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  #26  
Old 02-27-2010, 10:57 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Why did Art happen?

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But man, something very urgently tells me that I would sure hate to be just a hazy, floating cloud of perception with no arms and legs. A nowhere man? Ha! So the sculpture MUST occur...to reap the reapable and be nourished in all the best of ways.
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For one reason or another adding magic details to toys works, children grow up and continue the cycle of life.
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Smart kids have always taken control and done something extra......
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Absolutely, 100%, full-tilt, original...the Everclear of Art...needed NO viewers (or tasters) but the maker
Interesting stuff. Yeah, what a waste not to use the bag of flesh as long as you have it. And no, that doesn't mean an ever increasing detail. That nose to the grindstone stuff of logical obsession is not the stuff of art, it makes you a good factory rat. The smartest kids only use rules when it's to their advantage in their larger picture, an easy way to dispense with the necessities. Mastering necessities is not art unless you transcend the obvious with it. Gotta agree in ant-like community fashion with the last statement quoted. Creativity, Art is not concerned with the approval of another. Approval belongs to the world of survival, mortgages and what's for dinner?
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  #27  
Old 02-27-2010, 02:55 PM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

Absolutely, 100%, full-tilt, original...the Everclear of Art...needed NO viewers (or tasters) but the maker.

so are you are saying to just make it for yourself, what you like, how you like it, and for your own reasons.
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  #28  
Old 02-27-2010, 04:49 PM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

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so are you are saying to just make it for yourself, what you like, how you like it, and for your own reasons.
Yup. Love it that way.

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Creativity, Art is not concerned with the approval of another
Not true. Many of the biggest names in art were ego maniacs and created their master pieces for approval from a specific audience. Rembrandt was crushed at least once.
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  #29  
Old 02-27-2010, 06:24 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: Why did Art happen?

Well if some poor sot is an egomaniac, then thats HIS (her) problem. Such a shallow relationship to the creative process will NEVER, ever reveal anything worthwhile.
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  #30  
Old 02-27-2010, 09:07 PM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

Well I saw a documentary a while ago (so there's unresearched out the window) that concluded that the first cave paintings where imagery first became a part of our vocabulary was the result of fixing hallucinations during trances (probably religious) into a permanent form.

They were the first time people made and then looked at pictures.

The hallucinations were people traveling as animal spirits or something.
Kind of an attempt to harness the attributes they most admired in the animals around them, since they weren't paintings of what they were hunting at the time (as determined by examining the bones littering the cave floor).

They reached their conclusions by finding cliff walls of bushmen paintings painted recently and documented by someone in the Victorian era who asked the bushmen what the pictures meant.

They were apparently remarkably similar to ancient paintings and the bushmen hadn't been in contact with modern man to any appreciable degree back then.

Then we got used to using pictures to the point where we forgot we ever didn't use them and meanings and usage changed over time from there.

Seemed to make a lot of sense, considering that you can't go back thousands of years and actually ask anyone.
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  #31  
Old 03-27-2010, 04:49 PM
dilida dilida is offline
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Re: Why did Art happen?

Since this is a sculpture forum, why are ya'll talking about cave paintings? shouldn't you be talking about knapped points? The better made ones are sheer works of beauty. They met a need, they were functional, but there had to be some form of pride? in the creating of them. They sat down and CREATED them. Somewhere along the way, they must have felt a need to create the best looking point they could. Hence the burial, ceremonial specimens. The materials chosen have a beauty beyond compare. certainly the knappability of the material was primary, but appearance had to play a part for SOME of them. That had to be on the ancients' minds as they sat down to knapp a point. Don't dismiss this as just function. some had artists' minds. If this was the first form of creating something other than a sharpened stick, the artist inclined mind lead the way.
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  #32  
Old 03-27-2010, 08:13 PM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

Yes D, very good observation. Aside from the obvious function of these objects they are often seemingly more attractive in texture, polish, stone choice and symmetry than the mere function would require. No doubt that a loosed and pioneering creative impulse was at work on some. I'll buy it.
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  #33  
Old 04-06-2010, 07:37 AM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

The 1st art was most likely drawing.
The 1st drawings were most likely lines in the sand/dirt.
The 1st sand drawings were most likely figures & diagrams of other human groups and animals.

Why did they draw these. To make plans on how to kill them and eat them.

Why did we start Art? To Kill what is around us.

It just grew from there.
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  #34  
Old 04-06-2010, 07:42 AM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

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Originally Posted by suburbanartists View Post
Why did we start Art? To Kill what is around us.

