Latest Mars photos are amazing

[RuBert]

I must admit I'm currently somewhat obsessed with the Mars mission and the photos that are coming back. This one was posted today and the spheres (pebbles) are amazing. I cropped and posted it here from the NASA site before the general press releases it, and it seems relevant to other discussions about spherical shapes and Mars. To me the shapes must of been created by a water action, but that remains to be proven. More data will be coming soon from the probes.

[RuBert]

And here is another photo that shows clear layering and a undercut.

[Araich]

Where on nasa's site did you see these?
I'm also wrapped up in the whole thing, logging in every morning, and frustrated by the crappy news coverage.

[jwebb]

Small amounts of steel spilled from ladles inside a vacuum chamber will form perfect spheres like those shown. I don't understand the mechanics of it in terms of crystal growth, etc., but it seems to be a shape that Nature likes to make. In the Powder Metal Industry, this phenomenon is used to make the product: Alloy is melted under a vacuum and dribbled out to form perfect spherical "beebees", which then can be compressed into molds by Hot Isostatic Pressing.

[RuBert]

Small amounts of steel spilled from ladles inside a vacuum chamber will form perfect spheres like those shown.

Yes and bullets were first formed by dropping hot lead through the air - and the lead would form a sphere before it hit the water below to cool.

So the general theory is that these shapes may be volcanic in origin. But the visual data looks like water to me, and I may well be wrong as I'm just going from a long fascination with sea stones. They will do some more mineral image tests later this week that may confirm one of the theories over the other.

[RuBert]

Where on nasa's site did you see these?
I'm also wrapped up in the whole thing, logging in every morning, and frustrated by the crappy news coverage.

My favorite site is http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html

They have a section that contains all the raw photos from Spirit and Opportunity to date. It is amazing to have access to the raw data at nearly the same time as the NASA scientists are getting it. The photos are added from all cameras each day.

[RuBert]

The latest layer photo close-up. The level of detail coming from these cameras is incredible.

[RuBert]

There are some very weird kinds of inclusions going on in this rock - I can see at least three very regular shapes in this rock face.

[JAZ]

Yes and bullets were first formed by dropping hot lead through the air - and the lead would form a sphere before it hit the water below to cool.

So the general theory is that these shapes may be volcanic in origin. But the visual data looks like water to me, and I may well be wrong as I'm just going from a long fascination with sea stones. They will do some more mineral image tests later this week that may confirm one of the theories over the other.

RuBert,
Thanks for posting these. They are incredible!
My son lives in Iceland, so I've been there three times so far. I brought back some perfectly round stones from there that are thought to be the result of molten rock spewing out of a volcano, then spinning as it hits the water. (I also have a rock from there with a small triangular hole in it that goes all the way through.)

[RuBert]

The triangular hole sounds really unique. My nephew lived in Iceland for about ten years and has interesting stories about life there and the unworldly quality of the light.

The latest Mars photos showing strange inclusions have me wondering if they might be a fossil of some kind? Why are the pebbles part of the bedrock? Opportunity is in a crater, so there was an impact explosion, but still...

[fritchie]

Russ and others - Spherical shapes like this are typical of essentially all liquids because of the phenomenon of surface tension. A small particle of any liquid, free of gravity even temporarily because it is flying through the air for instance, will take on a spherical form.

Take a drop of water for example - the water molecules hold onto each other with quite a strong force, and that is why water or any other liquid has to be heated to separate the molecules into a vapor. In a solid, the molecules are free enough to bounce against each other in one location but not free enough to move far from that spot. So, the shape on a large scale reflects the most or less arbitrary way they are arranged. In a liquid, attraction keeps molecules more or less the same distance from one another, but each molecule can wander anywhere within the drop. Since they all are clinging together, they take on the shape with the smallest surface - to volume ratio, a sphere.

When I first saw some of these spheres yesterday, my reaction was that they probably resulted from melting of the meteor that formed the crater. The NASA comment was that they might have been melted particles from volcanos. (In either case, the melted rock would have cooled while in the thin Martian air, and frozen into a shape nearly spherical.) Mars’ surface atmospheric pressure is about 0.7% that of the Earth, so any bits of molten rock would cool and freeze almost in a vacuum, and keep the spherical shape as they solidify.

