray only black and white.
I'm saying there's gray, black and white - not just gray. And each of use must determine for ourselves what the percentages are for each of those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dondougan
To use well-established examples, look at Francis Bacon's work, or going back further Goya's "Chronos Eating His Children."
Scary? YES. Good thing? YES. Something you want to hang in your kitchen, your bedroom, or a child's room? Probably NOT.

Jenny Saville's work may not be easy to live with, but trying to hide it from children simply provides more power to the image when it is seen later. By allowing it to be seen and processed by the 'innocent' minds the concepts it represents can be put in perspective by the questions it gives rise to, and the comments/reactions the surrounding adults give it. Being exposed to it — in public places such as museums and galleries — can only broaden the horizons of a growing mind and prevent the child from inhabiting an insular make-believe utopia that has nothing to do with the real world.
Not following you on this one. I'm talking about not dragging my kids off to see it. They'd rather be playing ball with their friends anyway and by the time they do see it, in their teens or early twenties, they'll take it in stride most likely. There is a natural unfolding of events that happens if we go with the flow in life and don't push the envelope all the time.
As far and the comment on 'inhabiting an insular make-believe utopia, I don't know how, nor why you would want to stop this in a child, it's part of the chemical make up of their brain at the younger ages and slowly dissipates as they move into puberty and is as it should be - they do not live in the real world as we adults see it and shouldn't have to either.



Quote:
Originally Posted by dondougan
Happiness is a relative thing too — in this increasingly fragmented (pluralistic) world are you saying ignorance is bliss? Rather than being like the proverbial ostrich hiding its head in the sand, I have always found it is only by observing and being curious about everything that I can see distinguish the difference between fool's gold and the real treasures in our world. The more you know the more discriminating your perceptions — and that is what I want my children to learn.
Yep, not agreeing here either.
Ignorance is not to be confused with unintelligence. Ignorance is lack of exposure of information, intelligence is the capacity for learning and faculty for understanding.

I’ve traveled extensively in third world undeveloped countries and you know what? They are happier people than people of the first world. They laugh, quicker, longer and more heartily, they help each other out more, and they are far less jaded and cynical. They hardly own a thing and that’s just not very important to them - family, friends and community are however.

Now you could take them and put them in the first world with all its
technology, superior infrastructure, vaccinations, cool gadgets, instant communication and amazing entertainment complexes and they’d think they’d died and gone to heaven once they got over the shock of it all. It’d be a premier experience for them.
But you can’t take us and put us in their world and expect us to be as happy as they are because we take with us the knowledge of nuclear bombs, chemical warfare, bio-terrorism, disease, genetic altering, instant communication, home delivered food, modern utilities and sewage, instant world news, caffeine, the world wide web, 401 k’s, movies, pain pills, etc.

Normalcy to us is extremely stimulating by any other standards than our own, it’s highly customized, fast paced and extremely convenient, it’s a billion GB of information and entertainment coming at us from all sides.
Let’s face it, we as a society stand in danger of becoming terminally bored if all this stimulation ever stops or slows down. And to keep getting our dosages of stimulation we have to expose ourselves to more and more ‘stuff’. (does current cutting edge art spell this out or what??) The Romans did that – didn’t work out for them so well…..an entire civilization who fell into complete apathy and then out of existence right. So yah, ignorance can be bliss.
So if you want to go see all this stuff and take your kids with you – go for it. Me and mine will pace ourselves so there’ still some stuff to be experienced and some flavor to life at 80- 90 yrs old.






Don[/quote]
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  #188  
Old 12-30-2006, 01:27 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesW
I'd pretty much echo what Don has said.
Mountainsong - not sure what you mean by scary nudity.
Is it
male nudity = OK
female nudity = OK
transgender nudity = Not OK ?
Remember that the nude portrait is of a real person - a member of our community.

James
Well sure James, I'll go with that. I'm not in a particularly PC kinda mood today.
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  #189  
Old 12-30-2006, 03:45 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Here's another, in Jamaica http://www.geocities.com/emancipationstatues/
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  #190  
Old 12-30-2006, 11:09 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

AH, I hope they don't recall them, they are really rather nice.
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  #191  
Old 01-03-2007, 08:30 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

I remember going to the National Gallery when I was 11 and seeing a nude sculpture. I remember viewing it. I don't recall any lewd thoughts about it though I do remember having them while at that age and often since. Never has a piece of art created the type of reaction I got from sneaking peeks at my father's Playboy magazines and while my wife's nephew was sneaking peeks at a brighly painted nude on the livingroom wall while visiting last summer I don't think he paid the slightest attention to any of my sculptures, some of which are fairly graphic, being much more interested in the cats. Most everybody has seen animals copulate before they are told about what it is they are doing and since everyone alive has a body it shouldn't be a big mystery. The chick with the dick would be a bit over the line for public viewing but to each his own and if someone wants to hang that in their house, let them.

