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  #1  
Old 01-10-2010, 02:56 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
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Why Beauty Matters........

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65Ypz...eature=related

G
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  #2  
Old 01-10-2010, 05:01 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

If theres anyone NOT to trust about what is and isnt Art its a philosopher. I'd soone hear such debate by the poets. This thinker here has proven himself easily as gullible and intellectually victimized as everyone else who believes that those museumed silly charades are actually passing for Art. Hah, what a dope, he has chosen to base his entire criticism of contemporary man and society upon a few hyped and celebrated debacles that have been falsly called Art by institutions, critics and silly-sayers...others scribblers mostly. This guy is clue-less. More later.
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  #3  
Old 01-10-2010, 05:34 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Alas, poor Rorick, or Roger, having the misfortune to be a philospher instead of an artist, and therefore having thoughts and ideas that are essentially worthless in evaldartland.

Is Roger actually fooled by charade-ists such as Duchamp, or rather stepping into the ring to mud wrestle the the muddle-headed who believe in Duchamp, Hirst, etc.? Perhaps he is merely getting mud on his suit just long enough to liberate some people, and then he will happily take a shower and cleanse himself of the nonsense. In any case he won't get a fair hearing with e unless he hires a court-appointed artist to speak on his behalf.
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:05 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

No one forced him to be a philosopher. Elevated THINKING is all well and good but when it is not accompanied by a confrontation with reality it remains fantasy. And the usual blaming of Duchamp and the fountain piece proves he hasnt a drop of creativity. In the same way that Duchamp eventually chose no longer to recognize the word "art", there is also no use for the word "beauty". When he asserts that "beauty" is "not just subjective" he is absolutely wrong and any argument that might occur thereafter is ruined. If there is a use for the word "beauty" it is mandatory that it be seen as being among the MOST subjective things possible. More later again.

Wheres Cantab? He needs to weigh in here.
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  #5  
Old 01-10-2010, 06:19 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

As an aside, if 10,000 people at random are asked if they consider the Mona Lisa, Michelangelo's Pieta, the Venus de Milo, or other such works to be beautiful, and the overwhelming majority, if not all 10,000 answer in the affirmative, does this not speak to some aspects of beauty going beyond merely a matter of subjective interpretation?
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  #6  
Old 01-10-2010, 06:46 PM
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Aaron Schroeder Aaron Schroeder is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Would those 10,000 folks associate beauty with femininity or masculinity ?

What formal element/depiction would most randomly poled individuals agree as being " beautiful " ?

Would we get more out of this thread if we substituted the word beauty with sexy.

Why sexy matters.........

Sexy being perhaps a little less subjective than beauty.
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2010, 07:03 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

the mere concurring of masses of people has NO bearing on the meaning, fortification-of or validity of an utterance. The ten thousand are dumber for their numbers. One earned thought is way better than the "mean" of the conclusions of any amount of thought-sharers.

If there is a person out there who has come to his conclusion that the Pieta is "ugly" and not Art at all then it is quite so. But such a surmising must come about by the laborious uniqueness that is his own isolated awareness. If it has come out of a childishly cynical desire just to be contrary, then he has merely executed yet another trivial thought brought about by the influence of those dull masses he is amongst. Disagreeing with the dullards does not an un-dullard make.

I personally value the thing that is the Pieta as an example of extremely elevated creativity. If I call it "beautiful" in conversation folks will know how I feel about it. But inside my head the "beauty" is just a recalled sound. All the good that is that sculpture is perceived quite without the use of any damned word that would likely only serve to misrepresent (to myself) my true feelings on the matter.

One thing the old codger got right. Art is NOT an idea, that proves he's made it a little further along intellectually than most.
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2010, 07:25 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
the mere concurring of masses of people has NO bearing on the meaning, fortification-of or validity of an utterance. The ten thousand are dumber for their numbers. One earned thought is way better than the "mean" of the conclusions of any amount of thought-sharers.
You are skirting the issue here. Your claim was that beauty is entirely subjective. If 10,000, or more likely, 1 billion people would have an affirmative response that a given work of art is beautiful, to me that indicates that something is at work beyond 10,000 or 1 billion subjective coincidences. Some universal quality that is objective enough to register multiple similar subjective responses. Perhaps rather than considering the "masses" dumb, perhaps those who understand and utilize beauty to move the masses are, dare I say, smart?


Whether you care to assign meaning or validity to the word beauty is more akin to issues for philosophers and such humans who are apparently lesser beings than artists to discuss. Do you really want to go there?
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2010, 08:04 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Artists have always done more of the "right" kind of thinking than philosophers. Philosophers "creative" output manifests itself as long-winded goose-chases dreamed-up under the pompous pretense of seeking answers and solutions. They pretend to be "clearing things up" or illuminating when actually they are ever only thickening the stew of befuddlement to any who might have a taste. They'll rant about the "unknowable" yet suggest to thier bored audience that they "know" it. Ha. And the ones who dont want to strain their brains become historians...and apply their smidgen of creativity to re-arrange and fictionalize events. At least the poets (who do all that same stuff) engage their medium (words) with the intent of "excessing" it into something new. ALL thoughts are new...even when they are expressed and documented by the same words.
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2010, 08:30 PM
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chris 71 chris 71 is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

[quote=evaldart;86237]the mere concurring of masses of people has NO bearing on the meaning, fortification-of or validity of an utterance. The ten thousand are dumber for their numbers. One earned thought is way better than the "mean" of the conclusions of any amount of thought-sharers.
QUOTE]

this reminded me of one of my fav quotes by a philosopher.

"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual." Galileo Galilei

only i like to replace science with art
i would think your a Philosophers to e but maybe a little different in that you are preaching your ideas along with your manipulating of matter in your reality as well?
not sure if that make sence but...
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  #11  
Old 01-10-2010, 08:54 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why Beauty Matters........

Quote:
you are preaching your ideas
maybe more like spouting, which somehow is ay less invasive. Preachers attempt to pour stuff directly into your head. Spouters just put it out there. If someone wants it, they have to scoop the foam and spittle from the ground.
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