These pictures certainly are exciting, and this is just the tip of the iceberg, as they say.

[RuBert]

When I first saw some of these spheres yesterday, my reaction was that they probably resulted from melting of the meteor that formed the crater. The NASA comment was that they might have been melted particles from volcanos. (In either case, the melted rock would have cooled while in the thin Martian air, and frozen into a shape nearly spherical.)

These pictures certainly are exciting, and this is just the tip of the iceberg, as they say.

This inclusion is round, but more like the shape of a thick coin. Do you know if the melting process could of caused that? And to me it almost looks like a frosty coating is on the bedrock.

[sculptor]

Thanx for the links:
I am delighted that the mars exploration is proceeding, and entertained by the photos and speculations------
so........
I went to where I had been welding and cutting with the torch, and scratched through the rubble on the floor and shure'nuff
lots of little spheres all less than 3/16 inch----the debris only fell about 5-6 feet
(wild guess)----Araich should be able to find the same at his feet.
(another wild guess) with a greater fall distance, the spheres would likely be larger.
sound accurate?

rod(sculptor)

[RuBert]

Thanx for the links:
I went to where I had been welding and cutting with the torch, and scratched through the rubble on the floor and shure'nuff
lots of little spheres all less than 3/16 inch----the debris only fell about 5-6 feet

Yes I've got little round pieces of metal on my Studio floor also - mostly from the plasma cutter.

The round shapes in the rock and on the rock faces is what has me going.

I'm sure I could be wrong, it wouldn't be the first or last time for that, but it looks like potential indicators of life to me. I feel like I'm crazy for thinking that, but I've been to several volcanic areas before and this is unusual. The round shapes are attached to and included in the rock all over the place. And they sure don't look like they have that glassy sheen of some volcanic beads.

No NASA info about this yet, in fact the press is all about volcanic rock.

[RuBert]

Just in from NASA is the following description:

The first outcrop rock Opportunity examined up close is finely-layered, buff-colored and in the process of being eroded by windblown sand. "Embedded in it like blueberries in a muffin are these little spherical grains," said Dr. Steve Squyres of Cornell University, Ithaca, N.Y., principal investigator for the rovers' scientific instruments. Microscopic images show the gray spheres in various stages of being released from the rock.

"This is wild looking stuff," Squyres said. "The rock is being eroded away and these spherical grains are dropping out." The spheres may have formed when molten rock was sprayed into the air by a volcano or a meteor impact. Or, they may be concretions, or accumulated material, formed by minerals coming out of solution as water diffused through rock, he said.

The main task for both rovers in coming weeks and months is to explore the areas around their landing sites for evidence in rocks and soils about whether those areas ever had environments that were watery and possibly suitable for sustaining life.

[JAZ]

RuBert,
Do you have any idea of the scale of the forms - how big the spheres are?

[RuBert]

RuBert,
Do you have any idea of the scale of the forms - how big the spheres are?

Well in this close-up the examined patch of soil is 3 centimeters (1.2 inches) across. The circular grain in the lower left corner is approximately 3 millimeters (.12 inches) across, or about the size of a sunflower seed.

So I think blueberry size for the bigger ones we have seen so far and much smaller than that for the small ones.

[RuBert]

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040209a/MERB_DIMES_LOCALIZE_C-B016R1_br.jpg
This is the lucky trajectory of the bouncing landing that ended up in the crater.

[Araich]

That is bizarre. What are the odds?

[RuBert]

I can't believe it bounced that far.

And speaking of possible weird rock formations on earth (that might have at least some relevance in form to sculptors, and to the Mars rocks) - I was looking at Concretions and came across this:

CONCRETIONS FROM IMPERIAL VALLEY, CALIFORNIA

[anne (bxl)]

Concretions (addition of material) and erosions (taking off material), both creates sculpture. No other art is so close from nature.

this piece has been directly mold from a piece of wood. my only intervention was to clean it up and add the chains.