Thatch
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  #192  
Old 01-05-2007, 06:04 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

going back to the lions at the shopping centre, maybe we missed the point. Perhaps it was not graphic realism that was the problem, but the symbolism. A hungry developer devours the landscape for another pointless consumerist centre, rapacious businesses devour their customers, greedy consumers eat up the earth... so no wonder lions eating their prey were disturbing symbols for adults to see outside a shopping centre...

Now why didn't they commission a piece about the lion lying down with the lamb?
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  #193  
Old 02-08-2007, 04:15 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

I have been waiting to see how China takes to public nude sculptures. Here is one news story, very short, no photo. I tried to search for it but no luck so far. From what we can read into it, the newspaper seems to be neutral about this.

Guangzhou is a very commercial and dynamic city near Hong Kong.

Nude sculpture creates stir

Guangzhou Sculpture Park has caused a controversy by displaying a sculpture of a naked woman in a prominent position.

The naked woman sculpture, on display since last week, was carved by Tang Daxi, a well-known local sculptor, showing the brave and healthy image of a girl.

Many local residents complained the sculpture was dirty and did not keep with Chinese tradition. Others, including many artists, praise the sculpture, saying it's a great artwork.


For those with further interest, China's online newspapers by now do not hesitate to show news worthy semi-nude photos. Here is one example.

The undressing Harry Potter star
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  #194  
Old 02-09-2007, 02:03 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

I did a little image searching just for the heck of it, I found one more different photo of that 1st century BC Pan & goat marble sculpture than I have, same frontal view but higher angle, so far for some reason I have not found any other views of the sides, or the back.
It appears to be on a pedistal or table up against the wall or something.

The one I found tonight had a photographers name on it which led me to a Greek mythology site which led me to the author of the site which is in English, the photo caption is in Italian so I figured the site author would be the better one to email.

Gruppo Marmoeo de Pan e Capra. Ercolana
Photo (C) Maicar Forlag- GML

I emailed the site author just now to inquire- shake the tree and see what falls out

http://www.sculpture.net/community/a...achmentid=3091

I also found this article on the museum where this is, relevent to this thread in how these works found in Pompei were and basically stilla re kept locked up behind closed doors;

Robert Fulford's column about the erotic art of Pompeii

(The National Post, December 5, 2000) In the National Archeological Museum in Naples, right beside two large public rooms crammed with masterpieces found in the buried city of Pompeii, black iron gates and a surly attendant stand guard over a space called the Gabinetto Segretto, the secret room. This is the new repository for the erotic art that has created both scandal and delight ever since archeologists of Pompeii began uncovering it in the 18th century.



Giuseppe Garibaldi's government in the 1860s let the public see it, but when power passed to the Savoy kings, they buried the collection again. It was largely hidden during the period of Benito Mussolini, from 1922 to 1943. Even in the late 1940s, anyone wishing to see it needed written permission from a government official, attesting to serious purpose (there was a brisk trade in counterfeit permits). A special pornography room opened in the 1970s but soon closed, rather mysteriously, for "renovations." This year, after much private twittering, the museum has at last provided its pornographic holdings with what the curators consider an appropriately serious context.

When I was there last week, the otherwise sophisticated guide who was showing a group through the museum said he found the room disgusting and more or less advised us that we could see it at our own moral risk, without him. When entering the museum we had to make a reservation for this one part of the building, precisely scheduling our occasion of sin. There was no extra charge: The museum doesn't want to be seen profiting from pornography.

http://www.robertfulford.com/PompeiiEroticArt.html
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  #195  
Old 03-03-2007, 08:58 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

This is the situation in Singapore on this matter.

Over here the boundary of public taste is slowly being pushed back over the years. But even I have to admit this art gallery is challenging this boundary too boldly and too loud. Bear in mind this is a 4 m (13 ft) tall painting of a nude woman in full frontal pose, displayed in the public atrium of the building housing the government Ministry with portfolio covering the arts. Finally this painting is still being displayed, but inside the art gallery.

Painting Of Nude Woman Prohibited From Public Viewing In Singapore

Feb 28, 2007. An art gallery in Singapore has been told it cannot display a four-metre high painting of a nude woman in the public atrium of a government building, but can show it out of the public's view, a ministry said on Wednesday.

