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  #26  
Old 12-19-2004, 04:16 PM
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Re: New Forum

Russ,

I hope you pick up this fairly late response.

I do agree the use of technology can help ease the drudgery of some tasks. After all, I graduated from gas welding (a faster than blacksmith welding technique) to MIG and STICK welding which are more efficient in their own ways. I also use electric grinders rather than files. My time is very precious so these make my life much easier.

As for computer modeling though, my wife, also and artist, and I were discussing just the other day as to whether or not computer manipulation of photographs and artwork is really art in our eyes. We both are on the fence on this one.

After all, the software is written by someone, is limited to their judgment, is limited by being digital where everything is either zero or one (on or off), is dependent on the resolution of the monitor viewed on or the quality of the printing process used, and probably loads of other elements that slip my mind. The thing is that it is not only the ARTIST that is involved with what is produced...there is a long line of elements the artist is dependent on for the end result, much of which is out of their hands.

But who am I to argue with progress? I can only chose my own path and have my own opinions.
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"Important artists are innovators whose work changes the practices of their successors; important works of art are those that embody these innovations."
Galenson, David W. Old Masters and young geniuses, Princeton University Press, 2006
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  #27  
Old 12-19-2004, 08:04 PM
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Re: New Forum; current computer limits and abilities

Oddist - I have worked with computers since the late 1950's, and obviously I think they can do great things. I did a fair bit of computer graphic (art) work in the early 1970's as soon as my university was able to provide my department and one other with a fulltime minicomputer with good graphic output.

Obviously, this was after hours, but we had it 24 hours a day. I wrote all the graphic programs, some dozen or so, with different drawing “skills”, and another prof and I published some of this work.

I, too, have been leery of computer art done with commercially available software, but after all, you didn’t built those welders, artists don’t refine their own metals, and most often don’t cast them. Each of us is dependent on the technology of our day, and we can chose to use that to good ends or to ignore it.

I do think, from what I have seen, that currently existing computer sculpting programs (often with computer-directed physical output) are sufficiently good and flexible enough to produce good sculpture. Sure, there are limits, but you also have limits with all that technology you use in welding and grinding, and in your source materials.
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  #28  
Old 12-20-2004, 10:19 AM
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Re: New Forum

Fritchie,

I do not disagree that we are all dependent on some things.

I too have been around computers for a long time and have spilled my share of punch cards across the floor.

I do however have controll over how much material I remove with a grinder or torch cutter or plasma cutter...I can also melt my material to a liquid state and let it run or pour into molds...I can heat it and bend it to my will....

There are no pixel limitations...
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"Important artists are innovators whose work changes the practices of their successors; important works of art are those that embody these innovations."
Galenson, David W. Old Masters and young geniuses, Princeton University Press, 2006
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  #29  
Old 12-20-2004, 02:48 PM
hpatenaude hpatenaude is offline
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Re: New Forum

As you can imagine I don't consider digital work to be o fany consequence to art.

But, I thought I'd chirp in because I would say the one place that the computer has excelled for me is in dimensioning, for those arts where it is materially impractical to work in an intuitive way, but where there's a seperation between 'design' and implementation... as architecture, unfortunately, seems to be. I take the computer here as a better ruler, it's made for this sort of thing, and the ability to work in 3 dimensions is far better than hand rendering a perspective or axonometric drawing on a drafting machine or mayline.

If I was doing, through a very incremental and iterative proces, a large scale composition where it was impossible to work at actual scale, and percise dimensioning had to be given to have hte parts made for it (i.e. basically a near-architectural scale here, with architectural modality of rectilinear planes and lines predominantly) I have no doubt that I would find myself using a computer, after working with sketch models to generate and refine the idea.

Of course, this may well be why so many large scale things are so lifeless. The medieval cathedrals being a great exception--and we all know how ad-hoc and organic their process was.
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  #30  
Old 12-20-2004, 08:23 PM
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Re: New Forum; computers and possibilities

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpatenaude
As you can imagine I don't consider digital work to be o fany consequence to art.
...
Of course, this may well be why so many large scale things are so lifeless. The medieval cathedrals being a great exception--and we all know how ad-hoc and organic their process was.
Lifeless or lifelike is matter of personal interpretation. I find minimalist sculptures full of “life” in an abstract way and very rich - they are creations of the human mind as much as the Gothic cathedrals and all their details.

Life and this world are very exciting things, and computers simply are among the latest and most powerful of human creations.
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  #31  
Old 12-20-2004, 11:15 PM
hpatenaude hpatenaude is offline
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Re: New Forum; computers and possibilities

Fritchie, you misread me. I said "most."