[JAZ]

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20040209a/MERB_DIMES_LOCALIZE_C-B016R1_br.jpg
This is the lucky trajectory of the bouncing landing that ended up in the crater.
The lucky trajectory looks like a Tiger Woods shot and those concretions are certainly weirder than any of the Mars forms so far. And in a way they bring to mind the Venus of Willendorf (sp?).

[RuBert]

Anne (bxl) what is the size of your piece, and the original wood is gone now or still around?

[RuBert]

This is tonight's picture of interest to me anyway because of the ridge at the top of the photo - could be another indication of water, or just wind formed I suppose.

[anne (bxl)]

Anne (bxl) what is the size of your piece, and the original wood is gone now or still around?
the size of the piece is 30 x 38 cm. the original is back to nature somewhere.

[fritchie]

I can't believe it bounced that far.

And speaking of possible weird rock formations on earth (that might have at least some relevance in form to sculptors, and to the Mars rocks) - I was looking at Concretions and came across this:

CONCRETIONS FROM IMPERIAL VALLEY, CALIFORNIA

These concretions look like "fossil" worm holes to me. The straight portion would be the entrance, and the globular part the “resting place” of the worm. They would be formed as the empty hole or burrow would be slowly filled with silt or dust, cemented over time by salts dissolved in penetrating moisture. I’m guessing that the “stems” on the pieces are about 1 to 4 inches long (they could be broken during extraction or simply over time). Is this about right?

[fritchie]

Well in this close-up the examined patch of soil is 3 centimeters (1.2 inches) across. The circular grain in the lower left corner is approximately 3 millimeters (.12 inches) across, or about the size of a sunflower seed.

So I think blueberry size for the bigger ones we have seen so far and much smaller than that for the small ones.

In this 3 cm. picture of Russ', with the 3 mm. or blueberry sized sphere, there are also a couple of smaller grains with “bites” removed that look very much like tiny fragments of pumice or volcanic dust.

This stuff can be so filled with holes that a chunk of it will float on water. In my earlier posts, I honestly was forgetting the small size of these grains. It would be hard for wind-driven dust to chip or degloss something as shiny as an Earth-formed tektite. At the same time, the Earth’s atmosphere is so much more dense, the polish on tektites probably is generated by atmospheric heating, and this gloss might be much less in Mars’ thin atmosphere. A dull surface might be the norm, even for spheroids of meteoric or volcanic origin.

[fritchie]

This inclusion is round, but more like the shape of a thick coin. Do you know if the melting process could of caused that? And to me it almost looks like a frosty coating is on the bedrock.

Russ - A flattened or elongated sphere theoretically could be produced if the globule of molten rock froze while being violently agitated during its fall, but these things probably rotate pretty rapidly, and that explanation is unlikely. More likely, I would say, is that irregular spheroids of the type you suggest would come from tumbling in a stream of some liquid. The frosting you describe probably is the result of sunlight and shade.

People have argued that liquids other than water might have produced the Martian channels, but I think that is a stretch. My guess is that water is the responsible agent for the large channels, and that could have produced irregular spheroids. Of course, we basically are talking about sand grains here, but even rounded sand grains result from water action on larger particles.

A key fact will be the composition. So far, NASA has said nothing about the mineral or atomic composition of these spheres, but the X-alpha spectrometer, the Mossbauer spectrometer, and the multispectral photographs can provide this information. I’m assuming they want to take their time before making pronouncements on these results. After all, these robots are the product of probably a dozen or so years’ work by the major players, and they have the right to be careful in their analyses. The results should be worth the wait, however they come out.

I find it great that this artistic community is expressing such interest in these missions. Of course, artists generally are the people who interpret new experiences for the population at large.

[fritchie]

Here are three pictures put up by NASA on Thursday. Spirit’s memory problem was repaired by then, and it is moving to check out a nearby crater itself. The first picture shows tracks left behind as it moved from its landing pad. The second shows wildly sculpted, layered rocks and a field of sand dunes. The third picture is from Opportunity, with more of those rounded pebbles.

