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  #26  
Old 09-13-2005, 01:41 PM
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bluedogshuz bluedogshuz is offline
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Re: self-taught

I don't think we should run down OUR PEOPLE who are self taught, damn, its hard enough as it is. I think as this progresses there are probably more self taught then taught. The university is not exactly the guild system.. We don't have churches, government etc clamouring for sculpture. One of the most basic and enduring types of self expression goes unnoticed. It is a catch 22 because most sculptors are not making an acceptable living and to encourage people to spend countless $ to then be in a profession like this.. well you get my point?
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  #27  
Old 09-13-2005, 02:29 PM
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Talking Re: self-taught

Perhaps when this discussion is over we could get on with the proper way to skin a cat.
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  #28  
Old 09-13-2005, 04:25 PM
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Re: self-taught

B dog,I thinkyour right that we should support eachother ,and being self taught shows a drive to create,beats the heck out of being a couch potato.I believe the bottom line is passion and heart.Heck if I crap on toast and someone thinks it is genous ,so be it.Art is about self expression,motivating to creat at ones own will for the pleasure of satisfaction,and if a buck falls are way that is wonderful too.One of the few good decisions I made in my life was not to take a partial scholarship to get my masters,but to dive into the "real" world of being an artist.If I ever want to teach it might come back to bite,but my experience pales to anything I would have learned staying in school.I also had my sweetheart in mind who probally would not have been there when I returned three years later.This decision worked for my situation,I never would not encourage getting more training and studio time,but there is a point an artist has to let go of the system and become what ther inner soul directs.Self Taught or not is meeningless in the real world.Reality check says most of us will make are living other ways and continue to make art because that is what we are ,artist.Also ,I was wondering where the first cave men to do cave drawings got their degree,cave U of wee peir.
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  #29  
Old 09-14-2005, 01:46 AM
lewislazar lewislazar is offline
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Re: self-taught

Hey Jeff,

Why do I think that I don't need formal education in art? Well, first of all, a lot famous artists had no formal training (Gonzalez was a metalworker, Gauguin was a banker - just to name two out of many many more). Secondly, I seem to be doing extremely well for someone with no "formal" training in art. A lot better than most.
I do think that artists who finish art school have a leg up on those who don't (at least where I'm living). This is because they come out and already have established connections with the art scene and the galleries know where they're coming from. The first question that always arises before the portfolio even leaves the bag is "where did you study?". The art schools here tend to try to influence the student, to churn out carbon copies of their teachers. This is not a good thing. And the crap that's coming out of a lot of these places today?? That's art???? Just because it has a stamp of approval???
Art is a passion. You can be taught the techniques of sculpture or painting, but if you don't have it, you don't have it. Technique is also something that can be found in books. Believe it or not - science, is the same way. There are self taught scientists (very, very few) and to be successful it also has to be a passion. There is also a lot of crap which passes as science, done by well trained people coming out of respectable universities. But while science is something that you need training to understand, art, at least in theory, is not. And besides, art is more accessible to Jo Public. It is everywhere - the streets, people's homes, museums. Give a two year old a crayon and he starts "creating". It is something that is deep within us. I may be self taught, but I have years and years of observation, reading, exploring and talking to others - and I am my own artist (and a pretty damn good one at that!!!).
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  #30  
Old 09-14-2005, 01:59 AM
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Re: self-taught

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman
Hi, I can't believe that so many of you are self taught. All those basics, learning how to draw, how to see, how to do it realistically BEFORE doing non-obj pieces, if that is your intent. Learning from a PROFESSIONAL artist who has been taught by a professional artist before him. Learning to be self-critical of the work that you do, learning what art is all about, the journey of self discovery.
Art's not about copying the past, art is about finding your own voice, your own means of self expression and you can't do it properly without schooling. You are selling yourself short if you don't get proper training.
These are emotive comments that Ironman has posted. I'll try to analyse the issue raised.

