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  #1  
Old 04-16-2009, 04:41 PM
Maddie Maddie is offline
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Exclamation HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

I am a student at OCAD (Ontario College of Art & Design). I am posting this in the hopes that I can gain your support. OCAD has announced they are planning to shut down their bronze casting foundry. As a sculpture student, I am devastated by this news. The school has been moving towards design, and I fear that closure of the foundry will destroy OCAD's reputation as a choice school for fine art studies.
For anyone that would like more information, my email is maddie_madelaine@hotmail.com. There is also a facebook group called "SAVE THE OCAD BRONZE FOUNDRY!" which currently has over 500 members. OCAD students and alumni, as well as concerned artists and members of the community have posted their thoughts on this issue. We can use as much support as possible!
Thank you.
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  #2  
Old 04-17-2009, 08:27 AM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

Work by a notable Alumna, Lea Vivot
Titled The Bench of Vice
Location: Prague
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Old 06-11-2009, 08:15 AM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

Maddie,

Do you have an update for us?
Seems like sculpture programs are getting dropped left and right!

Very sad to see.
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:49 PM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

By coincidence I was looking at the course outline for a sculpture program at the longest existing Vancouver BC art school and it was incredibly vague (didnt even cover figure mold making) when compared with a counterpart in Toronto.

I used to always get asked where I learned to work with oil based clay and molds(the school of DIY).
The idea of figure mold making in BC tends to be earthen clay prototypes only and plaster molds. Not much in the way of formal training at any school. Too bad about Ontario.

It seems like a different world compared to the West Coast when it comes to traditional sculpting technique.
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Old 08-12-2011, 09:53 PM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

I found this sad but not uncommon.... unfortunately. At the school that I graduated from, and where I volunteer at, the metal foundry is always under attack thru meetings and red tape. All we can do is support where one can. Californina I might add is the worst offender toward their state universities. The public sculpture displayed is in poor shape and its restoration.... I may see if I can get one piece I care about a great deal restored this year. unfortunately my car has been a problem and my mechanic refused service for no good reason after taking our money. If any one is in California steer clear or Shattuck's automotive. In any case, what is wrong with people today?!
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2011, 12:13 PM
KatyL KatyL is offline
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

Is this really a bad thing?

These days many teachers of 3-d have no idea how to do it anyway. Mold making is a deep mystery. No one knows anatomy. Etc.

I see it as a great opportunity for do-it-yourself foundries. I also feel that anyone wishing to become expert at these things (sculpture, metal work, carving, etc.) ought to just strike out on their own. Save all that money you'll never be able to pay back. Get a real degree and a real job.

I do not know if any of you are this old, but I know many old time artists, for example, those who went to college in the 1940's made their own tools. They made their own forges. They got together and formed artist groups and hired their own art models. They got together and poured their own bronzes. (What schools taught was usually out of step, and out of date with the art scene of the time anyway).

What I see in art these days among artists is a kind of learned helplessness, and prostration before the "specialists" of academia. All "school" does, really, is gather the techniques you may need to learn to do some artistic act (i.e. "sculpt," paint, etch). This is fine and good, but really, most of that information is readily available in books. You do not need to be taught any of this, but you do need to learn it.

Other than that -- why do you need to sit in a classroom looking at slides from work that was done in the past? What, get critiques from students who also do not know what they are doing? Be taught by a teacher who has no time to do any art, and who maybe was in one decent show but otherwise sells the occasional work at a small co-op gallery downtown?

(I do have plenty of classroom hours in art, and they were helpful, but most of the stuff I learned was mere "technique" that I could have picked up anywhere).

Beside this, what reason is there to have a "sculpture" program. Will sculpture cease to exist if there are no programs?

I'd say No. In fact, you would eliminate a lot of potential competition-- and (the best thing) you'd eliminate those "sculptors" who think that getting a dead rat and bottle of piss is the equivalent of somehow "making" sculpture. You know the types I mean.

Sorry I am so opinionated. I kind of like the idea of less art schools. I'd like to see a lot less insufferable academics, and a lot more "shoulder to the grindstone"-type artists.
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Old 10-11-2011, 03:14 PM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

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Originally Posted by KatyL View Post
Is this really a bad thing?

Sorry I am so opinionated. I kind of like the idea of less art schools. I'd like to see a lot less insufferable academics, and a lot more "shoulder to the grindstone"-type artists.
Yay….another post that points a finger at “the institution” because of a personal dislike for contemporary art. It is one thing to have an opinion and another to have an informed opinion. You appear to have the former.

