Digital VS RL-material sculpture design.

[ShaneR]

Hey guys,

I'm new to this forum and look forward to picking your brains and becoming inspired by your picking of mine.

This is a rather long post so I ask you to please give your opinions on as much of it as possible as it addresses many topics that I think have been on many of our minds.

I've just quit my job and am looking into sculpture as a lifestyle and am open minded about the subject, I've worked on computers since I was a toddler... well I played a lot of games at that age but i also got into 3d modeling and HTML coding starting around 8ish so I guess you could say I'm "hack" when it comes to learning software by now.

So naturally when I viewed upon sculpture as a possible profession, I got stuck into learning more about both digital and traditional mediums. I got started with learning the basics of Zbrush which is the closest thing to traditional sculpting that you can get within a digital environment.
I'll talk about just the digital side first.

Whats cool:
-When you model a hand lets say, and you detail it up completely with all its skin details and so on and just stretch that finger after with little effort.
-you can apply for example fat effects on certain parts quickly and easily while keeping geometric texture and retouch the parts that didnt quite get it right,
-you can choose to work on one side of a head as the other gets updated automatically real-time,
-paint directly on the model and create the appearance of any imaginable material
-you can pose models afterwards and build reusable skeletal/anatomical structures.
-you can get cool digital tablets that allow you to draw directly on screen which makes it feel a bit more manual.
-There's an Immense amount of tools.
-you can build near perfect replica's of real world objects through scanning or photo references through projection etc,...
-You can send someone else your sculpture and let them have a go at it and see if you like their idea's without being destructive about it.
-there is no gravity
-you can record your work flow in your own point of view and review it later to analyze yourself in a different light.
-you don't need a lot of space to work or store your materials/sculptures.
-no hardening clay, no grinders, chisels, etc,..
-you will be physically fit enough to do this when you can no longer walk, this is a big issue as forcibly losing a passion in life hurts.
-you can project images onto objects to texture them.

-It's on a PC,
-It has bugs,
-You can mess up and lose your model,
-There is a large neverending learning curve,
-It's not a real object you can put on your shelf but a digital file that is easily forgotten or neglected,
-You will often find yourself working and find that there is a technicality which you must conquer(if possible) before you can proceed.

Think of a 10 foot sculpture in the center of a spiral staircase, this is almost impossible through digital means.
You can rub your hand over a real model and feel it, you lose that sense with digital sculpture, i found that i missed touching my work when i ventured into digital sculpture.

lets talk about workspace,

either your in a workshop running around grabbing various tools or your at a desk and if you have experienced it, you know that being in front of a pc 13 hours a day is not good for you. at least that's how i feel about it.

my first experiences with zbrush were full of both big uplifts and big letdowns, i would have godlike power in manipulation in some ways, and little and/or bogged down control in others.

ultimatly what this question comes down to is self motivation because it is the biggest factor in becoming truly great. sofar im leaning towards real world sculpture when it comes to that, I remember welding a head that took me just under 50 hours and hours felt like minutes and i was so pepped up about it i could go on forever without tiring, but when im infront of a pc I find it tiring, I'll be working for 4 hours and drop it because it somehow gets boring to me.

I think the reason for that lies within the very core mechanics
lets say i want to make a nose slightly longer and detail the skin in zbrush vs clay.
zbrush:
-I go to the tool pallet, pickup the standard tool, set the intensity and smoothness of the brush.
-i begin brushing on material onto the nose to make it bigger, going back and forth between a negative intensity to take away material and a positive value to add material.
-when I'm happy with the shape I will grab the smooth tool and adjust its parameters and smooth it out.
-I'll check if i have enough polygons in the model to add detail and if not subdivide the polygons if my pc can handle it, if it cant I likely have to restart.
-then after i subdivide i go through various brushes and brush settings to add detail.

you can really make a gorgeous amount of detail in zbrush as you can scale your model onscreen and edit it at levels otherwise impossible IF you have enough polygons to spare.

clay
-slap on some extra clay.
-shape it with my hands.
-add details by tools/hands.

