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  #1  
Old 04-10-2009, 10:00 AM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Critic vs Collector

Robert Hughes always cracks me up. He has indeed made it his task to expose the charaders. And not afraid of anyone. Too bad he didnt have it in him to pick up a hammer. He might have been a good one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw1neeF_GNc

I almost pity the poor little rich guy, there.
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  #2  
Old 04-10-2009, 01:54 PM
outsider outsider is offline
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Re: Critic vs Collector

I pity Robert Hughes's son who was a sculptor and committed suicide at age 31.
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  #3  
Old 04-11-2009, 12:59 AM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

I don't pity anyone who commits suicide, just those they leave behind.. Suicide is a permanant solution to a temporary problem and the most selfish act a person can commit next to murder or rape..
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  #4  
Old 04-11-2009, 03:17 AM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

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Originally Posted by StevenW View Post
I don't pity anyone who commits suicide, just those they leave behind.. Suicide is a permanant solution to a temporary problem and the most selfish act a person can commit next to murder or rape..
I have to strongly disagree with this statement. Although I agree it is hard on those left behind - a person must have been in deep turmoil to do something so drastic. Whether physical or mental, it may actually be more than that person can take. It may also be a solution to a permanant problem (like cancer for instance). It may have been the case that those around them did little to help. The point is that you don't know the circumstances around each death and making a sweeping statement like that demonstrates a lack of real thought on the subject.

If you have been touched by it yourself I can understand you feeling strongly about it.
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  #5  
Old 04-11-2009, 03:31 AM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

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Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
I almost pity the poor little rich guy, there.
I hadn't come across Robert Hughes before, and I am not convinced by the Warhol defense that the poor little rich guy put up. That's part of the problem with pop art - it's transient nature and timeness - just like a pop song, shallow media based, culturally sensitive yet passing and ultimately dispossable. Processes that are easily reproducable and mass marketable.

In the case of the art collector - it seemed to be a money thing and not an art thing - shame really
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  #6  
Old 04-11-2009, 11:13 AM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

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Originally Posted by LimeCutter View Post
I have to strongly disagree with this statement. Although I agree it is hard on those left behind - a person must have been in deep turmoil to do something so drastic. Whether physical or mental, it may actually be more than that person can take. It may also be a solution to a permanant problem (like cancer for instance). It may have been the case that those around them did little to help. The point is that you don't know the circumstances around each death and making a sweeping statement like that demonstrates a lack of real thought on the subject.

If you have been touched by it yourself I can understand you feeling strongly about it.
Ya I have been touched by it personally and no, I have given it no small amount of thought.. I've thought about it almost every day for 25 years.

I think Hughes in his funny bit of stoicism is probably spot on in his observations, but even in the most convincing of certainties there is always an element of doubt, or at least there should be to a rationale person.
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  #7  
Old 04-11-2009, 11:33 AM
outsider outsider is offline
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Re: Critic vs Collector

Can you imagine one of the worlds most powerful art critics as your father if you were a sculptor? That's the pity. I wonder how hard Hughes was on his son's art? Growing up trying to please that man must have been awful.
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  #8  
Old 04-11-2009, 03:00 PM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

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Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
Robert Hughes always cracks me up. And not afraid of anyone.
.
yet another Aussie tells it like he sees it.
"the truth shall set you free, and get you kicked out of parties" quote.
can't agree with all of his ramblings but he's a damn good read

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I pity Robert Hughes's son who was a sculptor and committed suicide at age 31.
Outsider, do the research before you start pointing fingers.
bad form mate.
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  #9  
Old 04-13-2009, 09:49 AM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

"Hughes and Emerson had one child, Danton (30 September 1967 - 2002), named after the French revolutionary, Georges Danton. Danton became a sculptor and lived in Sydney's Blue Mountains. In 2002, at age 34, Danton Hughes took his own life by gassing himself with his car in the garage."
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  #10  
Old 04-13-2009, 11:59 AM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

I watched the Bedford incident last night after all the easter egg hunting and everyone went home happy and stuffed.. Another great Lib Nuker flick with Sidney Portier as the insightful lib journalist.. Seriously, the only thing that wiki entry is missing is that he was a self-absorbed little twat who wanted to get back at everyone who loved him in the most insidious way possible.. Great, you win... Next!
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  #11  
Old 04-13-2009, 03:54 PM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

Danton Hughes had been completely estranged from his father for many years before taking his own life.
he did however have a close relationship with his (270lb, cocaine and heroin addicted, lesbian) mother, who had just been diagnosed with terminal cancer.
I'm not suggesting this is reason for his suicide either,
I'm saying NOBODY knows his reasons, not even you outsider
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  #12  
Old 04-13-2009, 06:10 PM
denise lassaw denise lassaw is offline
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Re: Critic vs Collector

Umm I guess I missed this news. Another Hughes, Nicolas Hughes also committed suicide in Fairbanks AK this week- he was the son of Slyvia Plath- another sad story. I know too many people who chose to die and left us wondering, wondering forever just why they did it.

