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  #1  
Old 01-13-2009, 09:21 AM
RWJR RWJR is offline
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Sec. of Arts petition

thought I'd pass this on http://www.petitiononline.com/esnyc/petition.html
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  #2  
Old 01-13-2009, 10:03 AM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Sec. of Arts petition

Why do we need yet another bloated bureaucratic trough from which to slop the pigs on capitol hill, while passing petty favors on to the loudest lobbyists?
Just because it would involve the arts?
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:17 PM
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Ries Ries is offline
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Re: Sec. of Arts petition

Umm- maybe because if government doesnt spend money on the arts, which benefits communities spiritually, economically, and aestheically, they will, instead, spend the money on Bridges to Nowhere, more bombers, Halliburton, and bailing out billionaires.

Government funding is not going away, just cause we dont like what they spend it on- the pigs will find their troughs.

Arts spending, on the other hand, has been proven again and again to be more bang for the buck, affecting more people, and almost universally, people who DO NOT get money from the government in any other form- ballet dancers and school children, seniors and poets.

The choice is not to spend on the arts, or not spend.
The choice is to spend money on the arts, or on other, usually worse, things.

There is hardly a dancer, poet, painter, or composer among all the lobbyists, congressmen, and aides on Capitol Hill- they wont be getting any of this money. They got plenty of bigger troughs already.
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  #4  
Old 01-13-2009, 02:51 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Sec. of Arts petition

So, because all those other folks are getting some undeserved pie, we should have ours too? When does it end? Do we need a federal secretary of sewing circles? Do we need a secretary of sports? We have come quite a way from the founding father's wisdom and their concept of limited government, and it is not a good way, especially in this regard: when we look to the federal government as the answer and source for all things, we disempower ourselves. We also hamstring economic growth, the effects of which we are seeing today and seems possibly headed towards beyond belief with the Raw Deal-bailouts for every poor decision- method of government intervention.
How many additional programs and added debt can taxpayers shoulder before they are working mainly to support the government, not their families?
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:20 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Sec. of Arts petition

But tell us how you really feel, Glenn.. ( you have a bit of spittle on your cheek)
Understandably, it is difficult for a large entity to do everything well, so folks pass things off to people who know what they're doing. But there's so many gaps where people haven't picked up the slack/ lack of services.. You just gonna tell them sorry, nobody's interested in you, tough beans.?.. or do you recognize the need and make do with everyone pitching in a little, making the effort... many hands make light work.
There's already too many people with the "every man for himself" attitude. I don't think it's benefitted folks as much as they like to think.
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:18 PM
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Re: Sec. of Arts petition

Arts funding is not undeserved pie.
Arts funding pays back more than it costs, in actual tax income to local government, in jobs generated, and additional spending.

Military spending, on the other hand, is exactly what you described. And our current budget is over $500 Billion, PLUS what the wars, the "black budget", and all the intelligence services cost. Round it off to a cool Trillion a year, plus or minus.

Seems to me that we could cut a half trillion of somebody else's undeserved pie, fund the arts, and still save hundreds of billions in tax dollars.

As long as we are talking pie in the sky, here...
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Old 01-13-2009, 04:39 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Sec. of Arts petition

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
But tell us how you really feel, Glenn.. ( you have a bit of spittle on your cheek)

That's not spittle, its drool left over from deep sleep.

Understandably, it is difficult for a large entity to do everything well, so folks pass things off to people who know what they're doing.

So who do you nominate for Secretary of Arts who knows what they're doing? Oprah Winfrey? Norman Mailer? Judge Judy? Or someone as unbiased as me?

But there's so many gaps where people haven't picked up the slack/ lack of services.. You just gonna tell them sorry, nobody's interested in you, tough beans.?..

My gosh, we've been at this for 230 years without a Secretary of Arts! How could all of this art have happened without a government bureaucracy in control?


or do you recognize the need and make do with everyone pitching in a little, making the effort... many hands make light work.
There's already too many people with the "every man for himself" attitude. I don't think it's benefitted folks as much as they like to think.
I'm looking forward to getting my free handout from the government, since there would obviously be no bias in determining who is worthy, nor any controls, standards, or agenda as to what art I must produce with the money.
Probably no accountablility either. Sound just about perfect!
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Old 01-13-2009, 06:54 PM
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Re: Sec. of Arts petition

Glenn, I believe that is called the "straw man" theory of discussion- you make up a straw man, attach every possible bad thing to it, and then give it a hefty kick.

Its fun, but not in any way connected to reality.

There is no arts funding, current or proposed, that meets any of your criteria.

Free Handouts?
No Controls?
No Accountability?

Never heard of any arts funding anything like that.

Even the long gone, as in close to 20 years ago, individual grants from the NEA, required accountability, and writing a proposal and then following up on it with a final report- and, as mentioned, those have been obsolete since before either of my kids were born.

Arts funding today usually means extensive vetting by panels of knowledgeable people in the field, lots of proposals with explicit details, VERY large contracts with a lot of legalese, payments that are based on matching grants, and so on.

I often get 100 to 200 page contracts, requiring state and local business licences, $1 Million dollars of liability insurance, detailed drawings, engineering, and then constant followup by govt agencies. I have had inspectors in my studio making sure I am doing things right.

Similar restrictions apply to most any arts money recepients, be they dance troupes, school arts teaching programs, music festivals, opera, art museums, or any of the other top dollar getters of federal and state arts funds.

Nobody gets any free handouts.
Instead, there are usually underpaid administrators who could make double or triple in the private sector, running museums, festivals, and theaters because they love what they do and believe in it, cobbling together budgets from many sources, always, in my experience, a mix of public and private.
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  #9  
Old 01-13-2009, 08:33 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Sec. of Arts petition

Ries, I was being faceitious to make my point. Grommet was sounding as though she believed that the Secretary of Arts position was going to result in handouts to needy artists who otherwise could not make it.

My point, obtuse as it may have been because I have to amuse myself somehow thinking about this nonsense, was that in fact, if such a position were created, it would be like any other government entity where it becomes its own self-sustaining fiefdom with a bottomless money supply from Joe middleclass's wallet, going to feed whatever agenda-driven cause celebre of the moment makes their shennaigans appear legitimate. The controls would be most visible in how the programs were formulated to further an agenda rather than to promote the finest and best art possible.

Example:

Calls for art: " Rappin' For Diversity" $100,000 in ten grants available for videographers, musicians, poets, and writers who want to tell the story of how rap culture has united the diverse factions of the inner city urban culture into one big fun-loving hip hop nation. Special preference given for people of color, people of stripes or plaids, people who had color but are now anemic, gender-issue identity-theft video game wizards with disabilities, and ex-mormons with control and authority issues. For prospectus, go to wnw.secretaryofthearts.us.gov.fleecey'all.org

Last edited by GlennT : 01-13-2009 at 08:36 PM. Reason: oops, I actually created an url. don't want this to gain any traction!
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