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  #51  
Old 12-04-2008, 12:58 PM
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jOe~ jOe~ is offline
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Re: make a living

Quote:
Are you satisfied with never going past pleased, or do you wish to surpass that and head toward glowing screaming joy?
What have I been missing? Gulp! Oh, please some examples. My heart is racing, my palms are sweaty, ... Glowing screaming joy. I want that. Forget David Smith's beautiful stainless cubes and tubes. I repent.
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  #52  
Old 12-04-2008, 01:20 PM
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Re: make a living

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Originally Posted by grommet View Post
On another note, I agree beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Beauty as a goal is trite.




Yeah, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, fickle, unless you're pretty mainstream walmart shallow
I think our ideas of beauty must be wildly divergent. Prior to this thread it would never occur to me to include walmart in a discussion of beauty. Not that beauty is entirely absent from there..if it is there, it is hard to discern under the glare of flourescent lights and retailer miasma.

The beauty that I respond to is so far from trite, that trite is another word, like walmart, that does not enter into my contemplation of it.

Let us take you, for example. If I were to sculpt your portrait, I would be drawn to your inner beauty, and my perception of that as expressed through your outer form. THAT would be the subject of my contemplation, and my love for that inner beauty would move my fingers to do my best to portray that which I percieve, in the hopes that others could be as moved and glimpse the inner beauty that transcends the outer inconsistencies. That which I percieve as the inner beauty is a more permanent aspect of consciousness, which far from being trite is deeply profound.
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  #53  
Old 12-04-2008, 02:26 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: make a living

Cool, I wouldn't have to brush my hair.

In that hypothetical instance, the goal is to interpret your perception into a tangible form. The goal is not beauty.
Next.

Joe, you can ask Glenn about the glowing screaming joy. He has transcended the corporeal and can attest to more worthy paths.
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  #54  
Old 12-04-2008, 02:47 PM
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Re: make a living

So here I am defending GlennT, who wudda thunk?
Quote:
In that hypothetical instance, the goal is to interpret your perception into a tangible form. The goal is not beauty.
Next.
GlennT said : "I would be drawn to your inner beauty, and my perception of that as expressed through your outer form. THAT would be the subject of my contemplation, and my love for that inner beauty would move my fingers". And, you said " beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Seems very clear to me beauty is the goal. I bet he could pull it off, despite any scowl you might throw his way. We'll let that "glowing screaming joy" fade away (though I have seen art do that to people, but its very rare and not some thing I strive for).
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  #55  
Old 12-04-2008, 03:06 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: make a living

Quote:
GlennT said : "I would be drawn to your inner beauty, and my perception of that as expressed through your outer form. THAT would be the subject of my contemplation, and my love for that inner beauty would move my fingers". And, you said " beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Seems very clear to me beauty is the goal. I bet he could pull it off, despite any scowl you might throw his way. We'll let that "glowing screaming joy" fade away (though I have seen art do that to people, but its very rare and not some thing I strive for).
While he may appreciate his perception, the goal is still interpretation, unless he is just whoring inner beauty.

I'm still going for the larger metaphor. Enjoy walmart.
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  #56  
Old 12-04-2008, 04:14 PM
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Re: make a living

Well, gosh darn it, now I'm defending jOe. See what the Christmas spirit can do to people?!

Perception, interpretation, whatever, still, the subject is beauty. The object is the interpretation, but the artist (me, in this case) is drawn to, captivated by, moved to put aside all else so as to meditate upon and translate into another medium the inner ( and perhaps outer) beauty perceived.

As jOe points out, all scowls, along with grimaces, hedging, hemming and hawing, etc. will not distract me from that contemplation. And if it weren't there, I would not be interested.

I think you should drop the walmart thing. I don't think it is resonating with either jOe or me. Besides, Target is closer.
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  #57  
Old 12-04-2008, 04:29 PM
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Re: make a living

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And if it weren't there, I would not be interested.
Hmmm. Gommet may not be inspiring...enough? What do you detect on your inner beauty sensors? Now as for me you know I'm so full of it which is why sometimes you can't deal with it.
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  #58  
Old 12-04-2008, 05:05 PM
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Aaron Schroeder Aaron Schroeder is offline
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Re: make a living

My idea of beauty is finding exactly what you need when you need it. Found only in a moment, not in any particular formal configuration.

Making a living making things is less about the thing and more about setting up peoples perceptions. Changing how people see/sense things is what we get paid to do. We tend to focus on objects, but our objects function primarily to frame/encapsulate events.

What is it were selling ?
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  #59  
Old 12-04-2008, 05:44 PM
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Re: make a living

Aaron,

Like any good marketing person would tell you, we are selling the sizzle - the steak (or other treat) is just along for the ride.

