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  #1  
Old 02-23-2006, 10:15 PM
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GWayne GWayne is offline
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Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

If natural talent, hard work, and dedication were in a race, who would win and why?

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  #2  
Old 02-24-2006, 12:47 AM
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWayne
If natural talent, hard work, and dedication were in a race, who would win and why?
My response is that it is a wrong question. To be a really good sculptor, all three are necessary, plus one more, passion.
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  #3  
Old 02-24-2006, 10:56 AM
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GWayne GWayne is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

The question/topic was posted to encourage a meaningful and intelligent dialogue, not to elicit dismissive statements.

I found an interesting article on line that relates to this topic. Click on the link below to read it.

http://www.wholenote.com/default.asp...m.asp%3Fi%3D62

GWayne

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Last edited by GWayne : 02-24-2006 at 10:59 AM.
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  #4  
Old 02-24-2006, 12:54 PM
warren01 warren01 is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Can you clarify by what is meant my talent?

Referring to the article it does not mention if all of this practice makes you more talented or creative. Just because you can play or even copy somebody elses work and do it as good as they can does not mean you are a "talented" sculptor. I think you have to look at sculpture to be more creative than talent. You can always higher the talent.

warren
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  #5  
Old 02-24-2006, 02:06 PM
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GWayne GWayne is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Talent:

A marked innate ability, as for artistic accomplishment.

Quote:

Certainly, having a natural ability to learn some of the more common concepts of the guitar and music, such as chords, scales, rhythm playing, soloing, etc. will place you higher up on the learning curve than if these things were not intuitive. This concept is perhaps applicable to a few different topics such as science, athletics, art, etc. People tend to naturally gravitate towards things that initially come easy to them, and parents often try to nurture these "talents" in their children with lessons, resources, and supplies.

However, this is only the start. To gain any type of mastery of a specific genre, one must spend some portion of time learning, practicing, and honing their craft.

Source: wholenote

I think the article is basically saying that having "natural talent" can give you a "head start" as far as the initial learning process is concerned, but hard work and dedication will allow a person to reach their artistic goals.


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  #6  
Old 02-24-2006, 06:53 PM
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Quote:
If natural talent, hard work, and dedication were in a race, who would win and why?
If they were in a race to becoming the "best" world sculptor then natural talent is in first place. But they, of course, have to be hard working and dedicated, which essentially means they have a passion for their work.

I don't believe Mr.Hard Work or Mr. Dedicated would ever get to the finish line of that race. They might be able to copy a certain style or technically perform accurate sculpting but the artistic expression would be minimal at best, thus they would never achieve the "best" world sculptor award.

My mother raised 4 kids and didn't have time to develop her natural abilities for art. Her keen artistic eye can now be seen as she transforms a flatland into an oasis with rolling hills, boulders, redwoods and other trees and plants perfectly placed. She has a breathtaking decorative ability in the home as well. Many a time growing up I'd catch her doodling a horse or flower basket as she was talking on the phone.

If mom were to take up sculpting, I believe that she would find herself moving the clay to achieve the mood of her heart like she does with landscaping etc, etc. . She would advance far quicker than the average student with no talent. She would in the end achieve fine art whereas the talentless student would not.

Hard work and dedication can get you a form of art but not art that captures something you can't explain but it draws you in. That takes an eye that can not be taught. Skill can be learned through hard work but never achieving the artistic eye.

In the end, talent will lay as a seed in your soul and never grow if not applied passionately to that which it desires. If applied, will surpass all. (of course!)
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  #7  
Old 02-24-2006, 08:24 PM
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Quote:
Originally Posted by GWayne
The question/topic was posted to encourage a meaningful and intelligent dialogue, not to elicit dismissive statements.
It is not my habit to make flippant comments. There are good reasons why I say it is a wrong question.

Separating natural talents from hard work and dedication is something lazy art students and learners would give as excuses. Also this is sometimes used by art teachers and senior artists to give an inferiority complex to newcomers that they just do not have the natural talent.

Talent for art can be cultivated, or nutured. Actually the key ingredient is a passion for it. And this is under our control. Inborn natural talent is something we cannot do anything about.
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Old 02-24-2006, 08:57 PM
arcdawg arcdawg is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Quote:
Originally Posted by Merlion
My response is that it is a wrong question. To be a really good sculptor, all three are necessary, plus one more, passion.

took the words right off my keyboard

I know a bunch of people that have plenty of talent but the hard work ethic isnt there so they end up wasting their talent.....