I too, find some abstract sculpture both beautiful and full of life. Don't box my tastes in so tight... I only judge along one or two axes [beauty and 'liveliness' is waht i'd say tonight], and they don't descriminate genre, only individual products...
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  #32  
Old 01-05-2005, 10:29 PM
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Re: New Forum

I think people tend to get a little too black and white about new technologies, thinking that something can only be either in the computer, or a handmade sculpture out in the world.
But lots of artists are doing things that cross over- sculptures that are designed in the computer, then made by machines, such as some of the stuff Heath Satow has been doing with Rhino- entirely drawn in the computer, sent electronically to a laser cutter, then built by hand. The hand of the artist is still very present- nobody else could take this same computer program and ocme up with the same finished sculpture- but the computer was essential nonetheless.
http://www.publicsculpture.com
Then there are artists like Jennifer Steinkamp, whose work first exists only in the computer, but then is projected. No physical object ever exists, but in my book this stuff is definitely sculpture- it isnt painting, or crafts, or writing or music, and it isnt a movie- it is an object, in space, even if that object only exists in the form of light, much like many of the projects of James Turrell, which are also definitely sculpture.
http://jsteinkamp.com/
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  #33  
Old 01-06-2005, 08:49 AM
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Re: New Forum

Hi Ries, I agree with what you said in your post and enjoyed looking at the web sites of Satow and Steinkamp's work.
I think that not only do people get too black and white about new technologies but they also box themselves into a corner with the methods they use.
One guy doesn't want to use armatures, another insists on making maquettes, another sketches. Someone else works totally without any plan except for a vague notion of what they want to do, another uses a computer. All of this is certainly valid and can and should be used depending on the problem at hand. I don't think you should put any limits on the methods or materials you use as it's the finished product and what you're trying to express that counts. I do welded steel sculpture which is a "building up" process rather than stone sculpture which is a "taking away" process. The "building up" process suits my temperment better, but I still carve stone once in a while and I also paint. I usually work from sketches, sometimes a maquette and at other times do found object pieces or assemblage. The one thing I don't do is to try and limit myself to some vague notion of "what art is or how it should be done" based on whatever anyone else has said or done in the past.
Everything is fair game as far as methods, materials, etc. and I don't think we should be putting ourselves in a corner, which to me is counterproductive to the very idea of what being a creative person is all about.
Have a nice day,
Jeff
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  #34  
Old 01-17-2005, 10:49 AM
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2d to 3d

Found this info just recently. Interesting way to go from drawing to 3 dimentional machined object.

Mastercam Art
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"Important artists are innovators whose work changes the practices of their successors; important works of art are those that embody these innovations."
Galenson, David W. Old Masters and young geniuses, Princeton University Press, 2006
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  #35  
Old 01-17-2005, 07:10 PM
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Re: 2d to 3d

Quote:
Originally Posted by oddist
Found this info just recently. Interesting way to go from drawing to 3 dimentional machined object.

Mastercam Art
I took a quick look, and it seems to generate high-relief objects from drawings. That's pretty limited, but with only one initial view, it's a start. Interesting reference, Oddist.
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  #36  
Old 01-18-2005, 06:09 AM
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Re: New Forum

Fritch,

I believe you're right. It is only high-relief. Still, it's not like plasma, laser or water jet cutting which only leave sharp-edged positive and negative space.

The interesting part here is being able to sculpt the 3rd dimension of a drawing in the virtual space of the computer, see what it looks like, then produce it by machining.

Think of what the Greeks might have done with this over the Parthenon.
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"Important artists are innovators whose work changes the practices of their successors; important works of art are those that embody these innovations."
Galenson, David W. Old Masters and young geniuses, Princeton University Press, 2006
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  #37  
Old 01-22-2005, 10:35 PM
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Re: New Forum

Hi,
My name is Michael Defeo and I just joined the forum tonight. I am interested in this subjuct. I think the folks at the Digital Stone Project are doing great work.
I head up the model department at Blue Sky studios (an animation studio). I have been doing digital modeling for 8 years now and there are a few realy cool "sculpting" style software packages out there. My 2 favorites are
zbrush and freeform.
Zbrush is more traditional digital modeling package but you "paint" alot of the forms after creating a basic model.
Freeform uses a force feedback stylus, very much like sculpting where you actually "feel" the model on the screen with this stylus device. I have been moving toward more fine art these days and hope to leave the animation industry soon so I hope to ask all of you for some advice in the near future.

Here's my website (very much in progress) I'll be adding a lot more figurative work this summer so I'll send out an update soon.

MD
http://www.michaeldefeo.com
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  #38  
Old 01-23-2005, 09:04 PM
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Re: New Forum

Welcome, Michael. I took a quick scan over much of your website, and you have a variety of quite good work. These digital tools really are advancing rapidly. I look forward to more posts in both this section and elsewhere, wherever you feel appropriate.
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  #39  
Old 01-27-2005, 09:57 PM
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Re: New Forum

Michael, you have an interesting mix of experiences. The sort of animation in Ice Age is spooky because it's real and unreal at once and so alive. Your maquettes for that are suddenly static. Same image, minus the motion. Interesting the contrast that happens. Your feel for three dimensions is stronger than the 2D that's on your site. It seems to me that you are an in-the-round kind of guy. While the kind of animation you've worked on relies on painting of a sort, is really is a 3D illusion or form of imagery. A flat canvas doesn't seem to do justice to your vision.
That's my two cents.
JAZ
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  #40  
Old 02-01-2005, 02:07 PM
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Re: New Forum