It just grew from there.
That helps me to better understand the dead shark in the tank as "art".
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  #35  
Old 04-06-2010, 07:58 AM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

The creative impulse is an installed tool of human survival...like the fangs of a sabre-toothed tiger. It has always served every one of us for that. But for some humans survival wasnt enough..."homo-aestheticus" arrived by the transcending of the creative impulse, the UN-purposing of the creative impulse, the DEapplication of the creative impulse....the anti-use of intentions that not only did not wish to KILL anything, it also did not wish to KEEP-ALIVE anything. Art was the first seperate, the first truly "owned" act of an individual. Art was the first relevant thing our species did. And so it continues today with more and more wandering/wondering ants taking such asides of pertinence all the time.

And dont look to the books and museums to point at examples against this notion. Most of THAT stuff is not art at all.
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  #36  
Old 04-06-2010, 08:12 AM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

Ok i'm with you, so what are the first examples of art for art sake? I have no idea? I don't think the cave paintings qualify.

My best guess - Art didn't really start in your context till we (the abstract guys) came around.
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  #37  
Old 04-06-2010, 08:29 AM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

Quote:
The 1st art was most likely drawing.
The 1st drawings were most likely lines in the sand/dirt.
The 1st sand drawings were most likely figures & diagrams of other human groups and animals.

Why did they draw these. To make plans on how to kill them and eat them.
I agree with everything but the conclusion. I think the drawings were for fun. Thus the subject matter was humor or wishful thinking. However in today's terminology some might use the term porn for some of it. I mean, it wasn't all hunt and gather. What did they do in their free time?
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  #38  
Old 04-06-2010, 08:30 AM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

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Originally Posted by suburbanartists View Post
The 1st art was most likely drawing.
The 1st drawings were most likely lines in the sand/dirt.
The 1st sand drawings were most likely figures & diagrams of other human groups and animals.

Why did they draw these. To make plans on how to kill them and eat them.

Why did we start Art? To Kill what is around us.

It just grew from there.

I like it!
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  #39  
Old 04-06-2010, 08:36 AM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

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Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
What did they do in their free time?
Everything else! Everything you see around you today is the direct result of what they did in their free time. So, art probably came naturally to them like sport, science, math, love etc.. When domestication started coming around 5 thousand or so years ago then things really began to take off because they had a lot more free time.
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  #40  
Old 04-06-2010, 09:30 AM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

Agree with Dilda that there's altogether too much talk about drawing in a sculpture forum. Let me add to the knapping--the tool making--the great influence that objects and shapes apparently had at the beginning. The sacred rock or tree or mountain; the fetishes; the dell, clouds, waterfalls, streams. Something about these 3d forms got to people, and when they grabbed what they could and set it aside,or made it in replica, that was an important part of the origin of art. Henry Moore always felt that his work was somehow influenced by natural shapes that invoked something old and deep in human consciousness.
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  #41  
Old 04-06-2010, 10:36 AM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

food, sex, love and hate, it's the same reason we make art today.
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  #42  
Old 04-06-2010, 11:58 AM
tobias tobias is offline
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Re: Why did Art happen?

I think that first very first art thing was a tool of some sort gone wrong. It just looked nice and was kept instead of discarded. then it grew from there ... oh that looks nice and I did this so what about this or this ? Then you get the others watching noticing that pretty thing then they try and its a following. Not sure but thats my bit..
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  #43  
Old 04-06-2010, 02:24 PM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

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Originally Posted by dilida View Post
shouldn't you be talking about knapped points? Somewhere along the way, they must have felt a need to create the best looking point they could. .
how did he know it was the best?...he showed it to his tribe mates and they said .."man,..that's the best looking point ever"
The tribe chicks liked it and all wanted to hang around, consequently propagating a new line of little artists..
and it just grew from there.

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Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
Absolutely, 100%, full-tilt, original...the Everclear of Art...needed NO viewers (or tasters) but the maker.
however, the tribesman who hid his knapped points under the bearskin and didn't share (and just told the tribe he made really good ones)
well...his lineage evolved into economists and accountants.
and it just grew from there
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  #44  
Old 04-06-2010, 07:03 PM
robertpulley robertpulley is offline
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Re: Why did Art happen?

Have you ever gone by someone's house (not an artist's house, just some regular schmoe) and seen a rock sitting atop a rock. To me that is first art.
And while I think drawing is an essential tool of the artist and don't in the least find it out of place here, I can't imagine drawing as the first art. Draw on what? Most early people did a lot of traveling around chasing animals and seasons. The Inuit didn't draw, but they did pick up bones, rocks and driftwood and ask what it was for. Sometimes for a tool; sometimes to become an image. They didn't stash the art, just let it go. The Native Americans didn't draw except for a few pictographs or decorations on shields. They did make beautiful tools, pots, and clothing. Tribal Africans: fetishes, pots, masks. I think real space came before illusory space.