But regarding critics I just found this quote from Harold Rosenberg, although it was written in 1964 it seems contemporary to me.

Denise


"Art criticism is probably the only remaining intellectual activity,
not excluding theology, in which pre-Darwinian minds continue to
affirm value systems dissociated from any observable phenomena."

Harold Rosenberg, Art at Mid-Century, 1964
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  #13  
Old 04-14-2009, 04:28 AM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

while we are on the subject of quotes here is one from a local critic

"There are few things in art that are quite as boring as mindless displays of technical skill"
Sebastian Smee

rubbish..
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  #14  
Old 04-14-2009, 01:26 PM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

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Originally Posted by rusted_art View Post
while we are on the subject of quotes here is one from a local critic

"There are few things in art that are quite as boring as mindless displays of technical skill"
Sebastian Smee

rubbish..
I like that quote. If all you do is technically perfect work than really you are just a great craftsman. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

Eval great utube clip. That ornery bastard is pretty funny. Love the hirst slam.
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  #15  
Old 04-14-2009, 06:39 PM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

As well as is collection of critical essays Ol' Hughes wrote a great book on the history of Aussie-land, dispelling the myth that the continent was actually populated by irish political prisoners not petty thieves. He's a great debunker, but an awful driver, so i hear.
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  #16  
Old 04-15-2009, 11:56 AM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

I LIKE mindless displays of technical skill.

But I find most critics pretty boring.
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  #17  
Old 04-15-2009, 01:02 PM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

Fantastic
I have not been on the board for a while and the first thread I find is this great video and some debate, (OK, I admit that the video was better than the debate).
How refreshing to hear this critic, I could just imagine what he might say about my work..... it's good to think about what he might say every once in a while, it keeps us honest and hopefully improving.
I couldn't agree more with Hughes about Warhol or Hirst, but then what do I know I most likely err on the mindless technical skill side but I do love mindless displays of technical skill especially in machinery.... cars for example.
Thanks for the entertainment
I have missed you guys I just didn't know how much
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  #18  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:05 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Critic vs Collector

is this one of those 'boys and their toys' conversations?
I prefer mindful displays of technical skill.
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  #19  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:45 PM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

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Originally Posted by grommet View Post
is this one of those 'boys and their toys' conversations?
I prefer mindful displays of technical skill.
Good one , grommet . But I still prefer the mindless one , than no skill at all.And , being a bit on the craft side myself , I feel suspicious when somebody says
Quote:
"There are few things in art that are quite as boring as mindless displays of technical skill"
- just can't help thinking it's sour old grapes
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  #20  
Old 04-15-2009, 02:53 PM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

If great technical skill is found boring, it may be because such mastery is so far from the ability of the writer that there is no internal resonance for which he or she can relate to in seeing it. It goes in one eyeball and out the other without having found a brain particle of shared experience to latch onto.
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  #21  
Old 04-15-2009, 07:38 PM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

Hah, these art-critics are our comedians. Some are sharp witted (not like a sharp chisel). They're certainly more entertaining than philosphers, poets and historians, for gods sake.

If you've ever read Hughes skewering Schnabel you rolled on the floor gasping delightfully for a breath.
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  #22  
Old 04-16-2009, 12:25 AM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

While i appreciate the "Blob" i can't chime in with the anti-intellectualism, nor would he brook that sort of foolishness. It's strange for a herd of cats, so many artists want to belong....

Keep in mind the bloodsport everyone is chuckling at is that which many complain--critics on a field day with art they don't like. Anyone been on the the end of that beating stick? That hughes takes on the "titans" with a small "t," is tasty, especially if shooting fish in a barrel is your sort of thing. But before we go too far, the guy is a mean-spirited shit about it, a real etonian bully, a real poobah.