I might not ever become a KNOWN artist but its rewarding to me to have people come up to me and go wow thats cool !!! LOTS OF MUNNY WOULD HELP THOUGH

dawg
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  #9  
Old 02-24-2006, 11:56 PM
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Wink Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Merlion,

If we’re talking about a short race, I think talent would win. But if we’re talking about a marathon, I would say it would have to be a draw–lol!
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  #10  
Old 02-25-2006, 08:15 AM
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

I agree with Merlion,the question is a little akward.You can not be succesful because you have talent,or just work hard,you have to combine all three,throw in that passion for creating,and bingo everybody wins the race.I was far from the most talentet artist at are art school,but I had the drive and passion to take it further than the gifted artist that were to slack or intreverted to deal with thr reality of the art business.Talents a good start, but it only gets you to the foot of the mountain,still got to clime it though,and that takes work and dedication to push yourself mentaly and physically to the edge and the top....IA
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  #11  
Old 02-25-2006, 12:39 PM
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GWayne GWayne is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Merlion,

The question/topic that I posted is not "wrong", because it doesn't have an answer that is a proven truth or fact, just personal opinions.

I feel that painting, sculpting, and drawing are skills that can be learned, and anyone can cultivate "talent" if they work hard at developing it.

GWayne

www.http://www.georgewayne.com

Last edited by GWayne : 02-25-2006 at 01:21 PM.
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  #12  
Old 02-25-2006, 01:08 PM
G. Murdoch G. Murdoch is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

A couple of weeks ago I took a diamond "christmas tree" profile bit to a machine shop. The shank was 3/8" and I needed it to be taken down to 1/4" so that it would fit in my die grinder and Foredom. When I arrived to pick it up, the machinist who did the work asked me what it was for. I told him I was carving marble sculptures. He became very animated, telling me that he had been running the shop for 20 years, fabricating a wide variety of things according to the specs of various clients, yet he had never made anything artistic. I encouraged him to try. He became despondent, saying that he had no vision, no idea what to make. He finished by saying that talent is a gift from God, you either have it or you don't. If you have this gift, you must dedicate yourself to it's development through discipline and hard work.

I left the shop in a contemplative mood as I drove to the studio (to try my new toy!). Here was a man with enough technical skill to blow many artists out of the water, he could fabricate damn near anything to precision, yet he had no inspiration in the form of visual ideas, and it saddened him.

I agree that the analogy of a race is perhaps a poor one. Here's another analogy in the form of a recipie for artistic achievement:

1) Take talent (whatever measure you've got), place in the forge of discipline and hard work. What emerges is skill.
2) Take skill, stir in inspired visions. Place into the forge of discipline and hard work.
3) Repeat 1 & 2 for a lifetime. What emerges may be art.

Graham
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  #13  
Old 02-25-2006, 03:13 PM
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Hi, TALENT wins every time.
A talented person can make something that a person with a great work ethic AND dedication would NEVER EVER THINK OF.
I would rather, as a talented person, make one great work of art than make 50 mediocre works, which is what the person with the great work ethic and dedication would produce!
That said, hard work, dedication and passion ARE ingredients for producing good and maybe even great work.
Actually, having the right CONTACTS is the most important thing.
LUCK favors the prepared mind!
Have a nice day,
Jeff
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  #14  
Old 02-25-2006, 05:06 PM
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GWayne GWayne is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Interesting quote that I once heard.

"Natural talent gets a lot of glory but hard work requires a lot of PASSION"

GWayne

http://www.georgewayne.com

Last edited by GWayne : 02-25-2006 at 05:36 PM.
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  #15  
Old 02-25-2006, 05:20 PM
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Talent, hard work, and dedication?

Good question...

Talent, hard work, and dedication can also produce a 'technician' -- someone quite competent but with little creativity.
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  #16  
Old 02-25-2006, 07:21 PM
gonzo gonzo is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

alright, enough mental masterbation
just sculpt already

anyway,
an answer is probably the same as for a pro athlete, one needs natural abilty, or you don't have a chance, then in addition you need hard work/dedication, and just like a pro, heart/soul is what separates the good pro from average

gonzo
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  #17  
Old 02-28-2006, 12:20 PM
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Gonzo, cool masterbation.
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  #18  
Old 03-01-2006, 11:44 AM
G. Murdoch G. Murdoch is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

I agree with Jeff that in addition to talent, hard work, and dedication, contacts and BASIC BUSINESS SKILLS make all the difference. In '01 I spent 6 months in Santa Fe with friend and mentor Somers Randolph. He suggested I stroll Canyon Road (dozens of high end commercial galleries). I spent about 5 hours looking at a wide variety of art, focusing on stone sculpture. When I got back, Somers asked me what I thought about what I had seen. I told him that I liked some stuff, didn't care for most of it, didn't see any stonecarvings I couldn't do better myself. He said "Oh, so you are as good a stone carver as any of those artists on display on Canyon Road?" I said I was a better stone carver than anyone I had seen that day. He said "Really? Show me your porfolio (at that time an envelope of random snapshots). How many gallery shows have you had? (none). How many times have you produced a coherent body of work, say 5-10 carvings, documented them properly, written an artist's statement, put together a submission package, sent that package to 70 galleries, only to have most of them ignore you, with perhaps one gallery saying you can have a show next year in May? (none). "What is your business plan?"

