Artist liability

[Mack]

With the possibility of a commission of a large bronze public piece, what is the artist's responsibility for possible problems that occur down the road i.e.patina problems, vandalism etc. If for example there is a structural flaw due to an error or negligence at the foundry, is the repair the artist's responsibility? For how long is the artist responsible for something that could happen to the work?

[Ries]

You need a contract that spells all this out.
With public commissions from any governmental body, they will MAKE you sign a contract.
With a private commission, you may have to come up with the contract yourself.
You should be able to get a sample contract from state or local arts commissions, if you need one for a template.

Usually, you will specifically agree on a "warranty period"- usually one year- during which, if anything fails, you, the artist, are responsible.

Also, every public agency like a city or state that I have ever dealt with (and, between my wife and I, we have done something like 40 of these) REQUIRES you to carry a $1 Million dollar liability policy, along with auto insurance, and to carry state approved workers comp and other health and disability insurance for any employees you have.

They will also usually require you to have stamped engineering drawings for most public work. If its a cast bronze piece, the engineer wont engineer your sculpture, but will detail your footings, or baseplates, bolts, and so on.
This shifts some responsiblity to the engineer, and his or her insurance.

As far as your responsiblity down the road- usually, beyond the one year period, you are not liable-
But, and its a big but- anybody can sue you at any time, in our wonderful country.
Its a risk you run.
Unless your artwork actually kills somebody, its unlikely you will be sued, but, you never know.

You want a safe, predictable, risk free life, dont quit your day job- being an artist is dangerous and exciting!

[Mack]

Thanks for that. I have no employees and since my foundry will cast, patina and install this , I think that they will warranty the work, patina, and installation etc. for some time period. Engineers will be involved if this is accepted. Since as you say : "one can be sued at anytime" I think an LLC would be a prudent move for me if I get this commission. Thanks again

[evaldart]

I have insurance for that, had it for 16 years now...I have at least 50 things (alot more if you count the little turds) out in public and private situations (parks, gardens, collections, breezeways, quadrangles, campuses, compounds, estates, corporate headquarters, front yards, back yards, alleyways, intersections, and entranceways) some have bothered me for my insurance info and some havent. Fact is...ya gotta have it for big things...I go disguised as an ornamental/structural ironworker...independent contractor, a million dollar liability never runs more than 500 bucks a year...(identify your medium to a trade if need a specific). MONEY WELL SPENT in a lyin', cheatin, litigious society.

[Mack]

I actually DID quit my day job about 15 years ago and my wife and I have lived well off my sculpture.Everything though has always been through gallery sales and commissions. This would be a first where I would be representing myself. Hence I never had occasion to to consider things like my liability, insurance etc. So thanking you all who have been down this road many times.

[Mack]

Just finished going through the 47 page art commission sample contract with the city of San Fran...! A couple of interesting items: Artist must be a licensed contractor in order to subcontract(foundry etc.) And Artist is responsible for graffiti removal within 48 hours of being notified. Didn't see who pays for that.
Have you run into this in any of your commissions?

[Ries]

I have never heard of either.

There are some occasions where a licensed contractor must do certain work on site- like crane work, or sometimes certified welders- but I have never heard of the ARTIST being required to be a licensed contractor.

I do sometimes hire out stuff that needs paperwork- aforementioned cranes, sometimes electrical must be done by licensed electricians, and so on.
I have only been required to have certified welds ONCE in 30 years- it was for the LA subway- luckily, both of the kids who were working for me at the time had their weld cert cards.
The LA metro actually sent an inspector up to my studio- but that is very, very rare.

You can often pay the general contractor to do stuff you dont want to- or, better yet, get the client to include it in their end.

As for graffiti removal- I have never heard of that. Some governments do their own graffiti removal- my wife has a project in Seattle where they paint out graffiti once or twice a month- but that is not normal, or reasonable, to expect you to do it.

