Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net  

Go Back  Sculpture Community - Sculpture.net > Community Announcements > Polls
User Name
Password
Home Sculpture Community Photo Gallery ISC Sculpture.org Register FAQ Members List Search New posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 12-07-2009, 09:01 PM
craigktx's Avatar
craigktx craigktx is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Port Aransas tx
Posts: 1,153
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

[quote=Nelson;84863]Craig,
Please help me understand if that`s an analogy or an ironic view. Ants and other social insects display like I said before, some of the most evolved forms of organization. They communicate more effectively than some of us, and we wish humans could live in such an ordered fashion. Much to learn from the seemingly "insignificant" huh.

There is a problem with this theory, if one was to act more ant like then there
would be a single be it all powerful giant ant in charge with the rest feeding the monster without any care or desire to strive and live for themselves.

Sounds like the life's of those locked away in their gated communities where
the Giant Ant strives to lay down a thick aroma so these trapped minded
Ants can easily be kept towing the line.

Science is fine as long as it's not the new theories that are based in Politics
more than fact. The same thing goes for all the new fad diets and bizarre things people will do to grasp at the golden ring of immortality.
Sorry, but why would one want to walk on roads paved in gold, I would prefer
candy and beer flowing from the hydrants.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 12-07-2009, 09:34 PM
Nelson Nelson is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: venezuela
Posts: 836
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

[quote=craigktx;84868]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson View Post
Craig,
Please help me understand if that`s an analogy or an ironic view. Ants and other social insects display like I said before, some of the most evolved forms of organization. They communicate more effectively than some of us, and we wish humans could live in such an ordered fashion. Much to learn from the seemingly "insignificant" huh.

There is a problem with this theory, if one was to act more ant like then there
would be a single be it all powerful giant ant in charge with the rest feeding the monster without any care or desire to strive and live for themselves.

Sounds like the life's of those locked away in their gated communities where
the Giant Ant strives to lay down a thick aroma so these trapped minded
Ants can easily be kept towing the line.

Science is fine as long as it's not the new theories that are based in Politics
more than fact. The same thing goes for all the new fad diets and bizarre things people will do to grasp at the golden ring of immortality.
Sorry, but why would one want to walk on roads paved in gold, I would prefer
candy and beer flowing from the hydrants.
Agree here with you, just may I say I referred to some ants qualities as ideal, but please no, nothing to do with politics. Any similarities are pure coincidence, and I don`t exactly subscribe to that or any other sort of alienation. In any case I`d advocate for all ants to be as big, and no aromas unless coming from nice queens
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 12-07-2009, 09:42 PM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,279
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Quote:
Sadly though, I believe the intention of the poster was to awaken interesting but opposed views about the ORDER/CHAOS topic. There`s plenty info on the subject that goes well deep into thermodynamics and even philosophy, believes, creeds, on and on, but the intention again worthwhile exploring, without the wise needing to step on the more ignorant. Can`t a post like this one or any other besides fun be also didactic without offensive actitudes? That would sure enlighten the level of the dialogue. Or it`s not possible as the language necessarily has to be highly literate so only three or four people end up flashing against each other to see who got more. Where is all the wisdom? At times I wonder ...
No, the intent was to have a conversation within proscribed boundaries defined by pre-existing biases that don't allow wonder or creative thinking or unapproved ideas. The danger is then compounded when similar folk begin standing shoulder to shoulder to flaunt their unyielding opacity.There is no exchange of ideas, only accusations that we're not playing by the "rules". How absurd on a "creative" forum.

.. no aromas unless coming from nice queens...
__________________
Taking my own advice

Last edited by grommet : 12-07-2009 at 09:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 12-07-2009, 10:40 PM
Nelson Nelson is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: venezuela
Posts: 836
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
No, the intent was to have a conversation within proscribed boundaries defined by pre-existing biases that don't allow wonder or creative thinking or unapproved ideas. The danger is then compounded when similar folk begin standing shoulder to shoulder to flaunt their unyielding opacity.There is no exchange of ideas, only accusations that we're not playing by the "rules". How absurd on a "creative" forum.