The image you paint of the “insufferable academic” is both laughable and fictional.
It is a shame that you feel the need to support any substantive criticisms you might have with unfounded slander. I’ve been teaching for many years and am colleagues with a lot of fine (and young) instructors and professors who teach sculpture. I have yet to meet a single one who was not adequately familiar with mold making and figurative sculpture modeling (among MANY other traditional practices). That said, I know tons from the generation you laude who have never lifted a finger to learn the basics of CAD modeling and even more who are unaware of the shift in both teaching and contemporary studio practices to encourage media inclusiveness in art (really, since the 1950s.)

It DOES take more than a degree from the school of hard knocks and diploma from nose-to-the-grind-stone U. Visual culture, the structure of education and sculpture as a field has changed. You may have to accept that if you expect to participate.

Did you read the thread starter? The OP was pleading for a school to KEEP a facility that supports traditional practices and encourages a strong sense for community through a labor-intensive process. Based on your post – I’d of guessed you’d agree that keeping the foundry was a GOOD thing.

Last edited by cheesepaws : 10-11-2011 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:48 PM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

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Originally Posted by cheesepaws View Post
It DOES take more than a degree from the school of hard knocks and diploma from nose-to-the-grind-stone U. Visual culture, the structure of education and sculpture as a field has changed. You may have to accept that if you expect to participate.
Exactly. While I have many complaints from my BFA experience, Fine Art in Academia is one of the rare areas where a student can definitively synthesize the curriculum at hand as it suits her/his aesthetic--
Discarding the noise and absorbing the valuable information. The nose-to-the-grindstone/school-of-hard-kocks experience has yielded the same amount of obnoxious "noise" as I found in Academia. Just different packaging.

Coming from a different discipline before focusing on art (let alone committing to sculpture), Fine Art is one of the lone (remaining) havens for free thought for those going through any University/College system.
The onus remains firmly on the student to put it to good use.
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Old 10-12-2011, 04:49 AM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

Quote:
Yay….another post that points a finger at “the institution” because of a personal dislike for contemporary art. It is one thing to have an opinion and another to have an informed opinion. You appear to have the former.

The image you paint of the “insufferable academic” is both laughable and fictional.
Cheese you are obviously part of the system...it shows badly. If you can't take the knocks well...tough. Katy paints a true picture that I have experienced.

Give you a couple of examples of why sculpture class closings are not a bad thing. Went to two different colleges to learn about ceramics. First one taught how to throw a competent pot (which is what I wanted to know). Teacher at first college though was adrift as to glazes. She fell back on" it was a mystery". Glazes shivered off pots regularly. She maintained that some days glazes worked & some days they did not. Great teaching depth.

Second college, teacher claimed to want to know teach functional pottery. She did not know how to throw a functional pot on a hands-on basis, knew intellectually but not hands-on. As to glazing, glazing was still a mystery. Also as to china painting, another mystery. Also no leads or books to point you to. Another in-depth teacher.

Neither knew the basics sufficiently for a serious student to progress. As to the sculpture teacher in the second college, he was a joke. He knew some technique but not how to apply it, or how to reach his students. His big thing was making paper dress patterns into ephermal sculptures. He did not teach one class personally. By the way he was the head of the art department.

Finally ended up finishing at a 3rd college to put a wrap on my college credits so I could at least say I had a BA & not disassociated college credits (looks like you have no focus when applying for a job). All three Colleges were barely a help. Mostly got to try techniques (with high student frustration levels) that teacher had little grounding in. By the way most of the art classes I took in college were 300 & 400 level courses.

By the third college, just took independent study courses in art. All the teachers in the third college could not/would not share their experience with making art or getting into galleries or helping the artist get started on their art career. Found out that my wife & I had more experience than the teachers we were looking to for guidance. Particulary in running an art business & working with galleries.

So no Cheese, get off your elitest pedestal & do not criticize other people for not lapping up all of the college art teaching short-comings & calling the art teachers great educators. Teachers do not automatically have "informed opinions" (your words). Are you saying that other people (non-educators) that do not share your exalted view are uninformed? Choose your words well.

