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  #1  
Old 12-30-2008, 03:33 PM
outsider outsider is offline
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Have you sold out?

Selling out.
Sold out.
What is it?
What does it mean?
Have you sold out?
Have you always been a sell out?

Personally, I think realism is selling out. Too easy. Making animals is selling out, also too easy. Making a few pieces of furniture to pay bills, well ya gotta do what ya gotta do. But how many pieces of furniture before you have sold out?

Just what is being sold out? I consider being sold out when you have strayed too far from being a fine artist. I consider sold out when you make crap just for the bucks. Sold out is anything that is not the path that furthers fine art. Sold out is staying with the same style or series instead of growing. Sold out is wavering from absolute dedication to fine art and I mean fine art not the crafts. Fine art is painting and sculpture, period! How much have you sacrificed to keep from being a sell out?

If you don't know what a sell out is, you are one!
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  #2  
Old 12-30-2008, 03:55 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by outsider View Post
Personally, I think realism is selling out. Too easy.

Sold out is anything that is not the path that furthers fine art.
Do you have examples of realism that you have done which indicates that your "too easy" dismisal of realism has a shred of credibility? By doing it, I mean also to imply "doing it well", for many are called but few are chosen.

As for " the path that furthers fine art", that may be reliant on how you define "furthers". For example, from my highly biased perspective, I consider much of 20th century art to have been a distraction away from the path rather than a furthering of it.

In fact, using your criteria, I would consider many things other than realism to be "selling out", because the easy path is to follow the trends which for quite some time have been anything but realism. The biggest example would be those who create works primarily meant to garner attention by appearing shocking, outrageous, or attacking moral values. Thus, the politics of the piece and the ensuing manufacturered media feast rather than the artistry of the work is the focus.
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  #3  
Old 12-30-2008, 04:51 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

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Originally Posted by outsider View Post
Personally, I think realism is selling out. Too easy.
Well that sounds nice..but I suspect you will never know the thrill of sculpting a figure and have it come to life...It's head turns and it looks at you.....that sensation goes beyond realism and into something subconscious. I have experienced this phenomena only few times and it's precious to me. If that is what you call selling out then count me in. Michelangelo did much of his work at night...It's said the "Night" figure he carved would come to life and walk around. So some of us "realists" are not realistic at all but rather something else. The world of the heart, mind and spirit influences everything in human evolution, in art especially. We really only begin to understand the sense- perceptible world when we understand how the spiritual is active in the reality of the senses. There is some profound truth here weather you realize it or not...some artists get at this in their own way independent of fads or a particular style but I assure you it's not easy.....


G
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  #4  
Old 12-30-2008, 05:09 PM
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cheesepaws cheesepaws is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

It seems to me that artists have a hard enough time without trying to delineate more arenas of failure. To “sell out” implies that one at least had a go at making art for some other reason (passion, intellectual gratification, money and chicks, etc.). Simply trying to make art part of one’s life ALWAYS equals success – sell outs and other judgmental slurs are like Big Foot – just a myth. I know I've never met one.
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  #5  
Old 12-30-2008, 05:30 PM
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Re: Have you sold out?

Personally, I try to live by the words of the great muse, Swamp Dogg-

Who said-

"I'm not selling out- I'm buying in."
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  #6  
Old 12-30-2008, 06:02 PM
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Re: Have you sold out?

i sell out when all i made is gone,they find a happy home.
i then have the money, girls, and beer.
refueled,then i make more and throw in a finer piece just for fun.
i like to sell out as often as possible.

Have we decided what fine art is yet?
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  #7  
Old 12-30-2008, 06:12 PM
fshnrod fshnrod is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

Yeah, I've sold out most- of my editions! I will be blunt. Your psycho-bable makes me laugh. I get up everyday and do exactly what I want. I have no trust, no inheritance, just the drive, desire, and passion to create. To call that selling out, then by god, I'm guilty. I sell a little bit of my soul every time a collector honors me with a purchase. I'm honored the collector is even interested in my soul. This "selling out" cliche is as old as art itself, and those whom are inept and too lazy at there craft are usually the first to spew this nonsense over a five dollar cup of trust fund coffee. I speak my own language with my sculpture and paintings, and if you think that by me(or anybody else) making a living at what I do is selling out, then so be it. Your narrow mind is clouded with your fancy intellect. Try blowing your nose to see if it clears up.
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  #8  
Old 12-31-2008, 09:33 AM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

