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  #26  
Old 03-31-2007, 03:30 PM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

It seems like we need another thread category, at least one that would open just before major Christian holidays, called " It's Attack Religion Time".

Blake: I think your work is too beautiful to be controversial. It shows maturity, talent, and restraint. I suppose in these times those qualities could be considered reactionary .

GlennT
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  #27  
Old 03-31-2007, 05:01 PM
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Landseer Landseer is offline
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT
It seems like we need another thread category, at least one that would open just before major Christian holidays, called " It's Attack Religion Time".

Unfortunately they interjected themselves unwanted, into the man's art show and disrupted it enough it's cancelled and they did it with threats to the hotel as well as death threats, offhand I'd say THAT whole matter seriously shows what is wrong with the entire church and it's deciples to not only act in that fashion but others condone it by not acting AGAINST it.
Maybe a few people should start calling these churches and pastors and start making a few counter-threats to them and see how the shoe fits on the other foot when they have to hire armed guards just to hold Sunday services or leave the building unattended at night!

Last time I looked this was America, not the sub-country of the pope's Vatican, Italy.

Emboldend by this subversive "victory" they will do this again, next time it could be YOUR sculptures, then the next time after that it could be because an event is held on SUNDAY, and then after that because a community prayer wasn't said before the show and money proffered by the well-to-do into the church coffers to have them look the other way.

Crooked, subversive, hypocritical bastards- every time I read about these scummy hypocritical church bastards - the whole damn bunch of them and their little crooked doings- I get sick to my stomach!

Beauty does not guarantee it won't be attacked, for Michaelangelo's David, replicas of it, and others have had their genitals covered up or attacked in some fashion. Let's not forget artwork uncovered in Pompei and Herculaneum had their genitals hacked off or otherwise obliterated, and some were re-buried because of the right wing xtains and their subversive 2nd century ways.

Last edited by Landseer : 03-31-2007 at 05:52 PM.
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  #28  
Old 03-31-2007, 05:23 PM
Rick Clise Rick Clise is offline
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
Here a Crucifix that I made some time ago, I think that it pretty much goes along with the chocolate Christ, but as with Duck, I just don’t think that I will get the world wide attention….. I wonder if perhaps it is because I haven't shown it in the states, or has it got something to do with Easter?
The Title is "Adam" just to confuse the issue.
If anyone can figure it out please let me know
Blake
Hiya Blake, have you thought of casting a series of your Crucifix in chocolate? Perhaps an edition of thousands? Just in time for the next Easter? That should get religious militants up in arms! They'd probably have to post armed guards around the chocolate factory. Just think of the news coverage!

Cheers, Rick
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  #29  
Old 04-01-2007, 04:18 AM
Funes Funes is offline
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT
It seems like we need another thread category, at least one that would open just before major Christian holidays, called " It's Attack Religion Time".
GlennT
It's not an attack on religion so much as an attack on blind faith and those that seek to impose their religious values on other people - and frankly I think they deserve to be attacked ( though not in a physical sense ).
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  #30  
Old 04-01-2007, 04:46 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Glenn
I appreciate that you see the beauty within this sculpture, as that is the first objective within my work, thank you. Also knowing that you are a spiritual man, I am pleased that the work has not caused offense as this is of course not my intention.
That being said, the press may not be a bad thing as it does publisize the artists name and we artists all need this….. the artist probably called in the death threats himself so that he could get the news coverage.

Rick
I think that this is a great idea, one-quarter life-size chocolate Christs for Easter, do you think I can get a major chocolate manufacturer to sponsor it?
How would this go over in Australia?
I don’t mind the death threats so long as noone carries through, and so long as the press spells the name right.

Blake
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  #31  
Old 04-01-2007, 06:08 AM
Rick Clise Rick Clise is offline
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
<snip>

Rick
I think that this is a great idea, one-quarter life-size chocolate Christs for Easter, do you think I can get a major chocolate manufacturer to sponsor it?
How would this go over in Australia?
I don’t mind the death threats so long as noone carries through, and so long as the press spells the name right.