.. no aromas unless coming from nice queens...
This a forum to speak freely an every opinion deserves some respect. Mine to you. Oh again, no Grommet, not that kind of queens much less their aromas. When I mentioned queens within the ants contest, I meant the big female ant whose aroma (pheromones) drive males crazy so to speak even from large distances. That being the case, many, many queens of this sort would have been the ideal situation within "ants". So far, unless some explaining had been done as I have, by know someone may have thought I`m for a homosexual comunism of some sort. Holly shit. My respect to the gay community, not to the comune system though. I`d better stop talking about ants, this is really getting chaotic. What about putting some order here Springfield?
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 12-08-2009, 08:15 AM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,279
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

holly shit would maybe smell good. and i was just sugggesting an alternate queen, nothing else. run with it.
It's okay to try out ideas....
__________________
Taking my own advice
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 12-08-2009, 08:31 AM
Nelson Nelson is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: venezuela
Posts: 836
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
holly shit would maybe smell good. and i was just sugggesting an alternate queen, nothing else. run with it.
It's okay to try out ideas....
Yeah, again I respect your taste Grommet.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 12-08-2009, 12:29 PM
SPRINGFIELD SPRINGFIELD is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BURBANK CALIFORNIA
Posts: 731
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

My intention was first to find some people with the courage and comitment to vote. I found some and I appreciate it very much.
I believe I conducted an honest poll and was perfectally willing to let the chips fall where they may.
It is sad that members chose to be obstructioist instead of participating.
I suspect that to vote required real thinking which is why some people did'nt vote. I understand that.. Why think about something, where is the pay off?

What I don't understand is why those who had no intention of participating [IE VOTEING}chose to only engauge in creating missunderstanding and word smithing. Perhaps to prove how smart they are or to hide how they can't handle the subject.
Anyway this could have been very intersting for a lot of people besides just me.

There was a lot more to this poll than what people have seen so far.

I have left hints in some of my posts and perhaps some of you have already figured it out.
Look at the sculpture you do and how you answered this poll. This could have been a lot more fun and informative.

The poll is efectivily closed now because further results have been contaminated. {by me] Patience not being one of my virtues.

Last edited by SPRINGFIELD : 12-08-2009 at 12:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 12-08-2009, 01:39 PM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,279
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

see, now that's where we differ, because i can be almost infnitely patient.

And others have rather painstakingly tried to explain significant information that is critical to the veracity of this "poll".

limited thinking yields results in name only. It is at least movement and perhaps that's all you wanted. Did we at least get your blood pumping to do your work?
__________________
Taking my own advice
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 12-08-2009, 01:47 PM
SPRINGFIELD SPRINGFIELD is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BURBANK CALIFORNIA
Posts: 731
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
see, now that's where we differ, because i can be almost infnitely patient.

And others have rather painstakingly tried to explain significant information that is critical to the veracity of this "poll".

limited thinking yields results in name only. It is at least movement and perhaps that's all you wanted. Did we at least get your blood pumping to do your work?
Did you ever notice that people stop talking with you. Is it because you made such a good point?

If the poll did'nt meet your so called veracity don't vote. I'm suspicious about the great concern that you say you have for my poll.

I'm off to better things and I suspect so is everyone else.

Last edited by SPRINGFIELD : 12-08-2009 at 01:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 12-08-2009, 01:52 PM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,279
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

the smartest ones never start, so it's just me and all the other half-assed thinkers muddling by as best we can, relying on each other's will to live to keep at it, keep engaging and growing.
__________________
Taking my own advice
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 12-08-2009, 02:13 PM
evaldart's Avatar
evaldart evaldart is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: easthampton, massachusetts
Posts: 5,637
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

I got yor gistings from the outset S, big damned surprise: "figuration=order and abstraction=chaos. Order is meaningful and chaos is not". You probably think your "poll" proved this. You have continually missed most of the points being made. Your hypotheses was simply wrong!

In fact the best abstraction addresses the DEEPEST seeking of order possible. and the best figuration lashes-out in a representation of the MOST spontaneous, unpredictable and asymmetrical chaos that a depicted human body can deliver.

The vice-versa is more readily accepted though.

So my dismissal of the pertinence of this argument stands 100% (unless accompanied by beer and a few planted asses at the end of a hard day of WORK).

Last edited by evaldart : 12-08-2009 at 07:12 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 12-08-2009, 04:00 PM
Nelson Nelson is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: venezuela
Posts: 836
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by SPRINGFIELD View Post
Did you ever notice that people stop talking with you. Is it because you made such a good point?

If the poll did'nt meet your so called veracity don't vote. I'm suspicious about the great concern that you say you have for my poll.

I'm off to better things and I suspect so is everyone else.