I've "known" O long enough now to understand what he's getting at with this. Of course most individuals will respond with a knee-jerk defensive reaction to this topic (and its wording) usually accompanied by all the reasons why there has NOT been any "selling out" goin on. But what O is actually putting out for discussion (in his usual inflammatory fashion) is : ' how do we see our own product measuring up to our own ideals?' Are we "honest" with ourselves about the nature of our undertakings? Have we truly continued expanding and re-evaluating our relationship with aesthetics? Or, have we settled into a safer place and only relied upon already-achieved skills, methods and relationships (technical, physical, intellectual or "business"?) Are we searching or are we "found"? Are we fulfilled? Are we prosperous? Can we be both?? ARE we indeed doing something thats "easy" just because we've finally "figured it out" after years and years of struggle? Are we fed well-enough? Are we tired from Art or is our Art tired? Is our studio large enough? Do we need more tools? more time?...more strength? and on and on....

These are questions that should certainly threaten to distract us regularly. "selling out" needs not come into the picture; Wrong connotations for us. Save the "selling out" for Metallica or your favorite ballad-stooping punk rock band.

There are plenty of "clock-punching" artists out there who have a very methodical and regular approach to their work. I doubt that they are shaking their own world for themselves, maybe they dont want to shake it. Maybe they just want to inhabit the only peaceful place they know...and do it at their liesure. Fine. Others will never feel right unless they feel "wrong"; unless there is great uncertainty, unless they are banging their bloody shins on obstacles all the time and cant believe their eyes when they see just what the hell they've made.

"Spirits" and "souls" bent on creativity are fickle folk. And they wont usually line up for plain ol' humanity...and if they do then they haven't yet come far enough along.

Last edited by evaldart : 12-31-2008 at 04:42 PM.
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  #9  
Old 12-31-2008, 11:05 AM
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Re: Have you sold out?

Good Matt, look a little past the words and the spirit is there.. Nope, I'm not a sell-out.
"I consider being sold out when you have strayed too far from being a fine artist."

Well there are a lot of things that I consider selling out, some worse than others and some so minor they may seem irrelevent, but they all bring me pause nonetheless. Style is not one of them, if you like realism great, if you like stylization great, if you like ears where your eyebrows should be great, if you like them where nature put them great and so on.. First and foremost on my list is do you love what you are doing? If you don't love what you are doing (and I don't mean throwing a tool because of frustration or getting angry because something isn't going your way) then you are selling out. There is a difference with this and lesser offences; compromise and mitigation. To be strictly fanatical about some level of compromise in detail hinders the ability to move forward. Nothing can be perfect or "finished" in the strict sense and besides, I think it was Picasso who said a "finished painting is a dead one".. The real selling out happens when you think you have nothing left to learn or grow from and the act of creating becomes mundane and mechanical and thus, there is nothing left to love about it.
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  #10  
Old 12-31-2008, 09:38 PM
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Tired Iron Tired Iron is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

The real selling out happens when you think you have nothing left to learn or grow from and the act of creating becomes mundane and mechanical and thus, there is nothing left to love about it. Stevenw
Amen.........
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  #11  
Old 01-01-2009, 07:49 AM
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cheesepaws cheesepaws is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
Well there are a lot of things that I consider selling out, some worse than others and some so minor they may seem irrelevent, but they all bring me pause nonetheless. Style is not one of them, if you like realism great, if you like stylization great, if you like ears where your eyebrows should be great, if you like them where nature put them great and so on.. First and foremost on my list is do you love what you are doing? If you don't love what you are doing (and I don't mean throwing a tool because of frustration or getting angry because something isn't going your way) then you are selling out. There is a difference with this and lesser offences; compromise and mitigation. To be strictly fanatical about some level of compromise in detail hinders the ability to move forward. Nothing can be perfect or "finished" in the strict sense and besides, I think it was Picasso who said a "finished painting is a dead one".. The real selling out happens when you think you have nothing left to learn or grow from and the act of creating becomes mundane and mechanical and thus, there is nothing left to love about it.
Bravo!
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  #12  
Old 01-01-2009, 11:03 AM
outsider outsider is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

So what I'm hearing is...If you like being a sell out then it's ok.