I find it slightly sanctimonious for the former art critic of "Time" to talk about soulless marketing of art; there are Faustian bargains aplenty to be made by artists and critics--what about writing for the jerk-off, puff, newsmagazine of the year? I think it's still possible to make the seamless transition from Time critic to entertainment tonight co-cost/bon vivant without even an eyebrow mention in Talk of the Town http://www.newyorker.com/archive/200...924ta_talk_wtc

(Nothing like Time nominating the "endangered Earth" as "p" da year, while doing a publishers clearinghouse mailbox stuffer in four-color glossy...nice hypocrisy.)

Methinks the critique of quality or lack thereof by we fartistes is a canard and that many of us are really only resentful we haven't received the notariety of Schnabel or Hirst.

But let's get real: wall street proved this year it ain't a meritocracy, so i say quit griping. This is unless of course you've drunk the Evalixir, in which case I recommend a handful of oxys and a subconscious vasectomy--that way you can savage the bride and not know you're shooting blanks.


As for the mindlesness and boredom of technical skill: everyone here can personalize the comment, but after seeing countless renditions of unicorns, skulls, crying clowns, paint-by-number landscapes, innocuous family scenes, child busts, washington-on-the-delaware bronzes etc. done in excruciating, sometime painfully exacting detail it's hard not to concur. How 'bout an another aussie sunset, eh mate?

Last edited by grhb : 04-16-2009 at 12:57 AM.
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  #23  
Old 04-16-2009, 12:49 AM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

forgot to add the photo--from PBS

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/australia/bio.html
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  #24  
Old 04-16-2009, 07:30 AM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

Could it be Grhb that you have yet to grasp that imageries, (mis) representations, tromp'leoil handiwork and undecipherable non-objectivities are NEVER actually the subject of a real work of Art? Are you actually a sneaky little critic - necktied, bespectacled and clean - trying to play with the sculptors? Hmmmmm?

oh and save the "sour grapes' argument for the schoolyard. We here, aside from being bombasts of physical production, have achieved (by the fruits of said production) extra-human intellectual heights as well.

Last edited by evaldart : 04-16-2009 at 07:41 AM.
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  #25  
Old 04-16-2009, 10:50 PM
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Re: Critic vs Collector

I guess I didn't realize I was playing with the big boys.

Ya know this whole thing about real art and real artists versus--i guess fake art and fake artists-- gets me. A few well directed comments about art and this whole community quickly goes McCarthy on itself, looking for posers under every pixel, when they should really be turning the webcam on themselves.

You're articulate--boink--you can't be an artist. Use words as well as chisels and grinders--boink--not an artist. Expressing opinions counter to the mainstream romantics--boink--not an artist.

In my short life on this board, I don't think I've ever insinuated anyone is NOT an artist, and yet because i challenge ideas, it appears as regular subtext against my words. how about we just keep it on the up and up: I don't like the "what a real artist is" claim because it seeks to control what any artist is. And while that might work in the hands of smart people sooner or later some dumb cluck will be in charge. next thing you know we've got pogroms and litmus tests--a fine community of creativity.

If it makes you feel better, E sure, sure, I'm just a pencil-necked geek, harnessing mom's computer power before wakey-time. And you forgot effeminate.

And back to the subject at hand, the schoolyard if you will:

---C'mon get real E, had anyone of the sculpt.net ancients produced Hirst's Virgin Mother, you all'd be falling over one another in fawning praise. Criminy the thing looks like a freakin' robot and its monstrous, that's thumbs up in Evalspeak right? So what gives, why does the poobah get such praise for venting on DH, when otherwise he'd be just another scribblin' flim flam man?

Anyone besides E, gonna tell me art doesn't require marketing?

This reminds me of a story, maybe its an allegory, maybe not:

my high school teacher brother became head of the union bargaining team and tried to fight to raise first year salaries. His biggest opposition: other teachers. The tenured bastards wanted percentage salary increases--which would be larger for those at the higher end of the pay scale. What's more, they were adamant on not changing the status of the first year teacher which had become the poster child for the "poor educator." Without the $18k starter, they couldn't pitch poverty and add to their $100k+ positions.

Seems to me, telling other creatives to be true to their creations and forget marketing or eye trickery, add ons, is exactly that: a bunch of comfortable cats who sold out long ago protecting their turf, happy to see the rubes wander/defusing their competition.
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