This would argue that traditional kicks digital's ass to put it bluntly.

but when it comes to drawing 2d, i find that photoshop combined with a wacom tablet reigns supreme over pretty much all traditional mediums; this is interesting to me because I've been using photoshop almost daily since i was a toddler and dont even think about what tools i grab and so on, could it be that i could achieve that same level of ZEN with zbrush as i have achieved within photoshop? or is zbrush just not cutting the butter in sculpting as photoshop does in drawing? I tend to think the latter, but i might still change my mind.

about digital to real life and the other way around:

you can have objects scanned in other words converted to digital models,
you could even build a mirror box that allows you to take one photo that shows all views of a subject from various angles at thesame time allowing you to recreate a subject quite accuratly at a better price.

printing, there's cnc, there's sandbox printing... both of these have a size limitation, printing of synthetic material is even moving further and into colour which is very interesting but it does have a texture which may or may not be desirable, as it could rob you of alot of crucial fine detail.
sandbox printing is possible in steel alloys these days as well.

some things work very well with digital/printed sculptures such as geometric sculptures, as you can create complex mathematical shapes and print them fairly accurately which would be a nightmare in traditional mediums.

How do you feel about these subjects? I'm desperately trying to make up my mind but somehow my coin of thought wont stop spinning and pick a side.

excuse the rough writeup, I'd usually make another few passes and clean it up but i gotta run, thank you for your time and i look forward to reading your input :)

[GlennT]

Come out and play in the real world!

[StevenW]

Just do both, one will compliment the other and you'll just grow both sides from it. If you're worried about stewing in mediocrity by splitting your efforts then you'll just have to find out which is more dominant and go with it. I have largely abandoned 3d in the last 8 or 9 years (started in the Ray Dream days) in favor of stone, but I still keep up the 3D skills and am looking forward to Modo 401..

[Harryman]

Sculpting is sculpting no matter what tools you use. I agree that learning and becoming proficient in RL, traditional sculpting is very important as the techniques you will learn there will easily translate to digital and there's many more educational opportunities available. Digital is just another and powerful tool, I don't think it's really necessary to have to choose one or the other. Use whatever fits the needs of the project.

[interferens]

Personally I think a painting done in Photoshop can be as good as one done on canvas, and I have no problem applying the same to 3D and computer fabricated objects.

I've done a bit of 3D work, and I'd love to have access to rapid protyping/manufacturing techniques. I'm turning towards simpler objects but working a lot with finishes and surfaces, so I'd love to have a part of the job done by a machine, work it bit by hand and maybe mix the qualities of digital and manual work, and then be ready to start my surface work.

[evaldart]

Your sweat and blood should puddle on the floor at the base of your Art...the more of those essential fluids there are down there the better. If you can make this happen by clicking a mouse, then you're all right. If not, save the computer for entertainment, "phone"calls and spreadsheets; and go get dirty.

[StevenW]

the more of those essential fluids there are down there the better..

I thought I'd heard this someplace before. :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47wZkFmSGVw&feature=related

[LimeCutter]

The fact that on a PC it's a 'virtual' environment should tell you something. It's not real and although it gives the illussion of being 3d - it isn't. So you end up using techniques to create something that appears to be three dimensional, you can spin it round, mold it, stretch it, scale it, all sorts of things - but until it is realised in some tangible, touchable form it remains 3D only in effect. It occupies no space, and you can't interact with it in terms of a connection between spacial entities (i.e your physical space moving within it's space - and this is something fundamental to appreciating sculpture).

I use a number of methods to inspire and form my sculptural works, one of which is 3D modelling on my PC. But it is all done with a view to realising that object in physical space. In a sense I create it several times: in my head, on paper, on PC all with the end goal in mind of creating a physical piece.

You cannot substitute the impact of being in the presence of physical sculpture.

Use it as a tool but not the end product or consider it a seperate art form of non-phyiscal sculpture, and therein lies the 'massive' and fundamental difference: mass and physical presence.

My advice only.

[Andrew Werby]

While I agree with Dan to a certain extent - yes, it's not a real object while it only exists in the computer - still you are determining everything about it that is necessary to produce a real object. Maybe you need to start working on the next step - making these digital constructs into actual physical things.

For me, that was what made this exciting; when I could hold something in my hand that I had wrenched from the virtual world - pulled through the Looking-Glass, as it were. If you're a hands-on sort, CNC milling might be for you. It allows you to choose the materials, control the process, and do it all yourself in your studio. This gives you a chance to get up from your chair and also get into the interplay between the intention and the result that gives life to art. If you're not totally satisfied with the result you get when the machine carves it out, you can continue to carve it by hand, or paint it, or mold it, or combine it with something else in a different material.

Small CNC mills are pretty affordable, and if you're really handy you can even build them yourself. But if that's not for you, you can send your STL files off to a service bureau and have them built in plastic, or to someone with a CNC machine and have them carved in the material of your choice. This isn't to say that a virtual sculpture isn't a valid final art form - it certainly can be defended as such - but if that doesn't satisfy you, it might be time to take this to the next level.

Andrew Werby
www.computersculpture.com