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  #1  
Old 10-09-2008, 10:40 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
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The Economy

With the Stock market falling 40% coupled with the freeze in the credit markets, the effects on the broader economy is now being felt, as the recession takes hold. For example, car sales are 30% down...

Personally I think the art world will be one of the hardest hit as non essential spending is reduced...

What do you all think about this ?

G
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  #2  
Old 10-10-2008, 12:45 AM
cooljamesx1 cooljamesx1 is offline
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Re: The Economy

buy buy buy!
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  #3  
Old 10-10-2008, 01:40 AM
Skeezix Skeezix is offline
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Re: The Economy

I think it depends on our individual demographics. If your work appeals to the general population, than you are probably in trouble, but if you like to market at the super rich, you will probably do just fine.
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  #4  
Old 10-10-2008, 05:52 AM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: The Economy

I'm coming off my best show of the year (this month). While I'll admit that the year as whole has been lighter than 07 (August and Sept were a bust) I can only see this, as it relates to me, as nothing more than the usual fluctuations from one year to the next. We are probably not selling to the people who suffer most by harder times.

It has always kept me busy to never depend on one venue/method of selling. Do the paperwork, fill out the appliocations, proposals, beat the street and get in that loaded truck and drive. So many times the things that seemed like they would be a big waste turned into paydays. I learned this long ago. Also, I never depend upon one body of work. Got to make it all, everything that tantalizes; from functional to the finest of the fine. There will be "jobs" and there will be unsellable indulgences...got to make it ALL.

Humans CANNOT resist Art, it wakes up something deep within them and they recognize it as vital...Dow Jones ticker-tapes wont be able to squash this. Folks'll do without other things. A hardworking and prolific Artist needn't worry about "getting by" but he should always worry about whether certain bodies of work are providing the RIGHT self-determinations - and these particular, more important bodies of work might never give you a damned dollar; but they'll inform lesser works and keep you vigorously confident and "in-the-know" (and if you're executing them properly you'll stay strong, as well).

I'm loading over to another show on Saturday as the market plunges, followed shortly by an open-studio event at my place, followed by the dragging of some major abstractions up to a sculpture park - some stuff pays-off, some doesn't... but its what we do. ALL of it.
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  #5  
Old 10-10-2008, 06:39 AM
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Blacksun Blacksun is offline
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Re: The Economy

Well said Evaldart!
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  #6  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:25 AM
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iowasculptor iowasculptor is offline
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Re: The Economy

Bring it on! My commissions are way up, and my wife's sales of her art was up from 07. I look forward to the correction in the economy, home prices falling, might now be able to purchase a home in stead of rent one, a surplus of cars, sounds like there will be some good deals. Can't get credit, perhaps people should start to live within their means? People out of work, sounds like university student numbers will be up. While I feel some concern for those who are near retirement, for the rest of us it actually could be a good thing. Go to a pay as you go and end this stock market, oil speculation, home speculation farce. Our government and our business sectors are to blame for passing deregulation opening up the market to really stupid money making strategies.
Matt
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  #7  
Old 10-10-2008, 07:28 AM
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StevenW StevenW is offline
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Re: The Economy

Price goes down, demand goes up. Price goes up, demand goes down. Fortunes are made in recessions and as stock prices fall commodities become more affordable. I scored a $2000.00 Pella front door with custom stained glass for 200 bucks at Lowes last month from a returned order because the pre-hung frame had some minor dents in it. Whoopdee-do.. The door itself and glass are mint, 36x80.. Also scored some Millgard windows for 40 bucks each, easily 2k in windows..

There's some sweet deals going on out there and if you want a car or house or whatever than now's the time to do it. If the whole thing goes down the toilet we'll all be in the same boat anyway so what difference does it make.
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  #8  
Old 10-10-2008, 09:51 AM
outsider outsider is offline
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Re: The Economy

As a visionary, I believe in multiple world theory. I see a few of the possible worlds in the future. I sincerely hope for us all, that we do not take the paths that take us to, and we become, one of those bad ones I see.

USA USSR USSA ?
United Socialist States of America?
Feds buying mortgages (private land)...banks...
Take over of health care... what's next?

Anyone else fear the government dictating artists' output?

We are in the midst of a world war! This is World War III. It's being fought with paper...so far!
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  #9  
Old 10-10-2008, 10:15 AM
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Re: The Economy

Quote:
Anyone else fear the government dictating artists' output?
No. Not at all. Why would they. There would be no money to be made that way. They only want to control money and the means of production, or annoyances to what it considers proper or normal and thus the safe and the acceptable. So you see, they won't try to dictate. but do have a very serious interest in the control, i.e., content. But that's been enforced for a long time. So the best safe guard is to resist all the fucking censorship that has crept into not only government but the culture as a whole. This is a carry over from a few exchanges between Zazie, Sculptor and myself on an another thread.
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  #10  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:02 AM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: The Economy

Maybe some "artists" will allow their output to be dictated by the government. Not me...ever. Even when I do "jobs"...its just a less invigorating and more "functioning" version of ME.
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  #11  
Old 10-10-2008, 11:09 AM
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jOe~ jOe~ is offline
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Re: The Economy

Quote:
Not me...ever. Even when I do "jobs"...its just a less invigorating and more "functioning" version of ME.
You know what to protect. Spread the word.
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  #12  
Old 10-11-2008, 03:44 AM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: The Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giotto View Post
...Personally I think the art world will be one of the hardest hit as non essential spending is reduced ...
Well, it all depends. Are you aspiring to be in the same league as Damien Hirst, Jeff Koons and Lucian Freud. It is not necessarily so in the high end art market, see below.

