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  #1  
Old 11-05-2005, 04:11 PM
Jamo Jamo is offline
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Casting Editions

I was wondering what are some of the accepted practices when it comes to casting an edition of a particular sculpture. Say if you were going to cast a run of 10 pieces in bronze but also wanted to cast in a different medium. Is it fine to have two seperate editions in different mediums?
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  #2  
Old 11-05-2005, 10:56 PM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

I would think it's okay, though doing so may devalue both editions and the price of each piece.

Gary
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  #3  
Old 11-06-2005, 01:14 PM
anne (bxl) anne (bxl) is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryR52
I would think it's okay, though doing so may devalue both editions and the price of each piece.

Gary
I do not agree, gary. we have had previous thread(s) about this subject.
I remind you that for experts only editions of 8 numered pieces maximum, (same size, same medium) make those pieces "unique" and valuable as so. More pieces of a similar edition would make all of them "original" if signed by the artist and "series" if not. much less valuable.
Major galleries, collectors and auctioners are very carefull about those rules, so be conscious of them as you get your decision.
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  #4  
Old 11-06-2005, 02:23 PM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

Anne, I've heard both 8 and 10. It may differ, depending upon which side of the Atlantic you're on. I think the rules here in the U.S. may be more lax. I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong on this.

I think what Jamo wants to know, though, is whether making a second edition in another medium is okay and whether it affects anything. I think he tossed out the figure of 10 just as an example. I agree, though, that limiting an edition to 8 would certainly make it more valuable than an edition of 10. It is scarcity that increases the value.

Gary
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  #5  
Old 11-06-2005, 10:30 PM
Ameenah Ameenah is offline
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Question Re: Casting Editions

So when you have numered pieces do you need some type of letter of authentisity, and is there some type of registry you would have to join? How do you number your work? Do you brand it some way during the wax process? and how much dose your work depreciate with every copy
Ameenah
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  #6  
Old 11-07-2005, 02:00 AM
Ameenah Ameenah is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

When you have a commission how do you set your price if it's only one casting? Do you price diff. if the person is well known?
Ameenah
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  #7  
Old 11-07-2005, 06:02 AM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

Hi, Ameenah. First, let's start with your last question in your first post. The price of each piece doesn't depreciate with each piece sold from an edition - it increases. The reason for this is that scarcity drives the price up; i.e., the fewer copies left to sell, the more those copies are worth, so that the last one sold has more value than the first.

If you're doing an edition from a re-usable mold, you'll have to inscribe the edition number on each casting, during the chasing and finishing process. Obviously, inscribing it in the wax on the initial piece would mark every copy in the edition with the same identical number.

As for a letter of authenticity or any registration, while it can't hurt, it isn't necessary, at least here in America, anyway. If I'm wrong on this, I'm sure someone will correct me.

In the case of a commissioned work, normally, you're talking about a one-off piece, not an edition. By definition, a commissioned piece is usually unique, made only for the patron who commissioned it. However, sculptors do make an "artist's proof," sometimes, which is usually made to check everything and make sure all is as it should be before the final casting is made. Sometimes, several artist's proofs are made. In a case such as this, I'm not sure if they are sold to the patron or not. Anne, what's the rule on this in Europe?

Gary
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  #8  
Old 11-07-2005, 09:42 AM
Jamo Jamo is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

Basically I am in this situation. I have a maquette of a lifesize monument that is well known in the city I live in. I want to make an edition of 8-10 in bronze of the maquette. However I also want to get the full monetary benefit of the piece. If I were to have an open ended or larger edition run in resin I was thinking that this might go contrary to the more expensive and higher price point bronze edition. Not everyone is willing to pay 3000 for a bronze sculpure. Resin could make it more widely apealing. My main concern was a cast done in the same dimensions but different material than the brozne edition. To answer Ameenah's question- Signatures and edition numbers with bronze pieces are done after the wax copy is pulled from the mold. The
signature can be done before hand in the clay but I have often seen it done
fresh into the wax. Another different way I have seen signatures done to maintain consistancy is through digital means. You can sign your signature onto a piece of paper scan it into a computer resize it to whatever you want have a computer use a laser to cut it into piece of plexiglass in reverse and use the plexiglass as a mold to cast wax signatures to be attached to wax sculptures at the foundry.
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  #9  
Old 11-07-2005, 10:43 AM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

You can charge more per piece in a limited edition, but how much you make in total will depend upon whether you sell out the edition or not. On the other hand, you'll make less per copy with an open-ended edition, but, if it becomes very popular, it can sell over and over again for years. This scenario isn't very likely, though, unless you're a "big name." For everyone else, the best way to go is probably with a limited edition. That way, you're more likely to sell the whole edition and recoup all your costs, plus make a profit.