Am firmly in Katy's corner. You may be holding up your corner of the world. Most teachers I am acquainted with were not when I was going through college. They were falliable people looking to get by & hold onto a job. They did not know how to produce figurative work or advise others on it, were not selling their work in the commercial or public art realm, just basting in their own juices of ignorance. They hewed closely to the adage "if you cannot do it, teach". None had an independent art studio/practice.

Sorry to blow a hole in your conceits of what students get out of college. Your experience may be different because you have tried valiently to be thoughtful, caring & actually teach something. But your attitude comes off as callous & uncaring of anothers experience. Not a good quality of a teacher.

Apologies to Maddie for throughly hijacking this thread. Don't think bullies (Cheesepaws) should get away unchallenged.
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Old 10-12-2011, 10:11 AM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

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Cheese you are obviously part of the system...it shows badly. If you can't take the knocks well...tough. Katy paints a true picture that I have experienced.
Which system? Academia? The one that has been at the core of art education for the last few centuries?

Yes, I am “part of the system” as is any artist who places their work in an art historical context.

I am happy to have a discussion about the shortcoming of the institution - and there are ALWAYS shortcoming – but I do take offense to off-handed and generic slander aimed at any and all artist/teachers or student artists who choose to work/study art at college. Katy has every right to her opinion – but if she is going to diss the “system” she needs to rely on more than her own (admittedly not unrewarded) experiences. Even better she should be prepared to discuss contemporary studio practices and pedagogies from a well-informed vantage. Keep in mind I also expect a critical look at any topic to be an open-minded exchange. I do not see evidence of this in Katy’s original post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonofelephant View Post
Give you a couple of examples ….
Yup, and I can offer up one hundred insanely engaged, challenged and satisfied students from my own teaching history (and thousands graduating each year from combined programs). Hell, I have no doubt that the “bad” teachers of your own background had many students who adored them and took away something. The evidence for the general success of the system is reflect in the market and, in turn, the holding of private and public collections. Overwhelmingly the artists of cultural and generational note are rooted in the institution. Sorry you had a bad experience. I too know that there are occasional “bad” teachers…but there are by far more poor students. Even in deep reflection it can sometimes be hard to tell where the fault lies. I had some unengaged teachers in my past – that never stopped me from taking away a huge amount of knowledge. Also, that they didn't reach me didn't make them "bad". Like the vast majority of teachers - they do their sincere best. Very few go into teaching for the fame and money. My experience and belief from the "inside" is that most teachers are well informed and dedicated to their classrooms and studios. I always default to this benefit of the doubt when meeting other teachers or discussing academia here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonofelephant View Post
So no Cheese, get off your elitest pedestal & do not criticize other people for not lapping up all of the college art teaching short-comings & calling the art teachers great educators. Teachers do not automatically have "informed opinions" (your words). Are you saying that other people (non-educators) that do not share your exalted view are uninformed? Choose your words well.
There is nothing elitist about defending my career. I’ve dedicated a huge part of my life to teaching as an extension of my studio. I too see shortcomings in the system – but the advice to simply dissolve art classrooms in favor of some romantic artist collective strikes me as ill conceived.
Keep in mind too that I’ve been participating on this forum for a number of years now and while I may sing the praises of an academic art education I have never put down other paths people take for to making objects including the craft-based efforts of artisans, the “Sunday sculptors” making Modernist parodies, the outsider artists welding nuts and bolts together or the industrial designer. It’s all good in my book. But consistently I have found that community members here are simply threatened by academia – a fear based on misinformation or bad personal experiences. Keep in mind too that not all paths of expression lead to the same place. By this I mean that one should not expect to participate in a contemporary gallery scene (for example) without researching what traditions that scene reflects. Put simply, don’t bring a knife to a gunfight.

Oh, BTW, I never claimed all teachers have “informed” opinions, rather that Katy’s argument (or statement rather) lacked an informed opinion. Big difference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonofelephant View Post
Am firmly in Katy's corner. You may be holding up your corner of the world. Most teachers I am acquainted with were not when I was going through college. They were falliable people looking to get by & hold onto a job. They did not know how to produce figurative work or advise others on it, were not selling their work in the commercial or public art realm, just basting in their own juices of ignorance. They hewed closely to the adage "if you cannot do it, teach". None had an independent art studio/practice.
Right, so by your own admission the system you experienced is not necessarily the same as the institution today. How then can you offer an informed criticism? Do you know what is required to get a job teaching art in academia these days? To secure tenure? To get annual salary bumps? Do you understand what the institutional norms are for periodic review and assessment of faculty performance? Are you versed in current teaching trends to provide students with enhanced education through multi-media resources - including traditional fundamental of sculpture? Or the value of teaching with a goal of illustration connections across disciplines?