As to making for oneself being somehow pure and prime, I know for myself it is more complex than that. I want to create to satisfy my curiosity and to make objects that resonate with my soul, but I'm into abstraction, chance, improvisation and those aesthetics come out of the conversation that is international art. I am proud to be a part of that ongoing conversation even though my part in it very very minimal. So while I too think the truest art is not made for the market, it doesn't have to be shouting in the dark and if it is more complex than a rock on a rock the maker has been paying attention to others.
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  #45  
Old 04-07-2010, 06:01 AM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

Come to think of it, it was probably done by a child...by many, many children, by most children,, by ALL children. And it wasnt a scratching of a boring bison either. it was MARKS. Just marks made by a curious, confident and unbridled-by-duty finger. Some smooshed proddings into the mud, unseesn by anyone else, some parting of the muck that invited a conquering control over the physical world. Eventually those little hands and fingers were burdened and the Art went away - forgotten. But eventually it did NOT get forgotten and an individual(s) of superior strength and intellect MADE his opportunity...and did it again; with adult hands. And once you could do this, the rest was easy. Willendorfs, sphinxes, Laocoons, Davids, Nudes descending staircases, Guernicas....ALL easy squeezy.

Last edited by evaldart : 04-07-2010 at 06:22 AM.
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  #46  
Old 04-07-2010, 09:32 AM
rika rika is offline
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Re: Why did Art happen?

Yes, E, probably. How it happened? Watch a 2 or 3 year old...that's how it happened...and it's happening all over again with every child born. They only had their fingers and sticks to use in the mud or sand back then, now they use finger paint and chalk. Same for sculpture. Kids building mud pies by dripping on the beach. Some make elaborate mud castles, some are happy with pies.
I think they discovered clay first and realized it can be turned into figurines; toys, goddesses, whatever. And when they left them in the sun, they got baked, they hardened. Which meant they could be turned into useful objects, vessels, pots, etc. And then they discovered they could be decorated by patterns scratched on them. Decoration made them unique. Once they discovered the uniqeness, it was only a matter of time that some of them were better at decorating than others. Artisans were born. And that was the last step before the big awakening: art itself.
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  #47  
Old 04-07-2010, 11:45 AM
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rderr.com rderr.com is offline
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Re: Why did Art happen?

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Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
The creative impulse is an installed tool of human survival...like the fangs of a sabre-toothed tiger. It has always served every one of us for that. But for some humans survival wasnt enough..."homo-aestheticus" arrived by the transcending of the creative impulse, the UN-purposing of the creative impulse, the DEapplication of the creative impulse....the anti-use of intentions that not only did not wish to KILL anything, it also did not wish to KEEP-ALIVE anything. Art was the first seperate, the first truly "owned" act of an individual. Art was the first relevant thing our species did. And so it continues today with more and more wandering/wondering ants taking such asides of pertinence all the time.

And dont look to the books and museums to point at examples against this notion. Most of THAT stuff is not art at all.

The genes for creativity, altruism, and the impulses for collective culture arose most likely not in "homo-aestheticus" but in homo-homo.

R. 1Derr
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  #48  
Old 04-09-2010, 09:57 AM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

I think the question "why did art happen" has not been addressed directly. And, this thing called "art" has not been delimited. So here is the short answer: Art happened because we became human. When we evolved to establish a degree of separation from apes--art started to develop. The more educated, trained, practiced, evolved we became, so followed the complexity and variety of the human activity called art. We recognize what art is because we are members of the human species. It is a kind of communication. Those who are less "educated, trained, practiced, evolved, or more repressed in their being" won 't respond to as much art as others. Art has no limits because it is in the nature of humans to always defy imposed limits. Humans are always striving to outsmart themselves and others.

Last edited by jOe~ : 04-09-2010 at 10:09 AM.
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  #49  
Old 04-09-2010, 01:54 PM
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The Forge The Forge is offline
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Re: Why did Art happen?

A caveman was trying to impress a cavewoman with his drawings.
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  #50  
Old 04-09-2010, 02:23 PM
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Re: Why did Art happen?

While I will agree that Art is exactly the thing that has defined our species (homo-aestheticus) I wont agree that it has or ever had anything to do with communication. Our constant and desperate will to survive is perhaps no stronger than any other organism. A entity embroiled in survival will utilize any means necessary to keep surviving. Theres nothing specifically HUMAN about THAT.

So, when we USE Art as a tool for survival - as if it were a knapped stone, a thatched roof, a figurative tribute to Apollo or an atom bomb - we are diminishing it. Communication is perhaps our greatest tool; as we are a species dependent upon our collective strengths. Tools cannot be art...sorry (yet tools can "become" art once relieved of their utilitarian duties - another arguement). It is exactly all of the things that are elicited out of the art that were NOT intended to communicate that give it real worth. An individual looking at Art musnt be looking for anything USEFUL (because that stuff is everywhere); Art has everything to do with interpretation and internalization - the gains are not made by any conversation or dialogue with the maker - the gains are made by the power of ones imagination to "feel" what the maker felt - an empathizing of some separate tussle with reality that is both NOT demonstrative and NOT accessible. Thats all.

Last edited by evaldart : 04-09-2010 at 03:53 PM.
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