Firstly this Sculpture Community is for all of us with interest in sculpting. There is no qualification requirement. And this should be so.

I am from the profession of engineering for which people entering it have to be suitably qualified both in education and in practice. This is because the works of engineers involve public safety as well as mathematical/analytical techniques.

Public safety is very rarely the issue for artists. 3D art involves some techniques, but a unversity degree is not the only avenue for acquiring them.

I think many of us who call ourselves self-taught in sculptures have also attended some training at workshop classes or informally by observing. These training may be on clay modeling, molding and casting, on welding frabication, on ceramic clay modeling and firing, etc.

Like many activities in life, whether we have degree or not, we find it beneficial to continue to pursue life long learning. The question is whether we have the passion for sculpting.

It is good to have a degree in fine art. I would love to have it, but not when I am already 62 when I started on sculptures. To judge whether I have attained professional standard, one does not check if I have a degree BFA. One should look at my artworks I produce.
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  #31  
Old 09-14-2005, 09:17 AM
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Re: self-taught

Just a couple more thoughts... Someone mentioned learning from students. This is very important in Art because student and teacher can be interchangable not all professions can boast that. If I had a degree (I do have an AA and BS) I would promote my degree and hold myself up as a Master and may be inclined not to cut anyone any slack. Every profession organically tries to creat barriers to entry in order to conduct commerce. This is very prounounced in the late 20th century with a bend towards intellectualism and exclusivity driven by collectors. Artist can also rcognize the accomplishments and assist other Artist in becoming successful.. few professions have such an opportunity to help on another.

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  #32  
Old 09-15-2005, 08:15 AM
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Re: self-taught

Hi, I too think that a BFA/MFA are overrated and you're right Rod, there is a TON of crap out there by people with degrees, and when it needs "vast quantities of verbiage", I flee. That's because, to me, we're making VISUAL ART which I think should be seen and felt rather than read about.
Look, I don't have a degree either, but I have many, many years of life drawing, painting and sculpture classes under my belt and was also an apprentise to another sculptor. I don't consider myself to be self taught.
I didn't think folk art was part of this discussion. Of course a lot folk art is great stuff, but I think the intent is different. Folk artists are just making stuff (this is not a putdown), expressing themselves the best way they know how and not trying to sell themselves as "fine art" artists, whatever that is. Sometimes I wish that I could do that kind of work, but once you've had some art training you can't go back without looking like an insincere impostor.
Iron ant, That bit about today's technology where anyone with money can put an idea on a CD, send it to a foundry and presto, instant artist. I'm not sure if that's much different than having apprentises weld or carve your piece for you. I think that technology is gonna eventually change the whole ball game, and rightly so, as we make art in the times that we live in and with the available technology that we can afford.
Your 4 year old daughter is a great artist and you can tell her that from me! Almost all kids do fantastic stuff, they're all creative and express themselves in an uninhibited and open way until they're around 10-12 yrs. old.
I was exhibiting some sculptures at a gallery once, they all had somewhat esoteric titles to them when some kid came along and called one piece "french fries". Well, he was right, but MY training and adult inhibitions blocked me from seeing that possibility or coming up with so simple a title. I wish, like Picasso did, that I could go back to that naive way of thinking and creating. It's seeing the world in a fresh, new and wonderful way, every day. Kids are great and teaching them art is a fantastic way to learn art, from THEM!
Gotta go,
Have a nice day,
Jeff
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  #33  
Old 09-15-2005, 08:50 AM
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Re: self-taught