Last edited by outsider : 01-01-2009 at 11:18 AM.
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  #13  
Old 01-01-2009, 11:23 AM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by outsider View Post
So what I'm hearing is...If you like being a sell out then it's ok.
You might want to check your hearing.
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  #14  
Old 01-01-2009, 11:29 AM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

Yeah, O...pay attention. Nothing of the kind has been uttered.
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  #15  
Old 01-01-2009, 11:40 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

O- do you accept others' assessment of you or do you realize that they don't really know or "get" you? Same thing from the other side.
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  #16  
Old 01-01-2009, 11:56 AM
outsider outsider is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

Hearing is fine. Read all the comments not just the ones you yourself have written and it becomes appparent an overall support of selling out. Suggesting a rotten core of the sold out, haven't seen it yet. Just what does selling out do to the soul? Is it selling out if you have no soul?

As Freud said, we talk about ourselves. Selling out is on my mind. I started working on the last segment of my spaceship which is a hat so to speak that captures the pilots brainwaves and enters them into the engine. I wonder, at what point would I stop working on it for how much money? Could someone buy me out to prevent instantaneous travel from reaching the populace? Would they buy me out before I got it to work, or after? Wouldn't the price be very much higher after it worked? Wouldn't it be easier to buy the Y-16 craft as a piece of art for say 100 grand which would make me start building another better unit but yet keep me years away? Then again, it's all imagination. But I still haven't sold out.
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  #17  
Old 01-01-2009, 12:26 PM
SPRINGFIELD SPRINGFIELD is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

Outsider;

You might have some credibility if you posted some of your work. Also it would be interesting to know what you do for a living since you have such high ideals.
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  #18  
Old 01-01-2009, 12:42 PM
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Re: Have you sold out?

Oh cut it out with the science-fiction and the space suits, O. You said it yourself...Sculpture and Painting is "fine" Art. I'll buy that. So, as long as your outlandish musings give-up either one of those, you're okay. The other "arts", including science projects, are always lesser.
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  #19  
Old 01-01-2009, 03:43 PM
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ahirschman ahirschman is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

If I were to do realistic art at this juncture then I would be selling out, and if a realist sculptor were to do non realistic sculptures then they would be selling out. Selling out is a highly personal individualistic process that is also time variant. What I sculpt today may be selling out tomorrow.

Ari.
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  #20  
Old 01-01-2009, 04:12 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahirschman View Post
If I were to do realistic art at this juncture then I would be selling out, and if a realist sculptor were to do non realistic sculptures then they would be selling out. Selling out is a highly personal individualistic process that is also time variant. What I sculpt today may be selling out tomorrow.

Ari.
If you are creating the art that you are inspired to create for the love of art, there is no such thing as selling out. When I carved my first abstract work, it was not selling out, it was growth, exploration...trying something new to experience and learn from it. I would think the same if you were to try realism.
To me, selling out means perverting your talents for the sole purpose of financial gain.
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  #21  
Old 01-02-2009, 06:46 AM
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Re: Have you sold out?

selling out is simple to do, but hard to stop doing.

Last edited by rusted_art : 01-03-2009 at 03:16 AM. Reason: less is more
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  #22  
Old 01-02-2009, 11:55 AM
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Re: Have you sold out?

Black musicians in America, particularly in the mid 20th century, have covered this subject rather exhaustively-
To them, "selling out" was often the difference between eating and starving, living and dying.

The Great Slim Gaillard offers his opinion on selling out-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLr8AfQ4UVk
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  #23  
Old 01-15-2009, 08:47 PM
furby furby is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

Well like did Michelangelo sell out, or any of the other great artists who made what they were commissioned to make? Who spent their lives making what their patrons paid them to do.
Did they take that paid request though, and run with it & make something amazing from the requirements they were given?
Is that selling out or is that being a winner?
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  #24  
Old 01-15-2009, 09:57 PM
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Re: Have you sold out?

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Originally Posted by furby View Post
Well like did Michelangelo sell out, or any of the other great artists who made what they were commissioned to make? Who spent their lives making what their patrons paid them to do.
Did they take that paid request though, and run with it & make something amazing from the requirements they were given?
Is that selling out or is that being a winner?
Furby wins a gold star for that post!
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  #25  
Old 01-15-2009, 10:02 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: Have you sold out?

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Furby wins a gold star for that post!
Yep. Hes right. And there aint no arguing to be done about it... you buggers.
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