Again, sounds like you had some bad experience – but surely you understand that judging the institution TODAY based on yesterday’s “standards” is not likely to give you a good picture of how it works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonofelephant View Post
Sorry to blow a hole in your conceits of what students get out of college. Your experience may be different because you have tried valiently to be thoughtful, caring & actually teach something. But your attitude comes off as callous & uncaring of anothers experience. Not a good quality of a teacher.
Like I have already stated, I have ALWAYS been even keeled ‘round here and careful not to judge. Of course I will get defensive when my career is slandered. What you call callous, I call critical – the greatest asset for any teacher.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonofelephant View Post
Apologies to Maddie for throughly hijacking this thread. Don't think bullies (Cheesepaws) should get away unchallenged.
I doubt very much that Maddie will see this since her original (and only) post was from three years ago. I did look and it appears that the foundry at her school is THANKFULLY still up and running.

I’d appreciate you steer clear of person insults based on personality – such as “bully.” My ideas and images are all fair game, but you don’t know me and it is generally considered bad forum protocol to insult someone without knowing them.
You’ll note the lack of name calling both in this response and my post to Katy.
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  #11  
Old 10-13-2011, 06:51 AM
KatyL KatyL is offline
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

[quote=cheesepaws;100195]Yay….another post that points a finger at “the institution” because of a personal dislike for contemporary art. It is one thing to have an opinion and another to have an informed opinion. You appear to have the former.

The image you paint of the “insufferable academic” is both laughable and fictional.
It is a shame that you feel the need to support any substantive criticisms you might have with unfounded slander. I’ve been teaching for many years and am colleagues with a lot of fine (and young) instructors and professors who teach sculpture. I have yet to meet a single one who was not adequately familiar with mold making and figurative sculpture modeling (among MANY other traditional practices). That said, I know tons from the generation you laude who have never lifted a finger to learn the basics of CAD modeling and even more who are unaware of the shift in both teaching and contemporary studio practices to encourage media inclusiveness in art (really, since the 1950s.)

It DOES take more than a degree from the school of hard knocks and diploma from nose-to-the-grind-stone U. Visual culture, the structure of education and sculpture as a field has changed. You may have to accept that if you expect to participate.

Did you read the thread starter? The OP was pleading for a school to KEEP a facility that supports traditional practices and encourages a strong sense for community through a labor-intensive process. Based on your post – I’d of guessed you’d agree that keeping the foundry was


Bla bla bla. Keep that freak flag flying, Mr, Irate.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:11 AM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

I have always been a proponent of the academic environment as a very valuable "place" for intellectual development. There are discussions to be experienced there that will improve an artist far greater than the learning of manual processes, art histories and the names of muscles and tendons (and guess what, you'll learn that TOO). Yes, for whatever reason, those who didnt go to art school, or who didnt finish it or went but blame their lack of success on the "institution" that was supposed to hand them a 'career" afetrwards - those folks have a beef with art programs. When one realizes that one's "career" and one's self-inflicted aesthetic rigors are NOT necessarily related to each other - well, THEN the blame stops. Yes, I do worry that academia is more and more perceived as a trade schooling - only for J-O-Bs. But I cant imagine a better setting than art school for the expansion and nurturing of youthful minds (it aint gonna be a commune). The crafty crafts of moldmaking, the memorizing of muscles, the calipers, the pouring of molten metal, ...how to use tools without losing a limb....ALL that stuff is easy and ordinary and few schools are without very accomplished members for teaching those little nuts and bolts. But, the most valuable thing a teacher can impart (or cause), is self criticism, self determination, self confidence, self worth, self questioning, self challenging....all those SELF things (that are not so easily achieved all by oneSELF) that will permit the continuing development of the creative consciousness and the general improving of ones possibilties within their being (and as a bonus, such an improved individual will ever prove to be a very useful citizen amongst the hordes).

Plenty of folks do just fine without all that....but imagine if they had had it.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:13 AM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

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It is a shame that you feel the need to support any substantive criticisms you might have with unfounded slander.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KatyL View Post
Bla bla bla. Keep that freak flag flying, Mr, Irate.
Thanks for continuing to illustrate my point!