Jeff,I understand what you are try to say,but I brought up folk art because it is a form of art that is self taught.I though you were barking about self taught artist,and folk art,at least down south,is represented by many fine art galleries.Fay Gold Gallery in Atlanta,national caliber,used to have a large inventory of folk art,and I believe the musuem has a whole section devoted to it.I believe folk artist are just as important as any other artist,although it is not my taste.
I was interested to see how you felt about todays technology.You bitched about self taught artist,but todays technology is going to put a lot of artist out of the picture.Architecs,designers and galleries will design there own things and we will become somewhat obsolete.If the dude down the road is boared,has deep pockets and decides he wants to make sculpture,I will just email this design to the shop with the digital machines,and bingo art that has never had ther hand touch the surface?How can you compare that to an apprendice.When I worked for Caroline MOntague for two years we did a lot of her work,but her design,finishing,and hands on approach was much different from a machine.Hey technology is great,but it is going to water down the pool of artist that create out of passioand will to create for self satisfaction.It blows my mind to think someone can have stone pieces carved,but never touch the surface.When I studied marble carving in Italy,the joy was working the stone,mind and body,pretty physical.I also realized I can not work negative very well,but I always will love working with stone.I guess I am old fasion in the artist sence,but maybe this site will change my views,it has before.off to the hot house...peace...IA
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  #34  
Old 09-15-2005, 07:39 PM
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Re: self-taught

Hi Iron Ant, yeah, well I'm certainly not plugged into this techno stuff, but I do think it's the future whether we like it or not.
This earth and humanity that we live on and with is going to go forward (depending on your point of view) and just as I wouldn't give up electric lights for candles or my MIG welder for a forge, I'm not going to put down a method of creating that may be the future of art.
I think that there are a lot of creative kids today (everyone is creative in one way or another) who are totally immersed in the world of computers and 35 yrs ago they might have majored in art.
I think that the computer will open up creative opportunities that we can't even begin to think about. It's beyond our comprehension.
I understand your feelings about this, that any shmuck with a computer can send an image to a machine that will do the work for him but just think, we don't work as hard as our forebearers did so why should we expect people in the future to work as hard as us.
In comparison to the auto industry we're probably still in the model T era as far as computers go.
This is another subject altogether, so getting back to art and schooling, I think you're selling yourself short by not getting a good grounding in life drawing, realistic sculpture, art theory, etc.
You mentioned that "being self taught shows a drive to create" and I would say that getting some training shows a seriousness of purpose and a desire to (as they say in those Army ads) be all that you can be.
I wouldn't be doing this if ART wasn't my whole life and I'm certainly not in it for the money but I take it seriously when I go into my studio to play, create and work which all seem to melt together and I try to do that 7 days a week.
have a nice day,
Jeff
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  #35  
Old 09-15-2005, 08:53 PM
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Re: self-taught

Ironman,I think you miss understand my point.I am not putting technology down,I just feel that artist will become computer geeks instead of studio geeks,and will miss the enjoyment of touching,feeling,manipulating materials because it will be done on the computer.Now an artist as yourself that has experience first ,then turns towards technology is cool because you may at least understand the material you are using.The thought of someone having a carving done,but has never labored under a chisel first or wet sanded a stone through the grits is foriegn to me.Also,I might be short,but selling my self short,you really do not know me because I have been to art school in two different countrys{BFA},apprendiced with a master sculptor,and have enjoyed traveling and showing my work on a national level for twenty years,"hitting" musuems ,artist ,and galleries on the way.Now as we no ,I am not in it for the money either,but I do enjoy a sale or commision along the way.It is funny you mentioned trading mig for forge,because I bought a forge last year,and I have self taught myself to go back in time.A anvil,hammer,forge,swageblock,tongs,and I love the hard work ,and in the long run I hope it makes me a more well rounded artist to utilize my more modern equipment.I will admit though you are right technology will change the way we produce art,but I am gratefull my professor taught us the basics,buzz box and hand file,and yes I love my mig and right angle grinder too.What is funny we are probally more alike then are view points leed us to believe.Keep it hot bro..............IA p.s. darn if I just would have learned to spell,runs in the family my son brought home a paper that asked what he wanted to be in life"a ples",to my yankee friends thats police.
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  #36  
Old 09-15-2005, 09:05 PM
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Re: self-taught