Carl
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  #60  
Old 12-04-2008, 06:42 PM
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Re: make a living

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Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
Hmmm. Gommet may not be inspiring...enough? What do you detect on your inner beauty sensors? Now as for me you know I'm so full of it which is why sometimes you can't deal with it.
I would have to tread delicately to answer that. In grommet I find plenty there to inspire, shyly tucked away to avoid hurt and covered with a heap of attitude. The good sense of humor is welcome as well, although that often comes out as "inner rascal" rather than "inner beauty". But joy is a beautiful thing.

As for you, let me first generalize by saying that there is hardly a person to whom one could not dig deep enough to find that inner beauty. In your case it would not require a backhoe either, nor even a a huge shovel. It would merely require a cease fire in discussing a topic or two, such as politics, religion, art, social concerns, music, literature, philosophy, history, sex, psychology, spirituality, the universe, the multiverse, particle physics, quantum mechanics, sports, food, bicycle tire tread seperation issues, psychic phenomena, UFO's, nutrition, the GNP of Canada, dental floss...
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  #61  
Old 12-04-2008, 06:43 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: make a living

Okay Glenn & Joe, whoring beauty at Target it is. You seek only to produce beauty, adding no interpretation or insight or anything meaningful. An empty gesture devoid of anything but look, ain't it purty. Nothing special in your insight, just replication. Goal attained.

Quote:
Hmmm. Grommet may not be inspiring...enough?
Luckily, I am here for my amusement, not yours.

Well thanks Glenn, but it's more likely a slab of attitude thinly frosted with civility that the cat took a swipe of when no one was looking so a MIG gun was used to write "best of luck, Roxy". And it's all good.
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Last edited by grommet : 12-04-2008 at 06:56 PM.
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  #62  
Old 12-04-2008, 07:00 PM
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Re: make a living

GlennT:
Quote:
It would merely require a cease fire in discussing a topic or two, such as politics, religion, art, social concerns, music, literature, philosophy, history, sex, psychology, spirituality, the universe, the multiverse, particle physics, quantum mechanics, sports, food, bicycle tire tread seperation issues, psychic phenomena, UFO's, nutrition, the GNP of Canada, dental floss...
Well duh(your"duh", Gommie had hers). I told you I was full of it and here you go leaving more than half of it out. You think I'm illiterate or something?

You do have Grommie's number though.

Grommet:
Quote:
Okay Glenn & Joe, whoring beauty at Target it is. You seek only to produce beauty, adding no interpretation or insight or anything meaningful. An empty gesture devoid of anything but look, ain't it purty. Nothing special in your insight, just replication. Goal attained.
Re-read GlennT's comments--he is not looking for outer beauty. He didn't even mention your physical appearance. I refuse to go back and count the number of times we used inner. That is your penance. No replication involved...and attaining the goal is always "iffy". I can't even imagine doing it. Thus my beauty is found in humbler(more stubborn) materials.
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  #63  
Old 12-04-2008, 07:18 PM
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Re: make a living

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I can read. I'm making a point about interpretation. Duh, Joe.
Well duh back again. Of course it is an interpretation no matter how transparent you are--we are talking about, reminding you again, inner. as Glenn said:
Quote:
...In grommet I find plenty there to inspire, shyly tucked away to avoid hurt and covered with a heap of attitude.
He is looking at the very place you refuse to acknowledge. Sorry for the baseball bat approach. I'm done. Back to the dug out.
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  #64  
Old 12-04-2008, 07:52 PM
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Re: make a living

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Originally Posted by grommet View Post
Oh, maybe you're a walmart afficionado.
Wait..I am. Is that a bad thing? I adore mass production, repetition of form, symmetrical display, and the notion of the individually designed verses the machine made...whoa...I'm starting to get a bit light headed. I have made a number of pieces about the unique object that is also mass-made. Wal-mart (and its box store kin) make excellent research libraries.
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  #65  
Old 12-04-2008, 07:57 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: make a living

go for it dude, I was slinging a different metaphor, so you still have dibs.
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  #66  
Old 12-06-2008, 11:58 AM
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Re: make a living

I quite like Walmart when I'm out amonst them, in costume. Cheap stuff, necessities such as Doritos, deisel oil, Super Saver cd's (I always seem to need a new Hey Jude), AA batteries, 50 more pounds of Dog Chow (though my ancient hound Tank is troubled with heart failure - it hasn't slowed his appetite), mums, welcome mats, snow shovels, Right Guard, legos, Sponge Bob, chicken legs (a dozen for 2.89!), soda pop, sweat shirts, 45 lb plates, Liquid Plumber...whew!...and then the Evaldart crew loads back into the crew cab of the 350, replenished and ready.

But unless you care to bother with popular culture trivialities, theres nothing Artworthy there.

It is not the job of the Artist to look into the doings of his kind, nor is it his job to inform them of anything. "Something to say" is a low-set bar.

We all have awakened in a place...this place, that must not interfere, must not thwart, must not deter or distract - if we are to occasionally encounter pertinences...which, as we become less bound, will turn out to be the ONLY worthy things there are.
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  #67  
Old 12-06-2008, 01:17 PM
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Re: make a living

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Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
But unless you care to bother with popular culture trivialities, theres nothing Artworthy there.