SPRINGFIELD,
Your post apart from being interesting, well intended and with purpose, at the end only seemed to have proven how much chaos man can generate out of a somewhat balanced state.. For some it`s just irrelevant and nonesense, they have the monopoly of the truth. Sometimes so much sophistication and height blinds, and existance at their feet passes by, as mutual ignorance. My explanation for this? it`s karma, and we all get a slice of it, bla,bla, bla....mere scrable! Anything positive, personally speaking, I`ve learned a bit about the subject. If someone makes some down-toned comment, it`s just logical and probable to get a response on that vein, just to balance things a bit. Not to say I don`t make that sort of mistake myself too. Hey here`s another positive note: this order/chaos topic only a couple days ago, inspired me to pick up a pile of identical steel plate cut outs, and engage myself into a magnificent creative process, oh shit, did I sound stupidly boastful Seriously it`s almost finished and I`ll post it to get name suggestions and a couple bombs I guess. I`ll title it CHAOTIC ORDER?
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 12-08-2009, 04:51 PM
craigktx's Avatar
craigktx craigktx is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Port Aransas tx
Posts: 1,153
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Where's the Hippie boomers it seems they raise there ugly heads when an answer to a question doesn't answer the question.
I see a new ban on polls just around the corner so no one needs to feel bad
about the ramblings of unseen posters.

No need for abstract or art E, it might cause some unknown person to think and we can't tolerate such things.

I did my part today by saying something insensitive.
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 12-09-2009, 01:42 PM
SPRINGFIELD SPRINGFIELD is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BURBANK CALIFORNIA
Posts: 731
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
I got yor gistings from the outset S, big damned surprise: "figuration=order and abstraction=chaos. Order is meaningful and chaos is not". You probably think your "poll" proved this. You have continually missed most of the points being made. Your hypotheses was simply wrong!

In fact the best abstraction addresses the DEEPEST seeking of order possible. and the best figuration lashes-out in a representation of the MOST spontaneous, unpredictable and asymmetrical chaos that a depicted human body can deliver.

The vice-versa is more readily accepted though.

So my dismissal of the pertinence of this argument stands 100% (unless accompanied by beer and a few planted asses at the end of a hard day of WORK).
You say you got my gistings but you didn't mention it untile now [after I spilled the beans] Perhaps as jOe you were suspicious, I tried to clear that up.
See my post in the begining of this poll #3 .
Some people are so contrary and argumentative that if I told them everything in the begining many of them would vote some way just to screw things up.
Can you imagine if I ran the poll like this- Put down the type of sculpture you do abstract/realistic and than put down if you think the universe is based on CHAOS or ORDER. Especially after the disagreements on the subject of abstract / realism.

This realy started when I saw jOe and GlennnT arguing on another thread and thought some understanding might calm things down a bit.

This poll would have been wrong if I planned on some big pronouncement at the end but I wanted to let everyone come to their own conclusions.

So the purpose was not to argue for any point of view,but I felt I had to set some boundries so that the voting had some understranding to it. It seemed that it was becoming a poll about the interpretation of semantics.

As for my hypotheses Craigtx's vote has opened up my mind a little, and because of that I have definetly proved nothing in an absolut sence. Perhaps if more people would have voted instead of obstructing ,this poll would have been even more enlightening for me or sombody.
Buy the way with all that you have said you still had the courage to enter a vote. I'm realy impressed. Thank you.

Last edited by SPRINGFIELD : 12-09-2009 at 01:53 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 12-09-2009, 03:02 PM
SPRINGFIELD SPRINGFIELD is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BURBANK CALIFORNIA
Posts: 731
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
Because, as always, imperfect questions are pushed along in the interest of claiming progress. And unfortunately, there's too many people who will take the results as truth as opposed to the spittle in the wind that it is, because they need something, anything, to grasp and hold onto, even if it's all lies and conjecture. And then you have a hell of a time getting the thing out of their hands after they've made it the holy grail and have a phalanx of followers.
So much easier to believe in nothing, stand for nothing, oppose everything you don't understand because your too lazy to understand it.

I've disagreed with lots of people on this forum. Still I see real honest fact based arguments and the courage of their convictions.

The motives behind you arguments totally escape me. You make bold arguments based on your purposfull negitive interpretations, wordsmiting, etc. and when you get caught you say something that you think is cute.

If I say any more I know I'll feel guilty later.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 12-09-2009, 03:38 PM
SPRINGFIELD SPRINGFIELD is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BURBANK CALIFORNIA
Posts: 731
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
go ahead baby, shoot your wad.
I'm just trying to keep the lint balls from collecting, as stated above.