He went on to say that having talent is wonderful, however the difference between starving in the dark and material prosperity has less to do with talent, and much more to do with willingness to learn and apply basic business skills. All of the artists on Canyon Road, that I held in disdain, had learned something of great importance, of which I had remained willfully ignorant.

Show business is two words.

Graham
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  #19  
Old 03-08-2006, 07:08 AM
ilona ilona is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

I am coming up with this quote off the top of my head, so if it's not accurate forgive me..but I think it was Einstein who said "Genius is 1% inspiration and 99% perspiration"

I think like several other posters, it takes all three to make a successful artist / sculptor.

I have so many ideas in my head for sculptures that with the right time, money and training I could fill a museum.

But I can't weld, or blow glass (yet!) and am just learning to do ceramics. So, for now, I have to pacify my creative urges by making maquettes and assemblage pieces. They are fun and many people enjoy them, but they are not what I really long to make.

And Graham, I live very near SCAD in Savannah...unfortunately they don't have a sculpture degree available. But they teach business classes to all of their art students. The marketing aspect of making art is stressed there...which I think is great.

Last edited by ilona : 03-08-2006 at 07:10 AM.
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Old 03-08-2006, 07:13 AM
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Murdoch
..."Really? Show me your porfolio (at that time an envelope of random snapshots). How many gallery shows have you had? (none). How many times have you produced a coherent body of work, say 5-10 carvings, documented them properly, written an artist's statement, put together a submission package, sent that package to 70 galleries, only to have most of them ignore you, with perhaps one gallery saying you can have a show next year in May? (none). "What is your business plan?"
Graham
I am going to write that down and tape it up in my studio. Thanks for the motivation.
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  #21  
Old 03-08-2006, 10:40 AM
JamesW JamesW is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Graham you're so right.
Last year I took a subject entitled 'Professional Arts Practice'
It forced me to reflect on who is the market for my work - is there one?
What type/style of gallery suits my work/reaches my target audience?
etc
Sometimes business skills and creativity seem strange bed fellows but if you can find the right mix for you I've found that it keeps me focussed & saves wasting time energy or unnnecessary disappointment by barking up the wrong tree.
The days of dreaming that my work will somehow magically find its way into a contemporary art gallery is over... no-ones going to come knocking on my door... I have to get out there and lobby/promote and its just as much a part of my work as conceptualising & creating..
James
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  #22  
Old 03-21-2006, 12:18 PM
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JasonGillespie JasonGillespie is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

GWayne,
Your question seems to be almost too dogmatically stated,but if hypothetically we were able to divorce these characteristics from each other...I would have to say talent. My belief in the importance of hardwork and dedication aside, the ability to perceive what must be perceived to create truly great works of art (not to speak of the manual dexterity one must have to physically realize the work once perceived) is not born of only hard work and dedication.

The seed of art is within the soul..call it talent, vision, inspiration, gift, etc.... it is innate. That said, I think you can't remove the application of hardwork and dedication it takes to truly realize one's talent....because there are many "talented" people who have never done what is needed to bring their ability to fruition. At the same time, there are many who by hardwork and dedication alone create works that, though may never be great, are worthwhile and have value.
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Old 03-31-2006, 01:43 PM
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GWayne GWayne is offline
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

JasonGillespie,

Hi. Natural talent, hard work, and dedication aren't the only factors that will determine whether or not an artist is successful. I said in a previous post that painting, sculpting, and drawing are skills that can be learned, and anyone can cultivate "talent" if they work hard at developing it. There isn't a guaranteed formula for artistic success. Some individuals are born with a natural ability, while the rest of us have may have to work hard for many years to obtain it.

GWayne

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  #24  
Old 04-01-2006, 08:42 AM
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

[QUOTE.

That said, I think you can't remove the application of hardwork and dedication it takes to truly realize one's talent....because there are many "talented" people who have never done what is needed to bring their ability to fruition. At the same time, there are many who by hardwork and dedication alone create works that, though may never be great, are worthwhile and have value.[/quote]


Jason,well said,pretty much sumes it up.Man you write freeky excellent.I have to believe you will be writing books,of essays ,or something to go along with your sculpture.......
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  #25  
Old 04-02-2006, 10:25 AM
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Re: Natural talent vs. hard work and dedication

Talent wins...But if you dont have the passion to use the talent i dont think you will get anywhere..I had all the talent in baseball but hated the sport, coaches said i was wasting my natural talent not playing the game...
well i didnt have the passion ....i have always had passion for art..
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