Hi Merlion, You stated that "being self taught gives one the freedom to explore, to strike out". Au contraire, Monsieur, being trained gives you the background to do that.
Having that knowledge and understanding that one only gets from training/schooling, etc. is what gives you the freedom to explore.
I don't think that you can explore unless you have some knowledge of WHAT you're exploring.
Yes, I know, folk artists, I love their work too, but I think it has it's limitations and I wouldn't compare them to Michelangelo, Rodin, Brancusi or David Smith, would you?
That's not to say that one genre is better than another but I've yet to see any folk art that I would compare favorably to the work of those four sculptors.
Have a nice day,
Jeff
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  #37  
Old 09-15-2005, 09:22 PM
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Re: self-taught

Well Iron Ant, You've got a daughter who is now (because I said so) a great artist and a son who'll be a "plesman" (love it!). My kids are grownups now but I can remember and will always cherish those early years with them. Kids are great and I'm sure you're a loving and wonderful father to them.
Yeah, I know, these artists of the future will be computer geeks and will never have to sweat in a hot dirty studio like we do. They'll be out driving around in their B'mer convertible picking up chicks while some machine makes their sculpture for them.
I think you're just jealous!
We probably do have more in common than these posts lead us to believe and I think that may be true for a lot of us on this web site.
Have a great day,
Jeff
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  #38  
Old 09-15-2005, 09:32 PM
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Re: self-taught

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman
... getting back to art and schooling, I think you're selling yourself short by not getting a good grounding in life drawing, realistic sculpture, art theory, etc. ...
Jeff
Jeff, I couldn't agree more...

I struggled with life drawing on and off for years, working in classes and with other artists who were mostly 2d artists, finding shapes and shadings which carried a somewhat realistic image....at times my perceived lack of ability depressed me, but I forced myself to join scheduled sessions and continue.
Sketching with fellow artists and setting the sessions as appointments kept me at it and over the intervening years, I've found those struggles an invaluable tool for seeing, a tool I use often.

have a pleasant evening
rod
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  #39  
Old 09-15-2005, 09:48 PM
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Re: self-taught

Hi Bluedogshuz, I'm not trying to run down the people who are self taught but I feel very strongly (as I'm sure you can tell) that without a background of training/schooling, the self taught are selling themselves short and limiting their capabilities for creative expression.
My girlfriend teaches painting, privately(she has a teriffic background). She had one student who took 4 (that's right 4) classes and decided she was an artist, opened her own co-op gallery and considered herself a professional artist.
As you can well imagine, her paintings sucked, BIG TIME, and the worst part about this is that she considered herself to be a competent professional artist. She had absolutely no idea how bad her paintings were and that's because she essentially was self taught.
This kind of shit drives me up a wall, and as my friends always say, "hey Jeff, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel."
I think that's because I'm a New Yorker, and you know, we're known for our blunt straight forwardness, at least I am.
Have a great day,
Jeff
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  #40  
Old 09-15-2005, 09:54 PM
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Re: self-taught

YES, Rod, THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT I'M GETTING AT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Have a pleasant evening, yourself, and thank you!
Jeff
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  #41  
Old 09-16-2005, 03:37 AM
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Re: self-taught

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman
I understand your feelings about this, that any shmuck with a computer can send an image to a machine that will do the work for him but just think, we don't work as hard as our forebearers did so why should we expect people in the future to work as hard as us.
Jeff
I suppose years ago, painters would in the same way felt unhappy about the popularity and convenience of photography, and asked if this should be considered as art.
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  #42  
Old 09-16-2005, 05:51 AM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: self-taught

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman
Hi, I can't believe that so many of you are self taught. All those basics, learning how to draw, how to see, how to do it realistically BEFORE doing non-obj pieces, if that is your intent. Learning from a PROFESSIONAL artist who has been taught by a professional artist before him. Learning to be self-critical of the work that you do, learning what art is all about, the journey of self discovery.
Art's not about copying the past, art is about finding your own voice, your own means of self expression and you can't do it properly without schooling. You are selling yourself short if you don't get proper training.

