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  #76  
Old 09-19-2008, 11:24 AM
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evaldart evaldart is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

"To me, claiming to make language-free sculpture is a bit like waving around a gun with no bullets in it.[/quote] Cheese


A sculptor doesn't need the bullets...or the gun, for that matter. He keeps his reality close...can reach it with hands. And if its a gorilla, that particular reality, then his work is cut-out for him. So it goes.

Aiming doesn't leave room for surprises. And just shootin' bullets up into the air...well, thats what Hirst is doing; a lotta damn noise.
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  #77  
Old 09-19-2008, 01:05 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
A sculptor doesn't need the bullets...or the gun, for that matter. He keeps his reality close...can reach it with hands. And if its a gorilla, that particular reality, then his work is cut-out for him. So it goes.

Aiming doesn't leave room for surprises. And just shootin' bullets up into the air...well, thats what Hirst is doing; a lotta damn noise.
Wait..wait, are we trying to shoot the gorilla or just scare him away with some loud noises? I suppose we could just trap him in one of Grommet's kinetic tactile whirligig thingies or perhaps Steven could distract him with a game of chess. I think we must ask ourselves if, in fact, the gorilla is one of suburbanartist's rich and powerful friends - in which case, I hope he quits monkeying around and just buys some of my damn art already.

Ah, give me narrative and give me depth.
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  #78  
Old 09-19-2008, 02:33 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

Evaldart,
Are you working on pieces in the immediate vicinity of making posts here?
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  #79  
Old 09-19-2008, 05:06 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Sorry, I don’t buy into hierarchies of expression
ya. me neither
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  #80  
Old 09-19-2008, 05:37 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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ya. me neither

If it makes you feel like a big shot to stand next to a poet, then go-ahead...sounds like bullying to me. If you must compare and compete, at least choose players your own "size".
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  #81  
Old 09-19-2008, 06:07 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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If it makes you feel like a big shot to stand next to a poet,
I know quite a few good poets. They are the big shots. Hearing them read is humbling.
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  #82  
Old 09-19-2008, 06:31 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

Eval – I respect a lot of what you so poetically (..and therefore ironically) write on this forum – but I don’t get this thing you have against language, poets and the ilk.

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If it makes you feel like a big shot to stand next to a poet, then go-ahead...sounds like bullying to me. If you must compare and compete, at least choose players your own "size".

Ok...if that is the case, is there also a hierarchy among sculptors? What materials have the most clout? Do some movements "outsize" others (For example, are Modernist "bigger" than Minimalists?) Are men and women divided in this ranking system? How does age factor in? Experience? Training? Sales? Quality? Quantity?

If the poets don't make the cut, what other forms of expression run with the sculptor big boys? Rock-n-rollers? Calligraphers? Ballroom Dancers? What are the factors that qualify who is in and who doesn't make the cut? You already mentioned touching with the hands as being important a few posts back. Just about all forms of expression are tactile - so it must be more than that. Give us some details.

Since I think it is an excellent topic for discussion - I, for one, will be disappointed if you fall back on the inadequacies of language to properly explain your stance or put it down to some vague gut feeling or faith in an imagined "higher humanity". Spell it out for us (it might be fun to see where we each rank!)

I am off to a fancy dinner (to celebrate a recent sale) - but I can't wait to see your response.
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  #83  
Old 09-19-2008, 09:24 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

Evaldart could be a bit subjective due to a run-in with a rogue college-ruled spiral notebook filled with prose. It tailed him for days, showing up everywhere he went, relentless. Suddenly, he screamed, backing away until he was up against the donuts with rainbow sprinkles showcase. Whimpering, he asked the sneering curled pages what they wanted from him. As a glint of sun ricocheted off the case of bearclaws, highlighting his tear-streaked face and the menacing spiral binding, the image of the notebook dissolved. His freshman Lit professor smiled uneasily and said "you left your bus pass in my classroom." And ever since then, on rainy nights during the school year, you can still hear the ghosts screaming ...

Or maybe it's just fun to argue about, could be either one...
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Last edited by grommet : 09-20-2008 at 11:22 AM.
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  #84  
Old 09-19-2008, 11:25 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

You guys are just too serious about language. Here have some fun. Read it out loud fast: When the Tweedle Beetles Battle In the Peanut Butter Bottle using Peanut Butter Paddles on the Poodle eating Noodles who Battles Tweedle Beetles in the Peanut Butter Bottle as it Bobbles in a Bowl on a Batch of Boiling Butter in the Peanut Butter Batter, where Tweedle Beetles Boggle and Blow Bubbles in the Butter where the Battle Bottle Bobbles, and it Boggles Beetles Tweedle that a Peanut Butter Paddle can battle with a Poodle when the Poodle's Eating Noodles in a Bobbing Battle Bottle in a batch of Boiling Butter on the Peanut Butter Batter during Peanut Butter Battles, THIS is what they call a Tweedle Beetle Peanut Butter Bobble Bottle Batter Boiling Bubble Butter Bowl Poodle Noodle Peanut Butter Paddle Battle
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  #85  
Old 09-19-2008, 11:31 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

Would you engrave that on a grain of rice for me, please?
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  #86  
Old 09-19-2008, 11:54 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

Well Cheese, you seem to be mixing together "forms of expression" and Art. I I dont think they have much at all to do with each other. We all here on this forum are expressing ourselves constantly, and often quite well, but it aint any kind of Art. Our Art happens somewhere else, usually a big dirty place with tools, cords, hoses and matter... and arms - not just fingers.

