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  #1  
Old 08-26-2007, 01:54 AM
AKady AKady is offline
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Is this art?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...11&ito=newsnow

I just have to question somethings I hear people refer to art and I was wondering what everyone here thinks.
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  #2  
Old 08-26-2007, 03:43 AM
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Aaron Schroeder Aaron Schroeder is offline
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Re: Is this art?

Yes it's art. It's fun art.
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  #3  
Old 08-26-2007, 07:35 AM
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Julianna Julianna is offline
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Re: Is this art?

It's fun, but I wouldn't call it art. What is artistic about it? Crafty, yes, but I don't see the artistic merit.
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  #4  
Old 08-26-2007, 08:06 AM
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Re: Is this art?

It is fun. I think it takes some trial and error effort to make a large folded vessel that can support a person and stay stable and afloat.

He happens to be an artist. I don't think it really matters whether or not this vessel is art, does it?
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  #5  
Old 08-26-2007, 09:50 PM
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Re: Is this art?

Amusing, neat idea, would have liked to see it, and will probably use it the next time we have a paper boat race down the local river.... But I would not qualify it as art...
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  #6  
Old 08-26-2007, 10:34 PM
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Re: Is this art?

I wouldn'y call it craft, the charm of it is that it looks like it was made by a 50 foot tall 7 year old. So many temporary things qualify as art and performance/event/happening...I dont see why it couldn't be art.
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  #7  
Old 08-27-2007, 08:30 AM
Duck Duck is offline
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Re: Is this art?

AKady
I'm kind of a newbee to art and that’s one of the first questions I had to put to bed. To me all art is entertainment, in this case it's kinda cool that the artist is part of the entertainment too, of course if the paper boat sprung a leak and sunk with him in it----well that would be even more entertaining wouldn’t it.
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  #8  
Old 08-27-2007, 12:26 PM
ironman ironman is offline
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Re: Is this art?

Hi, Yeah, that's the best piece of (duh!) I've seen in a long time.
Have a great day,
Jeff
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  #9  
Old 08-27-2007, 07:10 PM
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Re: Is this art?

I'm happier to call this art than many of the other things we've discussed recently. One thing art is, is fun. And that this is.
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  #10  
Old 08-27-2007, 09:53 PM
MSC MSC is offline
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Re: Is this art?

Clearly, it is a craft and one that floats even
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  #11  
Old 08-28-2007, 01:51 PM
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ExNihiloStudio ExNihiloStudio is offline
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Re: Is this art?

Check out the article called
"An Artist and His Sub Surrender in Brooklyn"

at NYTimes.com published on Aug. 4 2007
or
try this link
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  #12  
Old 08-28-2007, 02:12 PM
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Re: Is this art?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duck
AKady
I'm kind of a newbee to art and that’s one of the first questions I had to put to bed. To me all art is entertainment, in this case it's kinda cool that the artist is part of the entertainment too, of course if the paper boat sprung a leak and sunk with him in it----well that would be even more entertaining wouldn’t it.
Duck,
Well I keep trying to put that one to bed but it always wakes up and crawls UNDER the bed, jumps out to scare the shit outta me in the middle of the night. Maybe one day it will go to sleep.

And while my art has no doubt amused some people I couldn't say it ever "entertained" them. It just won't dance. But some hot slag in my Redwings certainly has me cuttin' a rug now and then...and THAT is entertaining for sure.
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  #13  
Old 08-30-2007, 12:58 AM
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Re: Is this art?

I have always struggled with the arguments that art is not craft and that art is craft. Since bauhaus and functional craft as art to my art school where I knew they were more worried about my craft/skill/workmanship than any creat art that I made. I railed against the judgement of art pieces by the quality of craftsmanship. And yet, I think that the boat is craft built and very creative. It speaks to me of spontinaity and, like evaldart said, it is an art piece (albeit performance/instalation/etc.) There is art everywhare that is like spontainious, temporary pieces.
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  #14  
Old 08-30-2007, 06:37 AM
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Re: Is this art?

Conceptual, I'd say, given the title of the show ('Until the end of the world'), with possibly some cute references to Noah's ark. This isn't an ark, though, it's an indulgence, which may be part of the point.
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  #15  
Old 08-30-2007, 10:16 AM
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Merlion Merlion is offline
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Re: Is this art?

I notice AKady started this thread with a link to an online DailyMail link. But many news sites take articles off after a number of days to save on online space. Thus for future reference, I am posting below from the site excerpts from and one of the two photos.

Artist sets sail in life-size paper boat

25 Aug 2007, Artist Frank Boelter set sails in his lifesize paper boat as he leaves a shipyard in Lauenburg, Germany.

He constructed the 9-metre vessel from 'Tetrapack' and fearlessly sailed it up the Elbe, despite the fact the light material is more commonly used for packaging milk. ...



The £110 boat is 30 feet long, weighs 55 pounds, uses a 170-square-metre piece of Tetrapack paper, and took only two hours to construct.
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  #16  
Old 08-30-2007, 01:05 PM
natural natural is offline
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Re: Is this art?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MSC
Clearly, it is a craft and one that floats even
This has been bugging me for a couple of days now. There seems to be a tendency in the fine art world to call anything that doesn’t meet one's esthetic values "craft" rather than art. When I think of craft, I think of objects whose primary esthetic value comes from how (and how well) they are made as opposed to fine art whose primary value is in why they were made. If, when you look at this object you are thinking about how clever his origami technique is then it's craft. I'd argue that most people will look at it in terms of a kind of whimsical nostalgia which is why the artist made it. I won't say this is great art but it clearly is art by my definition.
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  #17  
Old 09-28-2007, 04:36 PM
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Re: Is this art?