Oh well, another missed opportunity for an legitimate discussion.
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Old 10-13-2011, 08:16 AM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

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But, the most valuable thing a teacher can impart (or cause), is self criticism, self determination, self confidence, self worth, self questioning, self challenging....all those SELF things (that are not so easily achieved all by oneSELF) that will permit the continuing development of the creative consciousness and the general improving of ones possibilties within their being (and as a bonus, such an improved individual will ever prove to be a very useful citizen amongst the hordes).

Plenty of folks do just fine without all that....but imagine if they had had it.

Quoted for truth.

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Coming from a different discipline before focusing on art (let alone committing to sculpture), Fine Art is one of the lone (remaining) havens for free thought for those going through any University/College system.
The onus remains firmly on the student to put it to good use.
...and this.
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Old 10-13-2011, 06:49 PM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

Quote:
Fine Art in Academia is one of the rare areas where a student can definitively synthesize the curriculum at hand as it suits her/his aesthetic--
Discarding the noise and absorbing the valuable information. The nose-to-the-grindstone/school-of-hard-kocks experience has yielded the same amount of obnoxious "noise" as I found in Academia. Just different packaging.


The onus remains firmly on the student to put it to good use.
Definitely agree with Obseq. When I went to school Cheese (& it was not with the dinosaurs - BA in 1996) teachers knew or cared very little about the students. Maybe that is one of the reasons I went to 11 different colleges to get the education I needed. Each had something to offer. Each school also had a dynamite library which was throughly ravaged by me by the time I left. Each had shortcomings except for Arrowmont & MICA. They both had great professional teaching staffs & highly recommend them.

My dislike for art teachers is rooted in their current performance as well as past performance. With the school that I graduated from, there have been several instances of my trying to arrange a show & their non-performance which resulted in the death of said show.

The one that was a travesty was to put together an art show of alumni & current teachers with some of the proceeds going to undergraduate artist scholarships. The show was an adjunct to a preexisting event that would bring in clients from 200 miles away. A good way to make some money for the artists, fund some scholarships, & do something good for the college.

But I am sure you can disparage this experience & will.

I hope you get the point that I am not poking you specifically you in the eye for fun. Until you as a person, who happens to be a teacher, want credibility from me, you get it through your work & actions. Not automatically since you are a teacher. Not by saying people have "uninformed opinons" that is a value-laden judgement not backed up by empirical evidence. That is an opinion on your part & til proven otherwise - an uninformed opinion on your part - which is my opinion.

Quote:
How then can you offer an informed criticism? Do you know what is required to get a job teaching art in academia these days? To secure tenure? To get annual salary bumps? Do you understand what the institutional norms are for periodic review and assessment of faculty performance? Are you versed in current teaching trends to provide students with enhanced education through multi-media resources - including traditional fundamental of sculpture? Or the value of teaching with a goal of illustration connections across disciplines?
Frankly all the things you wote about what it takes to make a teacher make me yawn. That is your problem not mine. You need to know the qualifications to make your career tick & abide by them. I don't need to know what you know about academia. I only need to see the results of your actions & comments to tell me what I need to know about you.

Do I need to know what is involved with tenure or get salary bumps? No. That is your universe. My universe is get more work & I get a salary bump. Give good quality work to clients & I will get a form of tenure - money to put away for retirement & a chance to bid another job perchance to win it.

Periodic review of performance - get that with the completion of each job.

Versed in teaching trends - no I would be a terrible teacher & readily admit it. Once again that is your world & you obviously enjoy it. The wonderful part is that there are people that enjoy teaching like you. That is a blessing.

There is always more to argue about. But in the end, we are justifying our own prejudices while not dispensing with foibles & other shortcomings that hold us back as individuals, teachers & artists.
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:11 AM
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

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I hope you get the point that I am not poking you specifically you in the eye for fun. Until you as a person, who happens to be a teacher, want credibility from me, you get it through your work & actions. Not automatically since you are a teacher. Not by saying people have "uninformed opinons" that is a value-laden judgement not backed up by empirical evidence. That is an opinion on your part & til proven otherwise - an uninformed opinion on your part - which is my opinion.
Of course “empirical” evidence would include experiences from ALL spectrums of academia – student, staff, faculty…that is the background that informs MY opinion. I did not start this exchange by stating that academia is the only way or the best option for an education in the arts. My first post on this thread was a direct response to a general attack on my profession – the burden of “proof” as to the LACK of value of college art programs (and college foundries) falls squarely on Katy (or you by extension of defending her position).