Jeff, if there's anything I learned in college, it's that I was right all along in thinking that anything they could teach me, I could teach myself. The most important thing I learned in school was how to learn. With all the accumulated knowledge of mankind at one's disposal (i.e., libraries, the internet, various other sources), the motivated learner can teach himself literally anything, provided he's motivated to learn. I have taught myself inumerable things, from art skills to foreign languages to golf and I have always been an advocate of self-teaching. It's not for everyone (you have to be motivated to learn and you have to learn the skills of learning), but it does work. For some, though, one-on-one or classroom instruction is the way to go. Everyone is not the same.

Gary
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  #43  
Old 09-16-2005, 08:33 AM
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Ironman,
I agree with much of what you are saying. Without the limited education I recieved I wouldn't have the foundation for what I do. I wish I could afford to go back to school to see what the youngin's are doing. Self taught or not I will continue to create because that is what I enjoy, If people want to lay out cash all the better. I'm not quiting my day job (restoring old houses) because people will pay far more for that then my sculpture, however, I bring to the table my senses as an artist when I work my "day job". As far as technology goes there are limitations. It's is still easier to wedge a block then to make all those cuts with a saw. And, believe it or not there are a lot of people that want to see the artist "fingerprint" on the work. We do cast that spell you know?
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  #44  
Old 09-16-2005, 09:39 AM
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Re: self-taught

Hi, Aside from your creativity and intelligence which are innate abilities that you either have or don't, the single most important thing is a PASSION for what you're doing.
You can learn to open up your creative side, you can even raise your IQ to a certain extent and you can get training/schooling but like a few of you said previously and I'm sure most would agree (because I think we all have it), PASSION for what you're doing is VERY important.
I have the upmost respect for artists who are sincere, passionate and hardworking, regardless of their abilities. I'd take a person with those traits any day over a diletante with skill, talent and an MFA.
I'm pretty much a self learner myself, taught myself to weld and then took classes with skilled welders, where I learned a lot more.
Designed and built my own house with no prior construction or architectual experience.
It turned out great, people love it and it's very user friendly, all that in spite of my lack of training.
As an artist, the single most important classes that I took were LIFE DRAWING. Not to become a great draftsman, which I'm not, but to learn HOW TO SEE. This skill is invaluable, whether you're doing realistic or non-obj work.
If you don't know how to see as an artist sees, you don't know what you're NOT seeing. I don't know if that makes any sense but it's a skill that comes only from life drawing and I don't think that you can develop it on your own.
My life drawing teacher would just walk around the room, come up to your easel, look at the model, then at your drawing, give some little critique that ALWAYS opened another door to the insight of learning how to see.
Positive and negative space, highlight and shadow, shapes, forms and their relationship to one another, weighted line, contour, etc. are just some of the skills you learn from life drawing.
I use those skills every day of my life.
Merlion, Yeah, you're probably right to a certain extent about that painter/photographer thing, but I'll bet that many painters recognized the potential of photography to help them in their painting.
Bronze casting, oil paint in tubes (mid 1870's) and welding as opposed to blacksmithing are just a few of the technological advances that we all use and take for granted as legitimate tools for art making. So, I think that the computer will become just that (it already is), another tool in our inventory.
Computer technology today is still in it's infancy and we have NO IDEA where it will take us. Just think, years ago when the first computers were developed, it was thought that the WHOLE WORLD would only have a need for SIX of them.
Well, today, I'm sitting here typing this on a computer that's probably more powerful (not to mention, smaller) than all six of those early computers put together and there's one of these contraptions on MILLIONS of desks throughtout the world.
What a world we live in!
Have a great day,
Jeff
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  #45  
Old 09-17-2005, 06:38 AM
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Re: self-taught

Jeff, man, easy on the caffeine!

