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Old 10-14-2011, 09:11 AM
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cheesepaws cheesepaws is offline
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Originally Posted by tonofelephant View Post
I hope you get the point that I am not poking you specifically you in the eye for fun. Until you as a person, who happens to be a teacher, want credibility from me, you get it through your work & actions. Not automatically since you are a teacher. Not by saying people have "uninformed opinons" that is a value-laden judgement not backed up by empirical evidence. That is an opinion on your part & til proven otherwise - an uninformed opinion on your part - which is my opinion.
Of course “empirical” evidence would include experiences from ALL spectrums of academia – student, staff, faculty…that is the background that informs MY opinion. I did not start this exchange by stating that academia is the only way or the best option for an education in the arts. My first post on this thread was a direct response to a general attack on my profession – the burden of “proof” as to the LACK of value of college art programs (and college foundries) falls squarely on Katy (or you by extension of defending her position).

Originally Posted by tonofelephant View Post
Frankly all the things you wote about what it takes to make a teacher make me yawn. That is your problem not mine. You need to know the qualifications to make your career tick & abide by them. I don't need to know what you know about academia. I only need to see the results of your actions & comments to tell me what I need to know about you.
That’s right, you don’t need to know what I know about academia/education – or what your doctor knows about medicine, or what your lawyer knows about law. We are paid professionals backed up with experience and training (ie. “informed”). I’ll state clearly here that training does not make anyone necessarily good at their job nor should any degree or title immediately validate their opinions. That said, my knowledge of academia – and it IS yawn worthy – also lets me know that claims like, “teachers knew or cared very little about the students” is not likely to be true – regardless of what you personally perceived.

Originally Posted by tonofelephant View Post
There is always more to argue about. But in the end, we are justifying our own prejudices while not dispensing with foibles & other shortcomings that hold us back as individuals, teachers & artists.
I love a good, open-minded debate but this conversation has never been about MY prejudices. Go to art school or don’t – there are TONS of ways to learn about materials, processes and all things related to art. Being an artist has never been a one-size fits all career. Across many exchanges here on the forum my opinion is always one of inclusiveness.

What really shocked me about Katy’s comments in her original post was the disregard for the students who DO thrive in academia (art majors and non-majors alike). Many art departments are constantly threatened by the potential cutting of teaching lines, reduction of facilities, and trimming of general operating budgets. The “trickle down” of dissolving arts programs is NOT more opportunities for all artists but an increased decline in the cultural value of art….meaning there will be fewer folks buying art, fewer galleries showing art, and fewer artists able to earn a living making art.

With the decline (nearly lack) of national and state funding to assist artists and the severe cutting of art education as part of a primary education, do we – AS ARTISTS – really need to help erode art as worthy of study or the cultural value of the arts by calling for the end to college art programs?!

Now....unrelated, would you be willing to PM me a ball park cost of an outdoor sculpture like you did at Sculpture on the Square in Rockville, MD? (including the custom pedestal). I'm in the early stages of building a public sculpture program at my school and including your work in my report would be helpful to illustrating the costs of sculpture across various scales and materials. The program is not likely to get funding anytime soon, but if I start the process now I am hopeful that I can get something started in the next few years.

Last edited by cheesepaws : 10-14-2011 at 03:46 PM.
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