Everyone of us has his/her (hopefully occasionally changing) view of which Art should be accepted and which other stuff should be dismissed. I choose, these days, in the visual Arts, to seek-out works of Art that require the intensity of an entire individual (not just the braniac...the dummy too) and works that dis-require the usual contaminations and dis-inspirings that ever arrive by the regular impacting suffered under the raining-down of an overblown and over-valued co-existence with community.

This is not to say I'm anti-social, I play by the rules of my culture, I contribute in a friendly manner, I participate actively enough in my chosen area of expertise to get paid as often as I need to, I think often of other things - avocations, hobbies and pass-times - and have already handed the center of the universe over to my children....But...But I have become privy to methods of entering creative spells that diminish EVERYTHING else to nonsense...so by contrast, I find a place during the artful activity that makes "hyper-sense" and this fleeting omniscience is a sensation...one not attached at all to language and barely perceivable by the gaping wonder windows. I have found that sculptors access the hyper-sense much more readily than other creative types. We all experience it differently but if you really pay attention you will find-it in the DURING not in the AFTER.
We should all wear thousand-pound charm bracelets as intimate reminders of our super-power.

Tactile is not enough.

Philosophers and physicists do not get any hyper-sense. Just migranes.

So I laugh at the poets and posers and posturing pretenders...make light of their smithing of adjectives because I know that it is necessary to be FULLY engaged in an abjectly unrequired and unpredicted activity (no hierarchy) to authenticate an instance. Mostly life is full of inauthentic ones...but it is bred into us to find something good in those too; but it aint Art.

Last edited by evaldart : 09-20-2008 at 12:58 PM.
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  #87  
Old 09-20-2008, 01:32 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Originally Posted by cheesepaws View Post
I am off to a fancy dinner (to celebrate a recent sale) - but I can't wait to see your response.

What's this? "Fancy"? Could that be a "hierarchy" of dinner?

Why not go eat pig-food at Arby's, it's all the same right?
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  #88  
Old 09-20-2008, 05:52 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

I used to love to celebrate unusual sales with unusual meals in unusual resaurants...until the kids started getting cavities...one little whole in the head costs four times more than my favorite 64 oz butter-basted porterhouse. Damn.

But Cheese is a company man...got a good dental plan...he can get away with it.
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  #89  
Old 09-20-2008, 07:37 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Originally Posted by evaldart View Post
So I laugh at the poets and posers and posturing pretenders...make light of their smithing of adjectives because I know that it is necessary to be FULLY engaged in an abjectly unrequired and unpredicted activity (no hierarchy) to authenticate an instance. Mostly life is full of inauthentic ones...but it is bred into us to find something good in those too; but it aint Art.
Thanks for the explanation. What throws me is how certain you are: certain you can attain this state of hyper-sense, certain that poets don't "fully" engage in a similar way, and certain that being ultimately engaged is ultimately the art we all seek. Part of me envies you for your understanding of how absolutely clear the structure of art (and expression) can be.

I have found that the older I get the more and more comfortable I am with the idea of being less and less sure about things. More questions...more doubt - I like it, but realize it isn't for everyone.

Now...as far as being a "company man" - all is fair in love and art. As long a I know when to walk away I am cool cashing in on the perks!
**flashes his pearly whites**
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  #90  
Old 09-20-2008, 07:41 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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What's this? "Fancy"? Could that be a "hierarchy" of dinner?

Why not go eat pig-food at Arby's, it's all the same right?
Toupee mon frair!

(As it stands my meal was a disappointment. Arby's probably would have been a better call.)
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  #91  
Old 09-20-2008, 07:51 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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Originally Posted by cheesepaws View Post
Thanks for the explanation. What throws me is how certain you are: certain you can attain this state of hyper-sense, certain that poets don't "fully" engage in a similar way, and certain that being ultimately engaged is ultimately the art we all seek. Part of me envies you for your understanding of how absolutely clear the structure of art (and expression) can be.

I have found that the older I get the more and more comfortable I am with the idea of being less and less sure about things. More questions...more doubt - I like it, but realize it isn't for everyone.