More thoughts:

On PBS I heard TAHA MUHAMMAD ALI (the poet through translator) say something that resonnated with me, at last:

"And, so, it has taken me all of 60 years to understand that water is the finest drink and bread the most delicious food, and that art is worthless unless it plants a measure of splendor in people's hearts."

(full transcript available on NPR site somewhere)

And so, the floating thing is fun and tugs at the child within (gag) and it's so cute (gag gag) but tis not worthy art. Nor is the toilet bowl, the blank (purple, red, black, bare, whatever) canvas, etc.

That kind of definition works for me.

ZZ
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  #18  
Old 10-05-2007, 04:42 AM
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Re: Is this art?

Would it be art if he made 1000 of them and was not in the 'craft'?
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  #19  
Old 10-05-2007, 01:49 PM
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Re: Is this art?

Quote:
Would it be art if he made 1000 of them and was not in the 'craft'?
That would make it a fleet. And that changes everything. People have a harder time arguing against an idea if you've given them 1000 examples of its existence. You could also call it nuts, but then that would validate it. Anything that useless and that far out of the norm could only be art. What else could you call it?
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  #20  
Old 10-06-2007, 12:06 AM
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Re: Is this art?

I've said if I ever got a vanity license plate it would say ISITRT.
I just think it is funny because everyone has an opinion about what is art and no one agrees.
My husband in response said if I get that plate he will get one that says RTMYAS.
Whatever.
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  #21  
Old 10-06-2007, 02:04 PM
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JasonGillespie JasonGillespie is offline
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Re: Is this art?

Is it me or has this question arisen much of late? Not that that is a bad thing in and of itself...rather the debate on the topic seems to fall along the same lines among the same people. Some don't think it is others do...the litany is a carbon copy each time.

Even a dyed in the wool "fencepost conversationalist" like myself begins to wonder whether or not anything new will be said about this....given the "us and them" nature of the question and that the answer is at the core of most artists' individual belief systems.



As loathe as I am to admit it, I'm beginning to think it doesn't matter...go have a ball...make whatever you want and call yourself whatever you like. Artist, sculptor, painter, genius....whatever. There are few professions where a majority of the people will let you get away with doing just about anything you want so take advantage of it while you can....right? (Is this what cynicism feels like?)

Mr. Boelter looks happy...maybe that is all that matters anymore.
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  #22  
Old 10-06-2007, 04:02 PM
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GlennT GlennT is offline
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Re: Is this art?

Jason, I don't think the ambulatory of Saint Denis could have echoed my thoughts any better. The tired minds that are happy to have a ball and let cultural standards disappear into narcisstic nihlism are stridently insistent that art is whatever the artist says is art. And the "artist" is anyone who claims the title. Arguing that point gets one nowhere, just one more target for verbal abuse.

The best way to answer the " What is art?" question is to create art. Real art. The kind that moves and inspires people, rather than generating the question, "Is this art?".

Last edited by GlennT : 10-06-2007 at 05:34 PM.
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  #23  
Old 10-06-2007, 05:46 PM
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Re: Is this art?

Quote:
have a ball and let cultural standards disappear into narcisstic nihlism are stridently insistent that art is whatever the artist says is art.
For starters, definitions of art have never been offered. Cultural standards??? Yup, its the same stupid, nutty discussion. Some want to enforce that undefinable and live in a free society. If art isn't about freedom of expression first and foremost, ignore everything I ever write because I must be delusional.


Yeah, its the same folks taking their usual positions. I left this site for several months because some discussions were so stupid, amazingly nonsensical, and destructive. I couldn't believe what I was reading. Some incredibly talented people also left this site for probably the same reasons. I came back because there are some very good people here who get it and I learn from them. I'm all for having a ball. Beats the hell out of being in handcuffs, mental or physical. I would never think of limiting or bashing someone's attempt at "fun". So to protect freedom of expression for everyone, I've decided to thump the naysayers on the noggin, not that I have any fantasies of changing anyone. Cultural standards...thump, thump, thump.
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  #24  
Old 10-06-2007, 06:14 PM
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JasonGillespie JasonGillespie is offline
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Re: Is this art?

Quote:
So to protect freedom of expression for everyone,
Quote:
I've decided to thump the naysayers on the noggin, not that I have any fantasies of changing anyone. Cultural standards...thump, thump, thump.
Is it me or do these two thoughts (within the same sentence) seem to be at odds with each other?



I'm guessing that's freedom of expression for everyone but the "naysayers"?? (whatever that term is supposed to mean?)

Either you really are for "freedom of expression"...and that means everyone's..or you are full of it.
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  #25  
Old 10-06-2007, 06:35 PM
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Re: Is this art?

Quote:
Is it me or do these two thoughts (within the same sentence) seem to be at odds with each other?
Yup its you. You don't get it. In simpler terms: your freedom to swing your arm ends at the tip of my nose. If it touches my nose then I will thump you, and inhibit your freedom to swing your arm. Do no harm is the point. Now the part you conveniently ignored in your preference to attempt to catch me ...cultural standards. Do I need to spell this out for you? I assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that with your education you would jump all over this concept.
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