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  #1  
Old 12-20-2009, 11:45 AM
outsider outsider is offline
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.......

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Last edited by outsider : 12-20-2009 at 11:46 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-20-2009, 11:58 AM
ironman ironman is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

where in this thread is there any mention of anything to do with "sculpture news and events".
Primary reason why I hardly participate on this site any more, too much BS like this.
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  #3  
Old 12-20-2009, 12:08 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Oh, Jeff...its only normal that folks rant about less important matters during their down-time. The brain doesnt need rest...like the body. So the trifles that impact the conditions of masses get too much attention. But now and then we put the brain to work here too and address realities and vitalities...so you pick and choose. Wait for the good stuff or have fun with the silly stuff. Big damned deal.
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  #4  
Old 12-20-2009, 12:49 PM
ironman ironman is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

I'm actually doing better than I thought I would this year, and no I don't depend on my sculpture sales entirely. I certainly understand where you're coming from but my point being, this is old news, we all know it and I guess if you've a need to rant, you did and certainly have a right to.
If I was you, i'd concentrate on sales, deplete that inventory as best you can.
Have a great day,
Jeff
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  #5  
Old 12-20-2009, 01:06 PM
CroftonGraphics CroftonGraphics is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

I think the problem is UK as a prime example is when governments try to 'fix' the economy it makes matters worse, ie knee jerk reactions Quantative easing, making more money. Inflation will follow not touted deflation.

You cannot cure a hangover, you need to just ride it out.
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  #6  
Old 12-20-2009, 01:46 PM
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Right...09 was pretty much the same as 08 for me (though it started slow). So regarding the business of eating and paying for stuff...another no brainer. The wife counts the beans and makes sure I dont piss away the fortune. The kids will be in braces soon and eventually college...so this does translate to the need to ridding myself of tons and tons of artifacts. It will happen though, as it always has, because compared to the considerings of matter, form and pure creative process, figuring out how to "earn" money is a piece of cake (despite the television telling you otherwise). Its always there for the taking...and what THEY call hard work is nothing. Real work is for important stuff - like for imagining yet another and another even better way of addressing verticality.
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  #7  
Old 12-20-2009, 03:46 PM
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by outsider View Post
bet the wifee makes all the money
Nope, but shes a partner and does handle tons of tasks that an old artfart like me just plain ol sucks-at (promotion, clientele, scheduling, deadlines, talking on the phone, and generally convincing folks that I'm a worthy investment). She gave up her thriving art gallery many years ago in favor of raising our children (a FAR more fulfilling venture). But she does COUNT the money (I dont care about money)...and she is the knuckles too...makes damn sure I get paid when I'm supposed to. I am fortunate to be able to advantage her completely complimentary set of skills to prosper amongst the ants and their ever fluctuating economy.
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  #8  
Old 12-20-2009, 04:00 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

I get ten bucks a pound, baby...thats all I know. The more my back aches the better the "economy". And I always make WAY more than I could ever sell. Like I said...I dont care about money, or economy, or fatcats or politicians or any of that nonsense. But everytime I go the that magic money machine down the block...cash comes out. Wife handles the IRS. I've never even SEEN any of that goddamned paperwork.
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  #9  
Old 12-20-2009, 04:38 PM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Look, as an artist, NOBODY can do what we do like we do it. It is part of the definition of our role. So therefore, if they want what you got, they can ONLY get it from YOU. No competition, anywhere. So it is nature of your business day to do what it takes to cross paths with those few, uniqu-er seekers who need what you have. And Art, on other levels, is a more NEEDED thing than food and shelter. Many people know that it is the way to unusual gratifications (more and more all the time). And we all musnt expect every artifact to be of equal significance...obviously, some things are done purely to attend to matters of sustenance...fine, but it is the things that are NOT attached to anyones "job" that will permit your own growth...which is infectuous...they'll really want a piece of THAT. Hell I do. When I see Art that I imagine yielded great things to its maker...I want a piece of that. Sometimes I buy it...or trade for it. So it is crucial, when an artist is pitted against his peoples economies, that he continue to progress in the areas of detached purity...because those episodes feed the "jobs" which can then be accomplished to everyones satisfaction very easily during the regular hours of downtime.
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  #10  
Old 12-20-2009, 06:51 PM
ironman ironman is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

hey man, give him a break, why are you getting angry at evaldart? He's doing what he can just like the rest of us and he certainly doesn't have to justify himself to anyone on this forum. do your shit, market it or go out and get a fucking job until the economy picks up or better yet, shut the hell up!!!!!!!
you are obviously not a creative artist, the creative types ARE making it precisely because they are creative!!!
you're just wallowing in self pity, Grow up dude!
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  #11  
Old 12-20-2009, 09:04 PM
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Lady Fingers Lady Fingers is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Oh how I dream of having a little someone to do all the chores that keep me from the studio...