Blake
Hi Blake, I don't know what the general market would be here in Oz for them but I'd buy a few! An Adelaide maker of fine chocolates - Haighs Chocolates - makes and sells a delicious local variant of the easter bunny, the 'easter bilby', and they have been making and selling them for years. Rabbits are an introduced species in Australia and can be terrible pests in this country, while the bilby is a native marsupial that (if you sorta squint a bit) could be mistaken for a somewhat deformed bunny.

So we might be able to find a local manufacturer for you. And I'm sure that we can also organise appropriate threats, with corresponding press!

:-)

Rick
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  #32  
Old 04-01-2007, 06:31 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Sign me up for one. Cant afford a stone or a bronze Blake, but a chocolate one would fit the budget - I'd surely end up eating it at 3 am in lieu of a peanut butter sandwich (my middle of the night sugar-fix). But thats okay, cause there would be tons of them.
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  #33  
Old 04-01-2007, 06:49 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

There is a market. Blake, you'd better act fast.

Artist says offers are pouring in for chocolate Jesus sculpture

April 1, 2007

Offers to buy or exhibit a nude chocolate sculpture of Jesus have poured in since the piece caused a stir and lost its gallery space in New York, said the artist who made it.

But artist Cosimo Cavallaro said Saturday he also received some threats, so he is storing the sculpture for now in a refrigerted truck in an unidentified location. .....

Cavallaro said the controversy spurred "thousands of e-mail messages from people offering help, donations and exhibition space.

"It's quite amazing" he said.
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  #34  
Old 04-01-2007, 07:56 AM
cmustard cmustard is offline
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

I don't find this piece particularly offense or even close to the edge. I do however agree with what GlennT says in post #11.
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  #35  
Old 04-01-2007, 10:56 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Evidently I have missed my calling as a chocolate maker.
I think that this is a great idea although we are a little late for this year and much too late if we want to claim that the idea is original.
Notwithstanding……
When we pull a wax it is much like a chocolate would be, of course there would be some problems making it stand upright, and repairing the seams, but we can figure that out… cast a limited edition of say 5000.
I’ve already sold one to evaldart

Blake
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  #36  
Old 04-02-2007, 12:21 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
Here a Crucifix that I made some time ago, I think that it pretty much goes along with the chocolate Christ, but as with Duck, I just don’t think that I will get the world wide attention….. I wonder if perhaps it is because I haven't shown it in the states, or has it got something to do with Easter?
The Title is "Adam" just to confuse the issue.
If anyone can figure it out please let me know
Blake
Did you name your Crucifix "Adam" from the viewpoint that the bible refers to Jesus as the "Last Adam"? So technically, it's biblically accurate from that perspective. ( 1 cor 15:45 "The first man Adam became a living soul. the last Adam became a life giving spirit.) So... you might not be stirring any controversies with Christians from calling him "Adam". But now if you do a chocolate version of him they might think it's a tad sacriligious. :-)
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  #37  
Old 04-02-2007, 01:51 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Tom Waits did a song about a chocolate jesus, he called it an immaculate confection. Fun song, anyone else hear it.
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  #38  
Old 04-02-2007, 02:00 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Dear HappySculpting
I am pleased to have an official opinion on the Title thank you.
The reason that I portrayed the work this way, without biblical references (there is no crown of thorns, no nails, no wound, no loin cloth, and no cross) is that I wanted to depict this figure as a man, in order to imply that the Christian church had distorted reality to suit their purposes, and that the bible can not be read literaly but is meant mythically. The title is meant to confirm the idea that this is a man, as Adam is symbolically the first man. What ever further interpretation one chooses to apply to this man is the individual’s choice. The sculpture represents the foundation upon which further postulation is based.

I think that casting the work in chocolate would detract from this purpose as the work could be considered a joke at that point, and this work is not meant as a joke.