I work with the scanning portion of 3d sculptures. The technology is quite exciting to work with. We have scanned areas as large as the ramsess tomb in egypt and stele from south america. Although these items were scanned for study and not for art. The ability to reproduce and "fix" or enhance artwork that is ancient is amazing. Our website shows a few of the things we have worked on if anyone is interested www.3ds2.com . I personally wish more of this digital data from thousands of years ago would be more readily available to the public on the web. Most people just won't ever be able to see it in real life.
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  #41  
Old 02-01-2005, 05:53 PM
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Re: New Forum

Quote:
Originally Posted by JAZ
It seems to me that you are an in-the-round kind of guy. That's my two cents.
JAZ
Sorry fr the late reply. Thank you for the kind words, yes I consider my self a sculptor. The 2d work I do is fun and kind of a hobby really. As I mentioned I do like working in animation but I feel it's time for me to move more toward doing my own work. I hope to learn form the peolpe on this forum, how to begin moving around in the fine art world.
MD
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  #42  
Old 03-16-2005, 05:26 PM
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Re: New Forum

At 43 years old I feel like I am old school.When you fabricate sculptures with the materials at hand,use fly by the seat engineing and composition,the computer becomes worthless.When you have an idea and direction with more focus, it becomes a great tool.At what point does spening a majority of your time ,on a piece, working a computer instead of working and understanding the properties of the materials you chose to work in?How many artist will design sculptures on the computer,farm out the fab ,and never have a clue what the material they are working in?I guess the artist will eventually become computer geeks instead of studio geeks.
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  #43  
Old 03-22-2005, 09:56 PM
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Re: New Forum

art is creation, it matters not the tool, to argue over the tools is to lose sight of the creation. Jay
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  #44  
Old 03-30-2005, 06:23 AM
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Smile Re: New Forum

Hi Everyone,

I would like to introduce myself, My name is Phil Moherek I have something to add about Mastercam Art.I use Mastercam every day and it is great. I haven't used Mastercam Art yet but I have been at the last user meeting and got a demo before it was released and I have to say it looks great. You can't just purchase the Art side of it though you would need to get at least mill level one to use it. I also would like to let you all know that I own Accurate 3D Printing so if there is anything I can help you Artist out there with to assist in your prototype sculptures please don't hesitate to contact me. I have viewed some of the work that has been done from some of the Artists through this web site and I have to say I wish I had the artistic side of what you Artist have because I think the work is great. Well got to go to work now.

Thanks Phil Moherek

www.accurate3dprinting.com
pmoherek@accurate3dprinting.com
(973)-890-0866
Totowa New Jersey
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  #45  
Old 05-19-2005, 11:01 PM
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Re: New Forum

I think it's interesting that this topic has been posted on for two pages and not one person has mentioned Sol Le Witt. He said years ago that new technology is one of the most dangerous things for artists because they confuse new methods with new ideas (not a direct quote, but didn't feel like pulling out the Art in Theory At the end of the day, the concept is strong or it's not, regardless of how (or by whom as Judd taught us) the piece came together. I think all the brew-ha-ha over computer modeling, 3-D rendering, and the like is just that.

And that's all I'll say because the soap box is peeking out at me from under the bed where it's best kept.
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  #46  
Old 06-09-2005, 01:08 PM
GaryR52 GaryR52 is offline
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Re: New Forum

No offense intended, but I believe those who's view is that the computer is doing all the work for you haven't spent enough time using one themselves.

In my work with 3DS MAX, if the forms I'm creating don't look like what I'm trying to acheive, I delete them and start over. In fact, I've deleted more work than I've completed because I'm trying to acheive two things: (1) to create digital sculpture that retains some semblance of what I've done by hand in traditional media, so that it has continuity in terms of its being part of my body of work and (2) I'm trying to use this new medium for its own inherent strengths and characteristics. The digital realm allows possibilities that don't exist using other media and tools. In that sense, it is a new medium in its own right, with its own rules, its own way of doing things.

Those who use it to merely duplicate what can just as well be done by hand are missing the whole point of the digital medium. I don't use software to make sculpting easy; clearly, it is a more arduous task to chisel granite, but it is also misleading to assume that because one is inputting data by clicking with a mouse that the task of creating sculpture is simply a matter of a few mouse clicks. One can go with the defaults and one will get "default" sculpture as a result. Or, one can push the envelope a little more and use the software in ways it wasn't intended to be used for and thus learn how to create what he sees in his mind's eye. Learning how to use the tools is just as important and just as demanding as learning how to use any other tools. Knowing what you can and can't do and what the result will be are all part of the mastery of one's medium, whether that medium is clay, stone or digital data. Going a step farther and learning how to acheive what you've previsualized is where the real artistry lies. It's not just pushing buttons, folks.

Gary
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