If you look closely at the third picture, you can see some pebbles almost covered, barely peeking out of the grit. Some are pocked with holes and look as though they were formed from spongy volcanic rock. A large one near the middle of the picture looks like it might be about to split in half. This one might have come from a sedimentary, layered rock, but since they all are of similar size and shape, they probably are made of the same material.

Odd as it sounds, because basalt is quite hard, it’s beginning to look to me as though these pebbles are volcanic in origin. They might have formed as small spheroids during eruptions, and then had these surfaces eroded by rolling across sharp volcanic sand. The problem,, though, is how a large, hard pebble could be eroded by sandy particles of the same material. Altogether, as Russ said, this is a fascinating expedition to watch.

On a side note, as NASA gets so many new pictures each day, it has reformulated its web presentation. These pictures are from a tabular index (http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/) of each day’s pictures, sorted by camera. I find pictures from the panoramic camera, with an occasional closeup from the microscopic imager, most revealing.

[JAZ]

This is tonight's picture of interest to me anyway because of the ridge at the top of the photo - could be another indication of water, or just wind formed I suppose.

The square forms in that photo are also interesting. Natural geometry. I've seen cracks in rock shelves under streams resulting in squares of rock like that. Funny how water can make things round or square. Reading Fritchie's and your comments I'm impressed by how much you both know about geology.
Attached is a photo I stumbled across in an old National Geographic when looking for something else. It was taken in New Zealand. The caption: " The South Island's Moeraki Boulders, spherical lime salt concretions formed on the seafloor millions of years ago, have eroded from cliffs thrust up by tectonic action."

[fritchie]

Here's another recent photo of the small pebbles in the Meridiani crater. This grouping looks very much like gravel on a beach or in a stream. The rock-bits, whatever they are, appear more irregular in this sampling, and that increases the suggestion that they are eroded from larger rock pieces, and may not be tektites after all. On the other hand, Martian volcanos might emit smaller bits of rock under certain conditions. The lower pressure could make expansion more rapid, and the resulting fragments smaller.

This is about a fifth of a larger photo, clipped so as not to impose on the forum.

[RuBert]

Just in from Nasa -

NASA (news - web sites)'s Opportunity rover sent back new images from Mars showing that small spheres previously found on the surface also exist below, in a trench the rover dug. Hints of salty water were also found in the trench, but much more analysis is needed to learn the true composition.

Meanwhile Opportunity's twin rover, Spirit, is about to dig a trench of its own in order to investigate soil that sticks to its wheels, suggesting the fine-grained material might be moist.

In a press conference today, officials said the soil at both locations could contain small amounts of water mixed with salt in a brine that can exist in liquid form at very low temperatures.

The scientists stressed that only miniscule amounts of water would be needed to create the brine.

[fritchie]

Russ - I, too, just saw a NASA presentation, by the lead scientist, Steve Squyres of Cornell, on the Lehrer News report. He didn’t mention the possibility of brine, but gave the best discussion I have heard to date about the possibilities for formation of those spherules. He mentioned three possibilities, the first of which I had never heard before.

Evidently under some conditions, such as at Pompeii, volcanic ash can form these things as it falls, like raindrops and without melting completely. The second possibility is spheres formed by complete melting of rock, either from volcanos or from meteorites. And the third is the one I think you first brought up - concretions. These are formed, like pearls in an oyster, when a tiny solid grain of some sort attracts and precipitates solids from surrounding liquid, in this case probably briny water.

Progress certainly will be interesting to watch.

[fritchie]

Here's part of an Opportunity microscope image I just clipped, from today's postings (Feb. 22). It's a Sol 28 image, probably part of one of the rock outcroppings they currently are studying. It shows one of the spheroidal forms, but this one seems to be having a baby.

It’s hard to see how this can be anything other than a concretion, though I suppose it could be one of those “Pompeii, solid raindrops”, if two coalesced while falling. It surely isn’t a single bit of solidified molten rock, though, once more, a rare coalescence of two molten bits might produce this. All these options really show how careful the scientists will have to be in drawing conclusions.

The background seems to be part of the eroded rock surface which is shown better in other images. These eroded shapes seem to me to have been produced by dissolution of the rock in a liquid (water?), but, again, the experts will have to rule.