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonofelephant View Post
Frankly all the things you wote about what it takes to make a teacher make me yawn. That is your problem not mine. You need to know the qualifications to make your career tick & abide by them. I don't need to know what you know about academia. I only need to see the results of your actions & comments to tell me what I need to know about you.
That’s right, you don’t need to know what I know about academia/education – or what your doctor knows about medicine, or what your lawyer knows about law. We are paid professionals backed up with experience and training (ie. “informed”). I’ll state clearly here that training does not make anyone necessarily good at their job nor should any degree or title immediately validate their opinions. That said, my knowledge of academia – and it IS yawn worthy – also lets me know that claims like, “teachers knew or cared very little about the students” is not likely to be true – regardless of what you personally perceived.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonofelephant View Post
There is always more to argue about. But in the end, we are justifying our own prejudices while not dispensing with foibles & other shortcomings that hold us back as individuals, teachers & artists.
I love a good, open-minded debate but this conversation has never been about MY prejudices. Go to art school or don’t – there are TONS of ways to learn about materials, processes and all things related to art. Being an artist has never been a one-size fits all career. Across many exchanges here on the forum my opinion is always one of inclusiveness.

What really shocked me about Katy’s comments in her original post was the disregard for the students who DO thrive in academia (art majors and non-majors alike). Many art departments are constantly threatened by the potential cutting of teaching lines, reduction of facilities, and trimming of general operating budgets. The “trickle down” of dissolving arts programs is NOT more opportunities for all artists but an increased decline in the cultural value of art….meaning there will be fewer folks buying art, fewer galleries showing art, and fewer artists able to earn a living making art.

With the decline (nearly lack) of national and state funding to assist artists and the severe cutting of art education as part of a primary education, do we – AS ARTISTS – really need to help erode art as worthy of study or the cultural value of the arts by calling for the end to college art programs?!

Now....unrelated, would you be willing to PM me a ball park cost of an outdoor sculpture like you did at Sculpture on the Square in Rockville, MD? (including the custom pedestal). I'm in the early stages of building a public sculpture program at my school and including your work in my report would be helpful to illustrating the costs of sculpture across various scales and materials. The program is not likely to get funding anytime soon, but if I start the process now I am hopeful that I can get something started in the next few years.

Last edited by cheesepaws : 10-14-2011 at 03:46 PM.
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  #17  
Old 10-16-2011, 02:12 PM
askesis askesis is offline
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

Mr. Elofant: 11 schools an' corrosive disdain for academia? Pardner, it may not be the teachers....

I don't like arty schoolers 'cause them peoples whip up scale models o' my front double wide, pre- it with a post- and get adjoolations galore.

Meanwhiles, I a breathin' fumes and fussin' finishes an' closetin' works that am't ready for prime time, despite me's rollin' amongst the pages of the Good Book tongue talkin', lookin' fer signs o' "readiniess."

Them's acadamiacs is the carnegies an' mellons o' the world. Me and mines, we gander thru the vitrines an' sees the unboundin' glories o the purdy white boxes an' jedi masks an if it warn't for us gentectically respectin' 'em with ours magi's adoration we'd be all anger and envy, what with them's puttin so's little effert and winding such a storm o' praise.

But them home-schoolers t'aint the arms to fall into t'iether. Thems mighten even be worser, liken a pin bone gettin' stuck crosswize. Theys ain't got no perkspecktive, all lonely and such, no sir, none to tell 'em theys spent heapin' time on a pile o' awfulness. And the Gibraltars they got carryin' around, feelin' they aint gettin' the respektin' they deserve, seems them nite courses w'da been easier.

I alwys thought there's big trouble with lockin' yursef in the attic to try an' drink out yur magnum opus, 'cause when yer come out everthings changed, ponies ta model ts, crayons ta cathode rays. In such a case,you and yur wark might wind up bein' irreveralant.....
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  #18  
Old 10-16-2011, 08:04 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: HELP SAVE SCULPTURE AT THE ONTARIO COLLEGE OF ART & DESIGN!

Askesis ranting the Faulkner. Irony too. Nice.

Works of art cant be relevant, but their maker CAN be. If they've got the nerve. And relevance is found in thought....original thought. And if one hopes to benefit from the academic opportunity He/she must be hungry for discourse; and hope that one is oft contradicted and contested so that many interpretations can be internalized and tweaked.
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