A "cold cast," or resin edition will either sell well or not depending upon your intended audience of buyers. Serious collectors tend to like "real" bronzes over cold castings. If it's to be an open-ended edition, then cold casting makes better sense, as you will probably be selling over a longer period of time to people who have less money for art. If, on the other hand, you're doing a limited edition, using cold casting just devalues the whole edition and spoils the whole point in making it a limited edition. The point in making a limited edition is to increase the value of each piece, not only in the present, but in the future, as well. If you use materials that are, in serious collectors' minds, not "standard" materials, you've defeated that purpose, to an extent. That said, cold castings have nonetheless become more acceptable in recent years.

Yes, the signature can (and should be) added in the clay or wax, before casting. But, the edition numbering has to be added to each cast after it's made, otherwise, they'll all say the same thing, thus ruining the edition. This is simply because, in an edition, the edition number must be different on each casting, typically expressed as 1/8, 2/8, 3/8 and so on. If they all read, 1/8, then everyone who buys one will think he's getting the first of an edition of eight.

Gary
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  #10  
Old 11-08-2005, 09:35 AM
anne (bxl) anne (bxl) is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

Gary , I agree about most of your comments. Unless you are or you hope to become a "big name", editions of open-ended series are not really valuable in the future. Collectors, auctionners, museums and other professionals will only buy "unique" -editions of 8 maximum numered 1/8 2/8... plus 4 artistproofs numered I/IV II/IV... same size, same material-. This is worldwide practice, as top art market has no border.

An additional piece more than 10% bigger or smaller is considered as a new edition to be numered.

But you may choose to cast limited series (from 9) or even open-ended series in any material : it is another carrier choice, more pieces at cheaper prices. As you sign them piece by piece they still are "original" and might be considered by art professionnals. As the signature is part of the mold, they are just "copies" with no resale value.

I sign the wax just before casting, the founder consider my signature as an approval : "good to be cast". and I numered them after the casting, and only when I am happy with the quality of the cast.

Further devellopments of a commisionned piece : all depends of the contract you negociate, but whatever is the contract the "intellectual rights" stay yours, the commissioner cannot decide of a modification of the piece and you may contest the demageable use of it as your image is concerned.
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  #11  
Old 11-08-2005, 10:56 AM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

Thanks for supplying the additional detail, Anne. I think we've all learned something from this thread, thanks, in no small part, to your contribution.

Gary
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  #12  
Old 11-12-2005, 12:08 AM
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HappySculpting HappySculpting is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

This thread has been a real help to me in understanding the industry. Thanks Anne and Gary and everyone who contributed.

I just wanted to make sure that understand something that you said, Anne, regarding the signature.

Are you saying that a piece is more valuable to art professionals and they will attribute more value to each casting that is individually signed rather than having the same exact signature for each piece?

I usually like to sculpt and carve my name into the original. But whatever is considered by the elite to be more valuable is what I certainly want to do.

Thanks,

Tamara
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  #13  
Old 11-13-2005, 08:57 AM
anne (bxl) anne (bxl) is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

Quote:
Originally Posted by HappySculpting
Are you saying that a piece is more valuable to art professionals and they will attribute more value to each casting that is individually signed rather than having the same exact signature for each piece?

I usually like to sculpt and carve my name into the original.
"original" is a piece that has been signed and numered individually (no max I guess, but I have never seen more than 250)
"unique" is a piece that has been signed and numered individually (max 8 pieces...)
final number of pieces has to be decide in advance and no change may occur in the future.

any others possibilities are series and so, are not considered as pieces of art anymore. In that case you may apply industrial practices.

As I said, individual choice is a choice carrier.
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  #14  
Old 11-13-2005, 06:35 PM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

Are these assumptions of mine correct with regard to bronze sculpture castings? I suppose the signature and the numbering would be engraved, and would be done before patina. And if the artist cannot be at the foundry after the castings are done, I suppose the signature engraving would not be by the artist in person, but by an art craftmen at the foundry.
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  #15  
Old 11-13-2005, 09:18 PM
Ameenah Ameenah is offline
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Question Re: Casting Editions

[I]Hi, Ameenah. First, let's start with your last question in your first post. The price of each piece doesn't depreciate with each piece sold from an edition - it increases. The reason for this is that scarcity drives the price up; i.e., the fewer copies left to sell, the more those copies are worth, so that the last one sold has more value than the first.[/i]