Blake
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  #39  
Old 04-02-2007, 02:17 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron Schroeder
Tom Waits did a song about a chocolate jesus, he called it an immaculate confection. Fun song, anyone else hear it.
I have not heard it, but Google knows the lyrics. Here are some of it.

Chocolate Jesus

Well, I don't go to church on Sunday
Don't get on my knees to pray
Don't memorize the books of the bible
I got my special way

I know Jesus loves me
maybe just a little bit more
I fall down on my knees every Sunday
at Zerelda Lee's candy store

Well, I've got to be a chocolate Jesus
Make me feel good inside
Got to be a chocolate Jesus
Keep me satisfied .....

Written by Tom Waits and Kathleen Waits-Brennan, 1999
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  #40  
Old 04-02-2007, 02:30 AM
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Aaron Schroeder Aaron Schroeder is offline
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Thanks merlion, that's it exactly. Your dedication to search and post has yet to be matched. Yoo the MAN !!
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  #41  
Old 04-02-2007, 08:55 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake
I wanted to depict this figure as a man, in order to imply that the Christian church had distorted reality to suit their purposes,

Blake
The distortion goes on and on, the crucifix itself is said to have been but a single ten foot pole with a few stones piled around the base. My hat’s off to Cusimo and his sweet Jesus.
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  #42  
Old 04-02-2007, 10:26 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck
The distortion goes on and on, the crucifix itself is said to have been but a single ten foot pole with a few stones piled around the base. My hat’s off to Cusimo and his sweet Jesus.
Yes, he died on a stake, an upright pole, as the common criminals were regulartly impailed on. It was not a cross. His hands were above his head and nailed to the solitary post with one nail. There are many distortions and adaptations from the original truth- but that's a whole nother' subject.

Blake- yes, your work is no joke- a pleasure to see as always.
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  #43  
Old 04-02-2007, 07:38 PM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennT
Blake: I think your work is too beautiful to be controversial. It shows maturity, talent, and restraint.
Hope you are not implying that controversial works cannot be beautiful, or vice versa. This is a general comment and not related to Blake's beautiful work.

Isn't it a wrong perception that evil things are ugly, and good things are beautiful. The big problem is that society believe beautiful people to be good, and the ugly people to be bad or evil.
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Last edited by Merlion : 04-02-2007 at 09:46 PM.
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  #44  
Old 04-02-2007, 08:46 PM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

I don't have a problem with it. The way I see it: If it weren't chocolate no one would complain. It almost seems fitting, given that Easter and chocolate traditionally go together.
Where's the sense of humor here. Christ himself is probably laughing his head off over the absurdity of it.

Mark

Last edited by desertrock : 04-03-2007 at 10:45 AM.
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  #45  
Old 04-02-2007, 09:46 PM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

The Catholic league has a history of flying off the handle over perceived slights, which are usually way overblown- for instance, a few years ago, they got all upset about an installation a friend of mine did- Spanish Artist Miralda, who installed a piece at the Copia museum in Napa that included, amongst something like 1000 other components, 20 or so "caganers" which are little figurines of a person pooping, which are traditionally put in nativity scenes in Catalonia.
Some of the Caganers he has collected included Santa Claus, Nuns, Popes, and angels defacating. These are all folk art objects he collected, which are sold in Catalonia for use in nativity scenes- even the official catholic scenes outside the cathedral feature these, andt the tradition goes back a couple of hundred years- but the Catholic league, without any research or knowledge, decided they were a slur against Catholicism.

http://www.ncac.org/art/20020107~USA...stallation.cfm

The difference I see with this chocolate jesus is that its basically a one-liner- its a kitsch image of christ, one we have seen a million times, rendered in chocolate. There is no creativity here, no real interest.
Just because someone can accurately sculpt the image of christ, doesnt mean I have any interest in looking at it, one more time. I purposely skip churches in Italy- I am overdosed on christian images for my entire life, as it is.