[RuBert]

These eroded shapes seem to me to have been produced by dissolution of the rock in a liquid (water?), but, again, the experts will have to rule.

I've seen a similar coating on rocks in Japan, but it's been several years ago, and I'm going to have to do some digging to come up with the name of the place.

But what do you all think of this photo today! To me it looks like the squiggle of a worm, but it is rather hard to see, so I put a circle around it. Probably a natural process could of caused it, and perhaps Charles would know, as I don't.

[jwebb]

I am endlessly fascinated by the geology here on earth, and my house - as a small visitor said one day "...is full of piles of rocks". But I guess I am in a minority here as I think we should leave Mars, the moon, and all, the hell alone.

[RuBert]

And leave all the biggest questions of the universe unanswered? To me such a philosophy is as sad as a world without art. The day the asteroid from space strikes us all down I hope we are not still in a cave (metaphorically speaking) contemplating the shadows on the wall.

[jwebb]

I think it is the height of arrogance that humans think they have any idea what the most important questions in the universe are, let alone the answers to them. We have a miserable record of unceasing injustice to one another, Wars, greed and avarice, fouling of our own planet's atmosphere, oceans and the food-chain that supports us, and clearly apparent inability to control ourselves or stop lieing about it. I've looked at Saturn through a fairly big telescope and it's one of the most breathtakingly beautiful sights I've ever seen. I pray our puny race keep our hands off it.

[RuBert]

I would love to go to Saturn, but will never get the chance, that's for sure. So it is obvious that we disagree over the value of the space program and sending probes to other planets. I do think you have a valid point about the fouling of our own planet.

This kind of stuff works its way into my own sculpture, which is why I am so interested in it. I did also once help with some early software simulations for NASA and had a chance to meet some of the real pioneers, and even helped design a logo for one of the flights. So I'm certainly somewhat bias in my fascination.

[fritchie]

But what do you all think of this photo today! To me it looks like the squiggle of a worm, but it is rather hard to see, so I put a circle around it. Probably a natural process could of caused it, and perhaps Charles would know, as I don't.

Russ - I see two of these “worms” in this image, and a possible third, and I have added small circles to show the two more obvious ones, though my graphic tools are not as good as yours. I took time out to check the NASA site, and found the original images: Opportunity microscope images from sol 30, most likely, but I’m not sure which one.

I was puzzled at first, because they remind me of extrusions such as you might see from an icing tube for a cake, but the twist clearly is odd. Looking at the whole image, which is of a part of one of the rocks ground away by the “rat” abrasion tool, I now think they were produced by the act of grinding. The more obvious one, near the center of your circle, is in a small cavity that probably was part of the original rock, or may have been a softer part of the rock that abraded away in a different fashion. The one to lower right also is in a cavity of sorts, but a smaller one. I’m not sure of the exact shape of the grinding teeth or how they fit together, but I suspect these “worms’ were produced by a soft but sticky part of the rock getting caught in the mechanism and coming out twisted like that, dropping into the cavity at the same time.

I do feel it likely that some sort of single-cell life might be present, or have been present on Mars, but multi-cell life such as a worm was an enormous evolutionary advance on Earth, and at this point I doubt such an advance took place on Mars. Of course, these statements represent nothing more than somewhat educated guesses.

On a different note, some of these images show one or two of the small spheroids ground partly in two by the “rat”, and the interiors are more or less featureless. I don’t know much about concretions on Earth, but I would suspect that concentric growth rings might be common, similar to annual rings in a tree trunk. Absence of rings seems to me more to suggest that one of the two alternate explanations is more likely. Again, this conflicting piece of evidence shows why experts in the field are the ones to draw conclusions. The rest of us are having a great ride!

[fritchie]

I was away for a while, generating the post on the "worms", but I have to comment on jwebb's post above. Humans can only designate the questions most important to us, but it seems to me we clearly have not only the right but also the obligation to do just that. How else are we to find direction?