Quote:
I really RESENT some of the SHIT that I see out there, which by the way has usually been done by UNtrained so called "artists".
I guess that's all a matter of opinion, because I've seen a lot of shit out there by persons who are so called "trained artists"

To each his/her own, eh?
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  #46  
Old 09-17-2005, 09:27 AM
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Re: self-taught

Jeff,thanks for the props on the kidds,and yes I love my chaps and spend heeps of time with them,even when I should probally be at the studio at times.Dude I have been married for twentyfive years,Jealous over a freekinfBMW and chicks,not,But chaufere to my 100,000 squarefoot studio in a Bently,now where talking.Art is in the "eye of the beholder",but there is a lot of "week" art out there,but I believe there is more quality,just look at what a lot of artist are doing on this site,overall I feel very impressive in are own rights.My work is not totally abstract, and I have found the hard core "shape and formers' don't like it,but women and men that are not so macho like my whimsical side and craftsmenship.I say we switch gears and lets play with this one pal.Craftmenship and Art?Craftmenship is as important to the work as work itself.Once you start doing clean work it is hard to go back.let her rip,and jeff please drink a glass of warm milk,or cold beer,before you respond..... Arty ant gone bad p.s. God willing I will be hit by lightning or have my web page done for you guys to rip soon.............
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  #47  
Old 09-17-2005, 10:15 AM
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Re: self-taught

Hi Julianna, Yeah, I agree, and have already been taken to task for that line.
Some of the stuff you see is just so much esoteric bullshit and some of it looks like stuff you did in art school years ago and did it better, and you find people oohing and aahing (whatever that is?) over it. Then you have the stuff that is so God awful, you can barely even look at it and that's because they have no training, and consequently haven't developed the taste or education to know the work is bad. Most of those people are diletantes anyway, so hopefully they'll find their NEXT passion and stop polluting my vision.
This isn't meant as a putdown to the untrained artists on this sight or elsewhere, but a plea to all the sincere, passionate people out there to LEARN.
Don't you want to be a better artist than you are?
I mean, I'm no great shakes as an artist, and I'm sure I've got a lot to learn and I'm learning every day, but at least I've got a good foundation behind me. I thank God, more and more for the teachers that I had and their insistence on learning to draw from the model, sculpt from the model, learn how to see as an artist sees.
What are you untrained people afraid of, it's ONLY an art class, they're not injecting you with some experimental drug or something.
Are you afraid you'll lose your individuality, your unique vision, that they'll steal your artistic identity, and turn you into a carbon copy of THEMSELVES?
Well, If you're not strong, they might, but if they're good teachers, they'll not try to change your vision but broaden your horizons and give you the foundation to do better work.
Isn't that what we all want? To do better work than we're doing now, I know I do.
I've done my share of crap, but fortunately, I've come to my senses most of the time and thrown those pieces in the scrap heap, and the few that have escaped my critical eye and made their way into a gallery, to be seen by the general public are to be quite frank, an embarrassment to me. I've taken those pieces out of the galleries when I finally realized how bad they were.
I think that if you don't pay as much critical attention as you should, and let ego get in the way, that kind of stuff happens.
The two things that I try to keep out of my studio are EGO and the DOLLAR sign.
In other words, I try to stay very critical of my work as it progresses, sometimes I'll sit for hours and just look at the work from different angles, deciding with my critical eye where changes, if any, need to be made. That, hopefully keeps the ego, which is the catalyst for making crap, out of any decision making.
I also never, ever, allow the money part of this business into the studio. I never think to myself, "well, if I make it this way, or make such and such, I can sell 10 of them", I work for myself only, my expression, my unique point of view. If you allow those money making thoughts to enter your studio, pretty soon you'll be doing someone elses sculpture instead of your own.
That's the beauty of a day job, it allows you to follow your own interests, develop your unique vision, without the pressures of making money from your art.
Not that money's a bad thing, it is nice to sell, and although it's not my motivation for making art, I do want to make more money from it. Having my work in a gallery, sharing my vision, stroking my ego, is nice but sales help put more steel plate and better tools and equipment in my studio so that I can make more stuff.
My kids, ha, ha, are going to have some mess to deal with when I'm gone!
Well, that's all for now, I look forward, as always, to the responses I get from these posts. I know it's not "bash Jeff" week at the sculpture community (I checked the schedule, ha,ha) and if I didn't think you were all as sincere and well meaning in your responses as I am, I'd come get you, and kick your ass!
I wish you all well and have a great day in your studio,
We are such lucky people to have art as our passion,
Jeff
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  #48  
Old 09-17-2005, 10:54 AM
ironman ironman is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Silver City, New Mexico
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Re: self-taught