It is not the job of the Artist to look into the doings of his kind, nor is it his job to inform them of anything. "Something to say" is a low-set bar.
Unless you are one of those artists who raise the bar beyond simple bodily fumblings with fire and muscle - who DO say something...the very job of artists... then the happenings, causes and effects, and raw everythingnesses of Wal-mart become as ripe and wondrous as an especially ripe and wondrous thing...on a stick.

Please E! Donít you get lonely being the self-ordained proselytizer of the church of the non-contextualized, culturally void, poetically empty yet fully-engaged with thine body, make-it-big and scribble free art object making?
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  #68  
Old 12-06-2008, 03:55 PM
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Re: make a living

Cheese, the best thing about the creative process - and if you're only "fumbling" with your body then you've not yet scratched the surface of your potential - IS that it doesn't care HOW it begins or how it ends. This special activity or heightened event or episode serves DURING its occurrence. The poem you read before this act that you will quote as your inspiration; and the bauble that you nail to the wall are NOT really part of the Art. But the human-ness we endure is indeed handy for getting into the swing of things and also for reflecting upon those better moments when we were in the thick of it...when fire and muscle (or whatever you got) is making ALL the decisions.

Last edited by evaldart : 12-06-2008 at 06:04 PM.
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  #69  
Old 12-06-2008, 06:00 PM
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Re: make a living

Therefore, if I'm following this correctly, Evaldart's studio would be a better representation of an art museum than the Met or the Louvre.
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  #70  
Old 12-06-2008, 06:29 PM
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Re: make a living

Well, if you say so Glenn. But actually, cherished as it is, the studio, anyone's, is just an outfitted and personalized place (unless its also your home and you bed-down with the chain-saws and wake-up with screws stuck in your beard). I'd sooner compare my studio to a boxing gym or an old-man bar.
The Metropolitan Museum of Art is one of my favorite places in the world, and I still go there very often to sort through all the evidence of great creative endeavors already accomplished - its so nice to know for sure that those thing happened. But most of the displayed handiworks are quite unworthy of an Artists attention..its okay, though, because they didn't make those places for US. Museums are like Walmart, Yankee Stadium and Disneyland...our arms and legs and chattering head-boxes will get us in - for a good time - but then it must be back to where we belong...there, wherever that may be, amid another solitary physical engagement against some matter that would RATHER NOT do what we wish it would do.
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  #71  
Old 12-06-2008, 06:36 PM
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Re: make a living

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...when fire and muscle (or whatever you got) is making ALL the decisions.
That almost sounds like a back handed disclaimer or escape clause. In fact, if I was going to think about this, this is what I'd latch on to . But, I know it points to the essential elements that are only confused by ordinary thinking and start unspeakable and unintelligible arguments when it is thought about without knowing first what it is your thought is trying to elucidate. You can't be anal about it. That can be an Herculean task, like the vernacular saying goes, to "get your head out of your ass". The work can be done without even dealing directly with this if you focus on the real problem of why
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some matter that would RATHER NOT do what we wish it would do.
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  #72  
Old 12-06-2008, 07:00 PM
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Re: make a living

Yer right Joe. I should have said "WHAT" you got" rather than "whatever". What I meant was that we all possess varying, unique and unusual ways, methods, strengths, etc., when it comes to getting the Art done. There-in lies all the promise and potency.
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  #73  
Old 12-06-2008, 07:05 PM
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Re: make a living

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Yer right Joe. I should have said "WHAT" you got" rather than "whatever".
Well, whatever(as in teen speak). I was just agreeing and not saying you should have used a different word because that is on the verge of being anal. I was just re-stating what might not be obvious for those inclined to think about this.
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  #74  
Old 12-06-2008, 10:37 PM
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Re: make a living

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What I meant was that we all possess varying, unique and unusual ways, methods, strengths, etc., when it comes to getting the Art done. There-in lies all the promise and potency.
Amen. Do your work.

Bill
www.billwolff.net
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  #75  
Old 12-07-2008, 11:50 AM
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Re: make a living

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Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
Cheese, the best thing about the creative process - and if you're only "fumbling" with your body then you've not yet scratched the surface of your potential - IS that it doesn't care HOW it begins or how it ends. This special activity or heightened event or episode serves DURING its occurrence. The poem you read before this act that you will quote as your inspiration; and the bauble that you nail to the wall are NOT really part of the Art. But the human-ness we endure is indeed handy for getting into the swing of things and also for reflecting upon those better moments when we were in the thick of it...when fire and muscle (or whatever you got) is making ALL the decisions.
Naw. Art IS a social function that draws strength from connectivity. The art IS the act (on that we agree) AND the subject AND the object (or experience). To limit art to some self-indulgent solo act of creation is meditation at best and masturbation at worst.

scratch that Ė reverse it
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