Gary, would it be bad if a buyer finds out that the sculpture they have is being sold at a different price? The foundry owner/artist that I deal with thinks it would be bad business. But if this is standard industry practice, I'll follow suit.
Ameenah

Last edited by Ameenah : 11-13-2005 at 09:24 PM.
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  #16  
Old 11-14-2005, 07:14 AM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

I'd hate to steer you in the wrong direction, Ameenah. My information comes from Tuck Langland, who is a working sculptor of some note, as well as an author and art professor. Here are my notes, taken from his book, "From Clay to Bronze:"

"It is common practice to raise the price of each casting in an edition as the edition sells. The theory is that, as the edition sells, the remaining casts become rarer and, thus, more valuable because availability is being diminished. Itís pure supply and demand. For smaller editions, usually the first two or three casts remain at the same price and subsequent casts rise in price by about 10% each. This encourages buying early. For larger editions, the price usually increases in plateaus, so that casts one through ten are one price, eleven through twenty are higher, and so on. Another common practice is to offer what is called a pre-casting price. This is done by taking a photo of the plasticine original and publishing it, either through a gallery, an art magazine or on the internet, offering casts for a reduced price, usually between 10% to 25% less, in order to encourage sales. The proceeds from these pre-casting sales are then used to fund the costs of casting. This brings in money up front and gives buyers a bargain."

I hope this helps.

Gary
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  #17  
Old 12-02-2005, 09:28 PM
the2lees the2lees is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

I wonder if I can revive this thread. After just having told the foundry to cast an edition of 20 for my first ever bronze work, I read this post and am now alarmed to find out the edition of 8/4 A.P. is that desired by collectors, auctions, and museums as "high art," which is the market I'm aiming at. I'm thinking of feverishly calling the foundry Monday morning in hopes that the piece hasn't been cast yet. How much higher would a piece in an edition of 8 be priced vs. an edition of 20? Say one has a $4000 piece in a run of 20; how would pricing change for just 8?

However, I'm wondering how this idea jibes with what many world-renowned sculptors have done, like Frederick Hart who had editions over 60, Aurora Canero who has the same pieces in galleries worldwide, and others like Paige Bradley and Richard MadDonald with editions routinely over 100. What gives?

Candice

Last edited by the2lees : 12-03-2005 at 07:27 AM. Reason: Thought of another question
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  #18  
Old 12-03-2005, 07:49 AM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: Casting Editions

As I believe one of us mentioned above, Candice, the rule of thumb is that if you're a well known artist you can probably create larger editions, as the demand for your work is there, even at that "high art" level. If, on the other hand, you're just getting started and don't have much of a track record, making larger editions is unwise because they will probably be harder to sell and, as you were told, they won't be taken as a serious "high art" investment by collectors. So, the gist of it is that larger editions should come later in your career and smaller editions are what you should begin with. I'd call the foundry and change the quantity.

Gary
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Old 01-17-2007, 08:54 PM
miherman miherman is offline
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Cool Re: Casting Editions

Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryR52
I'd hate to steer you in the wrong direction, Ameenah. My information comes from Tuck Langland, who is a working sculptor of some note, as well as an author and art professor. Here are my notes, taken from his book, "From Clay to Bronze:"

"It is common practice to raise the price of each casting in an edition as the edition sells. The theory is that, as the edition sells, the remaining casts become rarer and, thus, more valuable because availability is being diminished. Itís pure supply and demand. For smaller editions, usually the first two or three casts remain at the same price and subsequent casts rise in price by about 10% each. This encourages buying early. For larger editions, the price usually increases in plateaus, so that casts one through ten are one price, eleven through twenty are higher, and so on. Another common practice is to offer what is called a pre-casting price. This is done by taking a photo of the plasticine original and publishing it, either through a gallery, an art magazine or on the internet, offering casts for a reduced price, usually between 10% to 25% less, in order to encourage sales. The proceeds from these pre-casting sales are then used to fund the costs of casting. This brings in money up front and gives buyers a bargain."

I hope this helps.

Gary
I am new to this forum, and although not a sculpturist - I am a painter. I love sculpture and after selling some of my own pieces, decided to buy a sculpture with the proceeds. I recently purchased a bronze piece (Aurora Canero) and it was not signed although I was told by the dealer that it was 11 out of an edition of 25. Do I need to have documents to prove this?
I'm worried that maybe the piece is not authentic - although this gallery has a good reputation.
miherman
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