[RuBert]

I was puzzled at first, because they remind me of extrusions such as you might see from an icing tube for a cake, but the twist clearly is odd. Looking at the whole image, which is of a part of one of the rocks ground away by the “rat” abrasion tool, I now think they were produced by the act of grinding. The more obvious one, near the center of your circle, is in a small cavity that probably was part of the original rock, or may have been a softer part of the rock that abraded away in a different fashion. The one to lower right also is in a cavity of sorts, but a smaller one. I’m not sure of the exact shape of the grinding teeth or how they fit together, but I suspect these “worms’ were produced by a soft but sticky part of the rock getting caught in the mechanism and coming out twisted like that, dropping into the cavity at the same time.!

You may well be right with that theory. I also thought about the possibility of the rock grinding mechanism causing that, as it first looked like the shavings that might come from drilling metal with the right drill bit and pressure.

The nature of the rock seems softer than I would expect bedrock to be, and yet the spheres are embedded in the rock so securely they can be ground in half and not be knocked out.

I have no idea what they will find as they get to the close examination of layers, but I'm surprised at the variety of forms in the rocks so far.

I wonder if they have any way of assessing the hardness of the rocks they work with. In a class I once took (environmental geology), I remember comparing relative hardness of rocks to fingernail, metal, glass, etc. to help determine the composition of similar looking rocks.

[fritchie]

You may well be right with that theory. I also thought about the possibility of the rock grinding mechanism causing that, as it first looked like the shavings that might come from drilling metal with the right drill bit and pressure.

The nature of the rock seems softer than I would expect bedrock to be, and yet the spheres are embedded in the rock so securely they can be ground in half and not be knocked out.

... [deletins] ...

When I first saw the close-ups of these weathered bedrocks, I was struck with the similarity to Earth's carbonates. Of course, carbonate in quantity would be a good indicator of standing water, and finding that would be revolutionary. I suspect that is what these pictures indicate, and the NASA people are being very conservative about saying so, waiting for excellent confirmation before making a formal announcement.

Of course, they chose this site for evidence of crystalline hematite, an iron oxide which also typically forms in standing water. I know essentially nothing about hematite formation, but their earlier reports show it present mostly in the granular or sandy material lying above the bedrock. So far, I think they have said nothing about the composition of the bedrock.

The original Antarctic meteorite that led to NASA’s announcement about possible life on Mars, ALH 84001, I think, had carbonate embedded between volcanic or metamorphic mineral grains, and this carbonate was part of the evidence of life. Many sea creatures, such as oysters and clams, produce carbonate shells. (The evidence was much more substantive than this; this was simply part of the record.)

One of the criticisms of the “life” hypothesis” was that the carbonate in the Martian meteorite contains lots of iron, whereas carbonate on Earth mainly contains calcium, or calcium and magnesium. Of course, Mars has iron on the surface in abundance, so that might be an explanation for the difference.

As you say, the spheroids are held tightly in this rock, but NASA said early on that the spheroids seemed be weathering out of these rocks, and I agree from the photographic evidence. Carbonates on Earth typically come in the form of limestone or chalk (as in the White Cliffs of Dover), and that certainly could hold these materials tightly, but release them on weathering. One obvious conclusion is that the spherical particles are harder than the base rock, because they survive the weathering. As I said, this is a great game to “Monday morning quarterback”.

[fritchie]

Generally I don't like replying to my own messages, but I finally got curious enough about this "gray hematite" or "crystalline hematite" that was one of the main reasons Opportunity was targeted at Meridiani Planum, I looked it up on Google. Here are two pictures of Earth “gray or crystalline hematite”. The first, which shows a grouping of spherical forms protruding from a more or less flat surface, is totally natural, and is called botryoidal or grapelike hematite for these bunches of partial spheres. The second picture is of a sphere artificially ground from a large crystal.

Here’s the source (http://www.mineralminers.com/html/hemmins.stm) of these images.

The first sample is an inch or so across, and the sphere is a couple of inches across, I believe. The natural, botryoidal material has a certain resemblance to the spheroids in the Opportunity pictures, and at least carries the suggestion that these Opportunity “blueberries” might be crystalline hematite. If they are, the Opportunity spectrometers should make this clear. The audience at large will have to wait for NASA to release its official judgement.