Contrast this to the Andres Serrano "Piss Christ" photographs, which are part of a series of works that makes, to me anyway, interesting comments about how we think about religion, culture, and the sacred. And, additionally, the Serrrano photographs are stunningly beautiful in real life- I would love to have one in my home. Unfortunately, they are quite expensive, as many other collectors feel the way I do.
I dont think this chocolate jesus has much intrinsic beauty or interest, beyond the joke- I would not want to look at it again and again, it would not make me think. Like most Kitsch, it makes its statement only to the degree it reflects on how superiour we are to people who take crucifixes seriously.
The Serrano pieces, in my opinion, are a whole nother, higher level of art, pieces that function on many levels at once, and, whatever you think of them, are not kitsch.
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  #46  
Old 04-02-2007, 09:51 PM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

I remember my first holy communion very well. 14 years old. It was the first time alcohol had passed my lips - Mogen David, the cheapest damn red wine known to man. Could'a ruined me and scared me away from booze forever; but I got over it. And the pastor just went right down the line with that big fancy cup pouring away into everyone's gaping maws (at the end of the row I was mortified by thoughts of backwash). So then that drinking of the blood was quickly followed-up by the stuffing-in of that cardboard piece of the lord's body. And there was no lunch-lady glove, just spittled fingers dipping to the rythm of whatever incantation echoed for our eventual benefit. People had stronger constitutions then. I'm sure its done different now that we are out of the dark ages. But I don't know.
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  #47  
Old 04-02-2007, 11:25 PM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Is it correct Jesus ask his followers to eat his body and drink his blood, and to do it frequently? It is a very horrid idea, isn't it?
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Last edited by Merlion : 04-03-2007 at 09:36 AM.
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  #48  
Old 04-03-2007, 09:47 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Many religious ideas are horrid if they are interpreted as literal with the intellect instead of with a spiritual understanding. If you understand that the symbolic vehicles of the communion wine and waffer are supposed to be infused with spiritual light via the blessing, and what you are partaking of is an infusion of a part of the Spiritual body of Christ, not flesh and blood, it at least becomes more understandable even if one is the type of person who is "far superior" to those who take the such matters seriously.

Truly horrid are the Islamic fanatics who take teachings that were meant to be applied to one's own internal cleansing and purification, and instead turn it into an external battle as a " holy" war against all people who do not accept their way. They don't manufacture death threats for the sake of publicity, they actually mean to carry them out if they are able. They fail to recognize that all members of the faiths of Judism, Christianity, and Islam share a common link to the prophet Abraham, and consequently are all brothers literally as well as figuratively.

There are a lot of religious teachings that have been perverted or used to justify anti-religious behavior because they have been interpreted by the carnal mind to create a justification for bad intentions. When interpreted with the higher mind these teachings are beautiful and instructive, and if not cherished ought to be at least respected and not made the butt of disrespectful attacks. It is fine to point out the corruptors of a doctrine, but they do not represent the truth behind that which they misuse.

In regards to the sculpture in question, it is hard for me to take it seriously when it's theme and exhibition is timed to provoke the maximum negative response and gain publicity therefrom. I personally am not moved by it one way or the other, but they weren't going after me. I just see it as another in a series of "prank art" whose purpose is to provoke a response for publicity rather than add anything positive to the art world. In this it succeeded.

GlennT
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  #49  
Old 04-03-2007, 10:44 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Glenn, don't take what I said just now seriously. I'm not attacking nor defending any religion.
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  #50  
Old 04-03-2007, 11:03 AM
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Re: Nude Chocolate Christ

Merlion:

I did not think that you were attacking, it was actually a valid question given the literal interpretation. I took the occaision both to answer your query and to respond in general to the barrage of religious contempt that comes out every time some aspect of a religious topic enters into the discussion of artwork here.

I think of you as the ultimate newscaster...putting out the news, controversial or not, without adding much of your own personal bias to the presentation. Thanks for keeping us informed!

GlennT
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