SooBin Art Gallery wanted to showcase the 60,000-US-dollar oil painting by a Beijing artist in the Ministry of Information, Communications and Arts building as part of an exhibition on the ground floor.

Under the Media Development Authority's guidelines, nude or erotic artworks "should not be displayed in venues which are easily accessible to general audiences, including children and youths," The Straits Times quoted a ministry spokesman as saying.

The atrium is a public area and display materials "should not offend general standards of taste and decency," he said, adding the restriction was not a total ban.

The painting depicting a model covered in soap suds against a black backdrop with a parrot flying over her head was on display briefly on Tuesday night during the opening reception for invited guests. Later it was turned to face the wall.

It is the centrepiece of a month-long exhibition by artist Chen Xi, 38. ....
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  #196  
Old 03-04-2007, 09:39 PM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainSong
So you went to the link, looked at Jenny Seville's work, maybe googled her name to see more and are totally comfortable with it or are you just generalizing?

Really I want to know. Did your kids grow up with work like this or more classical nudity?
Yes,
unimpressed
and classical
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  #197  
Old 03-07-2007, 04:02 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlion
Feb 28, 2007. An art gallery in Singapore has been told it cannot display a four-metre high painting of a nude woman in the public atrium of a government building, but can show it out of the public's view, a ministry said on Wednesday.
SooBin Art Gallery wanted to showcase the 60,000-US-dollar oil painting by a Beijing artist in the Ministry of Information, Communications and Arts building as part of an exhibition on the ground floor. ....

The painting depicting a model covered in soap suds against a black backdrop with a parrot flying over her head was on display briefly on Tuesday night during the opening reception for invited guests. Later it was turned to face the wall.

It is the centrepiece of a month-long exhibition by artist Chen Xi, 38. ....
The Art Gallery subsequently moved the huge painting into their Gallery. As their ceiling is not tall enough, they had to place it horizontally.

Now the painting has been sold, at this US$60,000 price, to a Singaporean. It is very fast work. Perhaps the extra publicity helps.

Nude Painting Sold After Singapore Prohibits General Viewing

A 4-metre-high nude painting barred from general public viewing in restrictive Singapore has been sold for 60,000 US dollars to an art collector, the gallery owner said on Wednesday. ....
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  #198  
Old 03-07-2007, 07:03 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Jenny Seville is a recognized painter because of HOW she paints not What she paints. I have seen her gallery shows in soho since she burst in. The paintings are so large that one cannot back away enough to compile the brushstroke information at first, your eyes have to adjust. She slashes meat-colored paint in such a way that you imagine she uses no revision, like a figurative Franz Kline. She has found a subject, herself, that time and again allows her to attack the canvas in the way she feels most effective. It hasn't hurt her rise in the artworld that her self-portraits may be considered "ghastly" (in a good way). But I'm quite sure that if she were to paint a Ceasar's salad instead it woul be one big, giant, ghastly Ceasars salad.

I'd have no problem with my kids seeing her work, my son, 7, would be amazed by her technique and then probably wisecrack about the big naked lady. But I would't want to have to try to explain some of the more challenging Maplethorpe's to him just yet. ("well son, its not about the bullwhip its about his printing quality...") No, not yet.
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  #199  
Old 03-15-2007, 08:52 AM
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

This happens in Norway, in a famous sculpture park. But this is not censorship by the authorities, but by someone under the cover of darkness.

Vigeland statues censored

The famed nude statues that fill the Vigeland Sculpture Park in Oslo were censored overnight.

Early morning strollers in Oslo's famous park on Thursday could note with surprise that someone had taken the time to hang bars of black paper over every sex organ and buttock cleft in the series of statues on the park bridge.




Only the best known figure, the furious child known as Sinnataggen, was allowed to stay uncovered. All other figures on the bridge, regardless of size or what was exposed, were given the black bars usually seen in censored material.

"There is too much nudity in newspapers and magazines, so here on the bridge the limit has been reached!" read a note left behind from the person or persons who used the cover of night to leave this unique editorial statement on one of Norway's best-known tourist landmarks......
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Old 03-15-2007, 11:02 AM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Public displaying of Nude Art

Dateline 2007, New world Order Times:

Everyone on Earth woke up today to find their genetalia had disappeared. Also, there were notes left in every home written in goldleaf on parchement paper that read, " There is too much nudity in the world, so I decided it had to stop. GOD "
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