Rush to buy art and side-step the global banking meltdown

8 Oct 2008 Super-rich investors are pouring their money into art and antiques to protect it from the global banking meltdown.

A report from the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors said the top end of the market, where items sell for 50,000 or more, is 'booming'.

A spokesman said: 'Investors are now becoming more selective in their purchases and this is likely to carry on as the super-rich continue to use the industry as an alternative investment vehicle.' ....
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  #13  
Old 10-11-2008, 09:09 AM
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Re: The Economy

Ev,has the right take on the situation.Diversivication,get your hands in many pies,and there will be a slice to eat.IA
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  #14  
Old 10-11-2008, 01:29 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
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Re: The Economy

Ev, I like your spirit....and I will give you that high end art is selling as an investment...but if you understand how the financial system works then you know money just isn't circulating. As a result most of those near or at retirement age have simply hunkered down....which compounds the physiology of the situation. In all of my life I have never seen a global credit freeze and in this way things are different. I have no doubt we are in a recession but this time I think it could go on for several years. Here in oregon I noticed one of our largest galleries has just gone up for sale....

I guess the point of all of this is that this December I was thinking of seeking gallery representation...I may put that off and focus on other things until the economy looks better.

Here is a article on what's happening with consumer spending that makes my point

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-bud...3L1xAzpo9O7sMF

G
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  #15  
Old 10-11-2008, 02:27 PM
cooljamesx1 cooljamesx1 is offline
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Re: The Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
Price goes down, demand goes up. Price goes up, demand goes down.
you've got it backwards. demand goes up, prices go up, demand goes down, prices go down. it is an important distinction that demand regulates prices and not the other way around.
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  #16  
Old 10-11-2008, 04:10 PM
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Re: The Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by cooljamesx1 View Post
you've got it backwards. demand goes up, prices go up, demand goes down, prices go down. it is an important distinction that demand regulates prices and not the other way around.
'cepting, i think for the deregulation which led to virtually free money which had too much money chasing the housing stock which caused the bubble
so under that impetus
prices go up, (perceived "easy money") demand goes up
as speculation( greater fool method of investing?---"buy high, sell higher")?

query
did central banks start selling gold friday to get cash for their bail-outs?
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  #17  
Old 10-11-2008, 05:03 PM
Giotto Giotto is offline
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Re: The Economy

Here is one way to make money...
G
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  #18  
Old 10-11-2008, 07:19 PM
CroftonGraphics CroftonGraphics is offline
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Re: The Economy

I may be wrong but I think I recall a radio 4 documentary with Alvin Hall,
he is american, did you banish him to the UK or something? Hes harmless anyway.

It was about how the high art economy was booming even in this economy.
One person mentioned that the art market often is a year or two behind the rest of the economy.

On the other side of the coin, in an economic slump where people can no longer get the mortgage for some home beyond their means, perhaps they may want to buy artworks for the homes they cannot move from.

Apart from that, if the global money system collapses, anyone know a good book on cave painting techniques? lol.
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  #19  
Old 10-12-2008, 04:31 AM
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tonofelephant tonofelephant is offline
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Re: The Economy

Crofton,

Nay, instead of cave painting - I'm thinking interior stone sculpture (in caves). Hard for me to believe though, as someone always behind the curve - am I really in the forefront (stone sculpting) for the first time in my life????

Carl
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  #20  
Old 10-12-2008, 09:45 AM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: The Economy

That'll be nice, one of you doing cave paintings and the other cave sculptures.
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Last edited by Merlion : 10-12-2008 at 10:00 AM.
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  #21  
Old 10-12-2008, 03:55 PM
outsider outsider is offline
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Re: The Economy

2008 Econ Crisis.
With all the corporate mergers such as GM Ford and Crysler becoming 1, and this crisis is global, any guesses when or if countries will start merging?
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  #22  
Old 10-12-2008, 04:40 PM
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Re: The Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by outsider View Post
... if countries will start merging?
do you mean, as in europe?
The prior "clash in corporate cultures" there has reverberated around the world.
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  #23  
Old 10-12-2008, 08:19 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: The Economy

My guess is the opposite, I am imagining accruing indifference and a gathering dispertion.
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  #24  
Old 10-12-2008, 08:38 PM
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jOe~ jOe~ is offline
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Re: The Economy

My guess is name calling and fist fights.
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  #25  
Old 10-12-2008, 11:40 PM
cooljamesx1 cooljamesx1 is offline
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Re: The Economy

Quote:
Originally Posted by sculptor View Post
'cepting, i think for the deregulation which led to virtually free money which had too much money chasing the housing stock which caused the bubble
so under that impetus
prices go up, (perceived "easy money") demand goes up
demand didn't go up, prices fell (in the short term, people are dumb) causing SALES to go up. very important difference.
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