Now...as far as being a "company man" - all is fair in love and art. As long a I know when to walk away I am cool cashing in on the perks!
**flashes his pearly whites**
Cheese, it sounds like in your maturity you are becoming just as certain as I that the questions ARE the answers (doubt is no good, though...exhibits a lack of confidence). But being "certain" is also tied to instances. Certainties change, re-create themselves, fuel your questions...your wonder. Put it all together with a thresholded bodily ruckus and you've got "pure-tinence", the defeater and thwarter of all previously understood notions. What a charge!
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  #92  
Old 09-20-2008, 10:44 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

My only advice to Evaldart is put on some Barry White and slow it down....
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  #93  
Old 09-20-2008, 11:33 AM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

Quote:
....But...But I have become privy to methods of entering creative spells that diminish EVERYTHING else to nonsense...so by contrast, I find a place during the artful activity that makes "hyper-sense" and this fleeting omniscience is a sensation...one not attached at all to language and barely perceivable by the gaping wonder windows. I have found that sculptors access the hyper-sense much more readily than other creative types. We all experience it differently but if you really pay attention you will find-it in the DURING not in the AFTER.
We should all wear thousand-pound charm bracelets as intimate reminders of our super-power.
So I'm trying to decide if I should equate this with born-again religious zealotry or the smug assurance of a teen who has discovered orgasm on their own, sure that he/she is the only one to make this self discovery in quite this way.
There have been references to Church of Evaldart, so we'll go with that for now. There will be battles with poet/sinners. Your faith will be tested.
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  #94  
Old 09-20-2008, 11:53 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

I have seen my ire taunted by equatings of my blather with religion...I recognize it as a poke, though, because many here know my feelings about religion.
Zealot, on the other hand, is a name the less-intense accuse the more-intense of being...no matter the subject. Personal priorities will decide where an individual asserts his zealotry. In ANY case its far better than a placid and waifish Apathy.

As far as Barry White goes...Cake pulled off a great cover of "Never gonna give you up". I can roll with that.
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  #95  
Old 09-20-2008, 12:25 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

Quote:
Cake pulled off a great cover of "Never gonna give you up". I can roll with that.
Love Cake, "Friend is a four letter Word", Stickshifts and Safetybelts", Race Car Ya-Yas", etc..

Quote:
I find a place during the artful activity that makes "hyper-sense" and this fleeting omniscience is a sensation...one not attached at all to language and barely perceivable by the gaping wonder windows.
I try to find how its attached to everything--expands my consciousness.

Quote:
I have found that the older I get the more and more comfortable I am with the idea of being less and less sure about things. More questions...more doubt - I like it,
"One thing is valuable in art—that which cannot be explained." (Braque) or "I know that down to the last simple detail experience is totally mysterious"(oldenburg ), "The job of the artist is always to deepen the mystery." (Francis Bacon), "All the best works of any artist must be bathed, so to speak, in mystery." (Auguste Rodin), "The aim of art is to represent not the outward appearance of things, but their inward significance, and this, and not the external manner and detail, is true reality." (Aristotle)
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  #96  
Old 09-22-2008, 09:34 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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I think we must ask ourselves if, in fact, the gorilla is one of suburbanartist's rich and powerful friends - in which case, I hope he quits monkeying around and just buys some of my damn art already..
Sorry - No Rich and powerful FRIENDS here. Just worked with and for some household names in the movies, quite a while ago.

Did anyone see a segment on him Sunday morning on one of those news shows?
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  #97  
Old 09-22-2008, 09:42 AM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

I posted these photos back in Feb..... #3 post.
This was at the Lever House Lobby in nyc.

http://www.sculpture.net/community/s...ht=lever+house

Anyone know anything about this? Seems hirst inspired, ripped off at the least. Could find no info on it.
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  #98  
Old 09-22-2008, 05:46 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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I find a place during the artful activity that makes "hyper-sense" and this fleeting omniscience is a sensation...one not attached at all to language and barely perceivable by the gaping wonder windows.
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Originally Posted by jOe~ View Post
I try to find how its attached to everything--expands my consciousness.
well that's truly something to shoot for... can normal people do it, or do you have to live on a coast???
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  #99  
Old 09-22-2008, 07:59 PM
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

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well that's truly something to shoot for... can normal people do it, or do you have to live on a coast???
Aint no "normals" round here - unless their just spectating. Sign says, "Do not feed the animals". But I get a bone now and then anyhow. Pringles just introduced a new flavor...CHEESEBURGER. Made my day. Sometimes its okay to be half cave-man.
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  #100  
Old 09-22-2008, 10:46 PM
grommet grommet is offline
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Re: Damien Hirst auction

So if no one there is "normal", then it would become the aberration. So you actually are normal in your environment... so what do you do then? So sadly lacking in uniqueness in your own environment...
Vinegar and salt chips for me please.
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