Why would I waste any more time?
How is that for a missquote? How does it feel to be misstrepresented?

Again with the educatible thing. I don't know of anyone who has the time. You seem to think that knowledge has to be pounded into you head. I told you before that some things have to be self taught. You might start out with being more honest instead of clever. It's so much simpler.

I don't expect you to waste any more time-this is youe exit strategy.

Last edited by SPRINGFIELD : 12-09-2009 at 03:49 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 12-09-2009, 06:34 PM
SPRINGFIELD SPRINGFIELD is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BURBANK CALIFORNIA
Posts: 731
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
I am the patient sort. I didn't misquote you, I quoted you exactly, and put my words in blue.
Why do I wield a bat? because subtle gets you walked on and underpaid and criticized for not using "normal" words. Been there, done that. But you weren't there, so I'll patiently assist if you don't get what I'm saying. I "get" that people have dyslexia and myriad other issues. I don't pick on your spelling, don't pick on my vocabulary, which isn't stellar, by the way, just reg'lar.
What do you expect to get from this conversation?

What do you mean subtle gets you walked on and underpaid?

You sure have a habit of injecting usless points instead of sticking to the real issue.
I guess your infering that I might have dyslexia or some other disabeling issues? If not why did you bring it up?

I find it interesting that you didn't argue about my sugestion that you should be more honest.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 12-09-2009, 07:50 PM
SPRINGFIELD SPRINGFIELD is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: BURBANK CALIFORNIA
Posts: 731
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by grommet View Post
Because I LISTEN, I just gave you some HONEST tibits from my life. I don't know if you have issues or not, but sometimes your spelling sucks, but it's really not that big a deal, is it?

And yes, as a matter of fact, i have a problem following a train of thought unless its right in front of me.
I have a big vocabulary I just don't spell very good.

I asked to make more honest arguments. Little tidbits from your life don't seem adaquit.
I must say that I'm getting pritty tired of this conversaation but I applaud you for continuing it.

Just got dinner handed to me and if I don't get busy and eat it I'm in big trouble.

Why did you find it necessary to interupt my poll instead of just voting?

Please don't answer that.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 12-10-2009, 02:05 PM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,279
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

just kidding
__________________
Taking my own advice
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 02-24-2010, 10:01 AM
denise lassaw denise lassaw is offline
Level 3 user
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: new york
Posts: 28
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Good morning sculptors/philosophers

Shouldn't Order and Chaos be defined?
IF by Order you mean something regular like the works of a clock with endless exact repetitions- I would prefer and believe we have Chaos. But according to Chaos theory the word Chaos does not refer to something out of control or random- rather it means patterns of change that are so large in time/space that what we may see/understand is only a fraction of the whole. There is a very instructive film called MIND WALK that touches on this subject. Since I am 5000 miles away from my books I can't include any delicious quote, but I suggest a little research. If I am spelling this correctly? Systems Theory and Mandelbrot's chaos theory. Then there is a book by Allan Wallace called Choosing Reality which talks about science/philosophy both Western and Eastern and how we understand our participation in the universe.

If the universe/multiverse were like a clock then all organic life would be the chaos because our actions and the results of our actions are always changing. Chaos theory incorporates the effects of the slightest changes in the whole and finds a way to predict the outcome, as a general pattern.
I wish I had my books here !
I believe that the universe is alive and that we are just one aspect of that sentient living system.

mo'later
Denise
Reply With Quote
  #121  
Old 02-24-2010, 10:11 AM
grommet grommet is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,279
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Anybody named "Almondbread" can't be bad....
__________________
Taking my own advice
Reply With Quote
  #122  
Old 02-24-2010, 01:55 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
Level 10 user
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Eugene Oregon
Posts: 502
Re: ORDER OR CHAOS

Quote:
Originally Posted by denise lassaw View Post

I believe that the universe is alive and that we are just one aspect of that sentient living system.

Denise
Denise,
This is a beautiful thought and I can't imagine it any other way. I agree with Einstein that time is an illusion. Without time thoughts of order and chaos go away...the multiverse...whatever that is....just is.
We all have our song to sing, we are part of the whole..as a artist I feel my voice is important...but more important is what I do with my little bit to play.
G
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Sculpture Community, Sculpture.net
International Sculpture Center, Sculpture.org
vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Russ RuBert