You dont HAVE to sign a contract that has stuff in it you dont want- usually, there can be some give and take. You do sometimes have to hire a lawyer- just part of the cost of doing business.

[Mack]

Let me ask about profit. Say there is a budget for 100,000 to the artist to cover all his/her costs of creating and delivering the finished piece to the site and installing it. Are the costs for scanning, enlarging, molding, casting, finishing and delivery; are these actual costs known to the client(in this case corporation)? Or do you just agree on the 100k and in what increments that will be paid out. I mean are the costs of the enlarging, foundry etc. between you and them and not info shared with your client. And is your profit then whatever is left after everyone has been paid? Thanks.

[Andrew Werby]

Originally Posted by Mack

Let me ask about profit. Say there is a budget for 100,000 to the artist to cover all his/her costs of creating and delivering the finished piece to the site and installing it.

[That's the budget - it's all they're going to spend (if that - they probably left themselves a way to weasel out of the whole thing, even if you've already done most of the work and paid your suppliers.)]

Are the costs for scanning, enlarging, molding, casting, finishing and delivery; are these actual costs known to the client(in this case corporation)?

[Usually, they don't really want to know about that stuff.]

Or do you just agree on the 100k and in what increments that will be paid out. I mean are the costs of the enlarging, foundry etc. between you and them and not info shared with your client.

[You can share them if you want, but all that's your business, not theirs. What you have to do is to make sure that your costs are covered as you go; if you let them get ahead of you, you can be left holding the bag...]

And is your profit then whatever is left after everyone has been paid? Thanks.

[Right, that's your profit (or loss, depending...)]

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com

[Ries]

It aint nobody's business but yours what your costs are, if its a fixed price contract.

If, on the other hand, they are paying you time and materials, well, then, sure, they get to know how much you pay for foundry work.

There are so many factors that affect your cost- and none of em affect your price, to them.

I might have (well, I DO have) a couple of tons of stainless steel sitting around that I bought for other jobs, at lower than current per pound prices. If I use them on my next job, I save the money I would spend on buying new material at today's price. My business, not theirs.

I might get a good deal from a sub contractor due to the volume I have done in the past, or I might be trading a gate to my engineer for work- none of which are any business of my client.

You dont ask if Walmart got a deal on shipping before you buy a DVD player- you pay the listed price.

As far as "profit" goes- well, that is based on experience and luck.
I try to factor in an "artists fee" of about 10% to 20%, depending on the job, and how bad I want to do it.
This would be in ADDITION to paying me, or anybody else, actual labor.
Labor is separate from profit/design fee.
If for some reason I break my arm or something, the work still needs to be done- whether I pay me, or someone else.

I try to include an allocation from each job for overhead- including my insurance, utilities, a studio "rent", consumables, and so on.

The idea is, not to lose money on each job, only to get "exposure" or resume filler. Because down at the grocery store, they wont let me pay for beer with "exposure".

[GlennT]

Originally Posted by Ries

Because down at the grocery store, they wont let me pay for beer with "exposure".

My understanding is that at some places, ladies can get free beer for exposure.

[evaldart]

Yeah, experience. If a commission or job is within my aesthetic realm I can almost come up with a price on the spot. Done far too many. can figure the materials costs by the pound and the only variable might be labor. These days I'm alone so whatever I take-on I gotta do myself. Since I dont let anyone else do anything for me there is maximum profit. I have paid the dues...got the tools (though theres always a wish list) and am outfitted for amost anything in my niche. 'Business'..damned, guess its has to get dealt-with now and then. Its in that other life, though, where it belongs.

[Mack]

Actually it seems like in this country now it's nothing but business..business..business all the time. Thats what it's come down to... I can remember as a kid in Brooklyn in the 40s going to Ebbets Field to watch the 1947 Dodgers play and sit on the fender of Roy Campanella's car to wait for him to come out after the game and say hello and maybe get an autograph... they parked where everyone else did...Duke Snyder even tried to pickup my sister after a game and drive her home...bleacher seats were 25cents...!