Hi Iron Ant, you're a funny man! Warm milk? Yuck!
As Julianna said, go easy on the caffeine.
Well, I'm a caffeine junky, Im drinking my 8th cup so far this morning and it's hopeless.
I'm a native New Yorker and a caffeine freak. What a combination!
But, I am well meaning and sincere and hope none of you have taken my posts too personally. Believe it or not, I do screen what I say, but as I've said previously, my friends always say, "hey Jeff, why don't you tell us how you really feel?", and another friend used to tell me, "I suffer fools, badly".
Enough of that for now.
But I do like the chauffered Bentley and the 100,000 sq. ft. studio idea.
Craftsmanship, eh?
Well, you can't get very far in this business if your pieces are falling apart, now can you? Unless you're Yves Tanguay and made that sculpture that self destructs, but I think it malfunctioned and didn't self destruct as it was supposed to, so yeah, ironically, it wasn't well made.
I struggle with my craftsmanship constantly, even though I designed and built my own house and as a sculptor am constantly working with my hands, I've never felt that I was very good with my hands (not that, that's something else altogether). My father couldn't drive a nail in straight and my grandfather didn't know which end of the hammer to hold, fortunately I haven't inherited All of their genes, but I have inherited some.
I'm not entirely convinced that the craftsmanship is as important as the expression, vision, etc.
I'd rather look at poorly made work that talks to me emotionally, has feeling, expression, vision and guts to it, than a slickly done superbly crafted work that has none of the above.
I've gotta go, been on this site too long this morning, and the coffees kicking in if you know what I mean.
Have a great day,
Jeff
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  #49  
Old 09-24-2005, 04:08 PM
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realsculpt realsculpt is offline
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Location: USA
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Re: self-taught

self taught, and though i have been a teacher, i think real work experience is much better. I have taken some sculpting classes, and read the books, and most of them dont teach the real methods used in making sculptures, moldmakeing, ect. Most schools dont even teach the difference of the clays, or how to use tools. I am a big fan of books, apprenticeships (for pay, no freebie crap) and trial and error. But, schools do have better facilites than most of us and the space and equiptment is usually worth the tuition.


Seth
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  #50  
Old 09-25-2005, 10:43 AM
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circusguy circusguy is offline
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Re: self-taught

I'm self taught: ran screaming from Boston University after one semester, 20 years ago. I don't know what I'm missing, I'll admit that.
I know a man who now gives painting lessons to his former painting teacher. I know a woman who spent four years as a receptionist at an art college, and considers that "immersion" enough. She shows and sells. (say that one ten times fast.) I met a man who took a job teaching fine art at a university because he had given up on creating sculpture. Glad not to have taken his classes. Lastly, I know a gifted realist painter who is grateful she found no inspiring painting teachers at her university. She studied printmaking instead, and now is grateful that she doesn't need to "shake off" influence.
I would love to have the time and resources to get an art education, or even better, a Matrix-style education program infusion. When I go to see art, though, I'm not usually looking at how educated the artist is. I don't think you can create art improperly. I'm with you on this: it's all about the passion.
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