This year I haven't noticed the economy, because I've had a luxurious year in development. I've made art absolutely for arts sake. No deadlines, the luxury of time to make mistakes, experiment, grow.
I'd had a five year run of commissions and grants, where I wrote about my work before I made it. Writing a new application, while signing off another. It enabled me to develop discipline in areas i needed at the time, but I felt the work was suffering toward the end. I dropped my community projects too, till a month or so ago.
this year I haven't done my tax (yet) and the house, garden and bank balance are fairing far better than I'd hoped. Gee it's a happy home and I'm VERY happy with the new work.
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  #12  
Old 12-20-2009, 09:30 PM
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Lady, Its no small task keeping me "attached" and palatable...and no "little" somebody could handle it.

Of course the works suffered... commissioned or proposed work is almost always lesser Art than those odd things that you do for NO-ONE but yourself. We do commissions because its a great way to be in the studio all the time, tangentially asserting our creative urges, and to NOT be in some damned office, assembly line or labor crew surrounded by...well you know what. When economic circumstances deplete the big sales and commissions we've got to find a way round it...apply the creativity in a different way, bark up other trees. Thats all just plain ol survival and plenty of regular folks do it in their "businesses" all the time. We are part of that too.

"Happy" is easy. It takes a PAINED pursuit to now and then get yerself better than just "happy". We artists are in the unique position of being able to acquire this no matter what the bullshit DOW JONES is blabbering. Just gotta have the nerve, thats all.

Perceiving yourself a victim NEVER leads in a good direction (even if you are).
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  #13  
Old 12-20-2009, 10:00 PM
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironman View Post
Primary reason why I hardly participate on this site any more, too much BS like this.

Report disruptive posts if you see them. It's a big help.
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  #14  
Old 12-20-2009, 10:17 PM
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Lady Fingers Lady Fingers is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
Of course the works suffered... commissioned or proposed work is almost always lesser Art than those odd things that you do for NO-ONE but yourself. We do commissions because its a great way to be in the studio all the time, tangentially asserting our creative urges, and to NOT be in some damned office, assembly line or labor crew surrounded by...well you know what. When economic circumstances deplete the big sales and commissions we've got to find a way round it...apply the creativity in a different way, bark up other trees. Thats all just plain ol survival and plenty of regular folks do it in their "businesses" all the time. We are part of that too.

"Happy" is easy. It takes a PAINED pursuit to now and then get yerself better than just "happy". We artists are in the unique position of being able to acquire this no matter what the bullshit DOW JONES is blabbering. Just gotta have the nerve, thats all.

Perceiving yourself a victim NEVER leads in a good direction (even if you are).
No victims here.
Oh and I'm orgasmic over my work - always have been.
The commission stage was extremely important and valuable, on lots of levels. It was fascinating to reach a place where I felt I'd emptied myself of a particular message, accomplished what i'd set out to do. The was no financial motivation behind it either, it's never been a concern.
Quote:
Lady, Its no small task keeping me "attached" and palatable...and no "little" somebody could handle it.
I was thinking more along the lines of a little elf, or even better a team of them, like the shoemaker - total fantasy. I certainly don't require anyone to take responsibility for my emotional state, as you describe.
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  #15  
Old 12-20-2009, 10:28 PM
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Lady Fingers Lady Fingers is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

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Originally Posted by outsider View Post
That's great Ladyfingers. You showed a few pics of college work from what, 20 years ago? and you live with kangaroos. whoo hoo
Oh Outsider, I had intended to post so much more, chronologically. Doubt I'll ever post my work here again.
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  #16  
Old 12-21-2009, 05:15 AM
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underfoot underfoot is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Hey outsider,
I Imagine our economists as a little microcosm of this forum sitting around a table attempting to reach a unanimous decision,
perhaps yourself, GlennT, Joe, Evaldart, grommet, Ries, craigtx, ladyfingers, suburbanartist, cheesepaws, nelson, ironman, etc etc, sitting around a table trying to reach a consensus.
one of these days you'll come to realise that there's no one driving the ship.
It's up to you mate.
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  #17  
Old 12-21-2009, 09:13 AM
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Quote:
Doubt I'll ever post my work here again.
I've pointed this out several times in the past. All my favorite sculptors have adopted the same attitude and left. What they had in common was that their work was extremely strong and forward looking. Their work didn't get the recognition it deserved. The uptight and narrow minded pushed them away with the usual moronic "but is it art?" arguments. What can be more insulting than that? Nothing. Who would even want to show work here when the reception is invaded by negative people who don't have a clue. Oh yeah, the first attempt potato shaped lumps of clay get the plenty of praise and encouragement. But those that really work and accomplish get the life and beauty stomped out of them.
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  #18  
Old 12-21-2009, 09:42 AM
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Nope, Joe, and its narrow of you to think that only the stuff you think is "beautiful and accomplished" gets stomped-on. I have seen EVERY kind of work get stomped-on (and every kind of work praised). Stomping happens to be part of discourse. Stomping should be invited as much as praise. The people who frequent this site and wish to blather, do-so because there are crumbs of insight to be gained (yes there are). The fact that there are a wide range of individuals with a wide range of beliefs and backrounds makes the whole thing better. And if the scaredy pants sculptors get insulted by some typed words, too bad, they can run away...maybe this kind of exchange is not for them...there are plenty of ways us artfarts can interact. An internet forum is just one small thing.

Its all blather...there will be heat and there will be warmth and there will be cold. There will be clashing personalities, clashing ideologies and maybe even a typed brouhaha. Bring it on.

NO ONE is wrong about Art ever. You can be wrong about some things, but Art aint one of them..we can only be just different. And if you're making any gains intellectually you'll be changing too.

So dont cry for the insulted geniuses who didnt wanna hear it here...they can take care of themselves just fine. They are SCULPTORS - the most elevated and authentic boot-wearing predators on Earth. TOP of the food chain (as aesthetics goes).
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  #19  
Old 12-21-2009, 09:50 AM
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jOe~ jOe~ is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Quote:
NO ONE is wrong about Art ever.
I've learned a few things over the years and changed my mind, and expanded my thinking and thus have been wrong about art, mine and others. Your "iron clad" attitude sums up the problem I'm addressing.

Quote:
And if the scaredy pants sculptors get insulted by some typed words, too bad, they can run away...
Its not about being scared. Its about wasting time on pointless endeavors, like having meaningless encounters.

Quote:
So dont cry for the insulted geniuses who didnt wanna hear it here...they can take care of themselves just fine
Its about keeping this forum vital and current as opposed to a breeding ground for hobbyist naysayers seeking self gratification.

Last edited by jOe~ : 12-21-2009 at 09:59 AM. Reason: more
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  #20  
Old 12-21-2009, 10:06 AM
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

MOST endeavors are pointless...pointed ones are exceptional and hard-gained and are NOT to be expected from casual encounters such as a discussion. The fear of wasting time is a...a waste of time. Theres plenty of time for everything...just takes a little intensity, thats all.

Scaredy pants, thin skinned, proper, intellectual, respectful creative types are playing in the sandbox over on the poetry forum. Arguing over rhymers and over-extended metaphors. You wouldnt want to be there.
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  #21  
Old 12-21-2009, 10:13 AM
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Quote:
MOST endeavors are pointless..
This discussion definitely is. Over and out.
Quote:
Theres plenty of time for everything...
The folly of youth.
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  #22  
Old 12-21-2009, 11:54 AM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
I've pointed this out several times in the past. All my favorite sculptors have adopted the same attitude and left. What they had in common was that their work was extremely strong and forward looking. Their work didn't get the recognition it deserved. The uptight and narrow minded pushed them away with the usual moronic "but is it art?" arguments. What can be more insulting than that? Nothing. Who would even want to show work here when the reception is invaded by negative people who don't have a clue. Oh yeah, the first attempt potato shaped lumps of clay get the plenty of praise and encouragement. But those that really work and accomplish get the life and beauty stomped out of them.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The irony here is that when I posted my first attempt at sculpting an abstract work, trying a completely new approach from anything done before in my life, jOe's critique had these kind, non-insulting words:

"The piece for me fails completely. It looks like practice work for drapery folds . This piece doesn't work at all. Dabbling always looks like dabbling.
Thats why it failed. Your mind wasn't engaged. "

How is that for encouragement? Never mind that the critique was of an at that point unfinished work, or that I would be extremely embarassed if my practice work for drapery actually looked like that ( I'm not convinced jOe has ever done drapery studies). It was labeled a failure before it even got off the ground. To be fair there was much more in the critique than these excerpts, but basically it was ways to compare how much more is involved in doing good abstract work than my pitiful little offering.

If I were like the sensitive artists that jOe is referring to, I too might have left after getting such a critique. But fortunately, others had helpful advice or words of encouragement that helped me pursue it further to completion. Plus, as I would expect any artist who wants to improve and evolve would do, on my original post was a solicitation for an honest critique. I'm not complaining about jOe offering me what he was able. Just pointing out the irony of today's post, which incidentally I still have not figured out what it has to do with this thread's topic.
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  #23  
Old 12-21-2009, 12:13 PM
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Quote:
but basically it was ways to compare how much more is involved in doing good abstract work than my pitiful little offering.
My comments about Glenn's work need to be put in context too. Prior to his attempt at abstraction, he had for a long time been denigrating abstraction. This piece was to be proof that there just wasn't much to it. Well, there wasn't much to it, his first attempt that is. Glenn does outstanding figurative work in the classical tradition. For someone who has been extremely negative about modern art to think he can just create a modern master piece at first go is a bit silly. And I stick by my comments about the work. There is no irony.

Lady Fingers is the latest artist to think about no longer posting work. Its not that she is overly sensitive or weak. She has proven herself and her ability to go toe to toe with anyone here. To not see future work of hers would be a significant loss. But, I do appreciate the lack of motivation.
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  #24  
Old 12-21-2009, 12:39 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Oh, jOe, welcome back from "This discussion definitely is (pointless). Over and out." I was just talking about you!

Your last post provides more gems into your perspective:

" Prior to his attempt at abstraction, he had for a long time been denigrating abstraction. This piece was to be proof that there just wasn't much to it."

First, I have not been denigrating abstraction. My periodic gushings over the works of dessertrock, evaldart, and tonofelephant and others should be proof of that. I had been denigrating certain types of art that were mocking or contemptous of human life, but in fact these are found in both abstract and figurative skill sets.

Second, you have to be out of your mind if you think that my motivation for creating a work of art is or was to prove "there wasn't much to it."
My motivation, in fact, was looking at a piece of alabaster, and deciding to see what would happen if for once in my life I let the stone dictate the idea rather than my idea dictate how to remove enough stone until my idea was what remained.

"Well, there wasn't much to it, his first attempt that is."

More demonstrations that unlike the narrow minded and uptight, jOe's critiques are helpful and full of substance.

"Glenn does outstanding figurative work in the classical tradition."

Aw, shucks, thanks for throwing me a bone!

"For someone who has been extremely negative about modern art to think he can just create a modern master piece at first go is a bit silly."

Perhaps that is why projecting your concepts on what I do is neither fair, reasonable, accurate, or honest. I don't remember saying or thinking a thing about creating a modern masterpiece on my first go. I think the extent of my claims were on the order of, "Here am I, trying something completely new and different than my usual work."

And, for the 1000th time, my "extreme negativity" regarding modern art is selective, mainly concerning extremelty negative modern art. Since all artists alive today could be considered "modern artists", there are plenty of artists who I am either positive about or at least indifferent.


"And I stick by my comments about the work. There is no irony."

Futher irony. Keep em comin' jOe!
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  #25  
Old 12-21-2009, 02:09 PM
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Re: FIX THE GODDAMN ECONOMY !!!!

Quote:
Oh, jOe, welcome back from "This discussion definitely is (pointless). Over and out." I was just talking about you!
It was a courtesy post to rely to you since the topic had changed a bit. Sorry. Won't happen again.

I was in error about your denigrating all abstract art. I should have said, contemporary, conceptual, etc.. I didn't mean to include easy to understand abstraction or simple modern.

Quote:
Just to be sure I haven't lost my head after shoveling all the snow today, are you the same person who today in regards to this sculpture website wrote this:

"Also, being an aesthetically sensitive person, the ugliness of this sight offends."
Glenn's comment to Lady Fingers first post of her work. I wonder why her work is no longer visible? Could it have anything to do with a typical Glenn snide comment? He constantly professes to be loving and compassionate toward all mankind, but some how...

Last edited by jOe~ : 12-21-2009 at 02:25 PM. Reason: up date
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