[Araich]

It would seem the vote has gone to concretions, and enough water to splash about in.

I for one hope the US continues it's space program. I find it inspiring and eminently worthwhile, and even suspect it is driving my fascination with the sphere/gravitational-mass in my work currently.

[fritchie]

I have to pick this up again, now that NASA’s analysis of the Opportunity site has been out a few days. I made an extensive Google search for images of jarosite, the only specifically identified iron mineral at that location, but all I found were copyrighted, so I didn’t copy any to post here. A couple of NASA-related sites, including Cornell, had copies, but they may have gotten specific permission.

Essentially, it is a pale to deep yellow, or possibly orangish, mineral that typically forms in small, flaky crystals, nothing like the microscope images posted to date. The identity is certain, though, because the Mossbauer spectrometer is quite specific as to mineral type.

Basically, NASA has described the Opportunity site in Meridiani Planum as a fossil hot spring, sort of like the geyser area at Yellowstone, but no longer active. They say that they cannot at this point estimate the last period of activity. One thing that has become clear to me, and is a bit of disappointment, as far as life is concerned, is that this site, and possibly most of Mars, is quite deficient in carbonate rock. On Earth, that is present almost worldwide as a result of billions of years of biologic activity in widespread oceans.

This fossil spring on Mars has its most Earthlike analogy at locations for mining base metals such as iron, nickel, chromium, and so on. The bedrock outcrop at Meridiani is said to be largely anhydrous (non water containing) magnesium sulfate, a close relative of Epsom salts, and sulfate seems to be a major feature in the area. Sulfates on Earth generally form by air oxidation of sulfur associated with metal deposits, as in mines. Something similar may have happened on Mars, but without the air (oxygen). Earth’s surface has been restructured over eons by life, and that process clearly has had minimal effect on Mars. That doesn’t mean life isn’t or wasn’t present, just that it has had a much smaller geological effect.

[RuBert]

http://content.collegemix.com/pictures/56b8d53daab013aeac399b3782d4ab5c.jpg

Hey look, water was found on Mars!

[RuBert]

That picture cracks me up.

Charles has added some great observations, and I think we as a group had come to some of the same conclusions way before the NASA announcement yesterday.

The story on these spherical shapes is not over, and I still believe we have some of the best science yet to come from this crater. I especially want to know more about how these shapes were formed and what the composition turns out to be. I had heard as Charles mentioned that previous Mars data had failed to turn up Calcium Carbonate, and there certainly is not the vast amounts of it as on earth, but the discovery of even small amounts with the more sensitive instruments they have there now will be significant.

My guess is that it they are able to uncover signs of life in this crater it will be from about a billion years ago. Lets see, I may live to be a hundred if very lucky, don't get cancer, and stay in the best of health, but the concept of time on such a geologic level is almost abstract by definition to us humans.

I'm not sure how all this affects my sculpture, but I'm a tree hugger, and wondering about what environmental science will comes from this. There is criticism that we should be exploring our own oceans first.

[fritchie]

Russ - On carbonate, the orbiting spacecraft have found a widespread signature of carbonate, but (as yet) they haven’t been able to quantify it. Carbon dioxide from the atmosphere easily could attach to surface rock in trace amounts, and that might explain the data to date. I had thought from erosion patterns that the bedrock here might be carbonate, but no such luck.

In a different angle, NASA has posted microscopic pictures of the ground portion of Humphrey (sp?) from Gusev, and the white specks within remaining holes are interpreted as POSSIBLE salty, dust residue from penetration and evaporation of water. This is highly tentative, and they are looking for better evidence. The ground surface in some of the pictures does cleanly show individual crystals within the rock, sort of like marble or granite on Earth. The work overall is very professional and exciting to watch.

[Araich]

As an aside, I believe that international convention allows the use of copyright material for non-commercial discussion, critique and educational purposes. I feel we are able to use images and text here, credited and unaltered, without stepping on anyones toes.

[fritchie]

As an aside, I believe that international convention allows the use of copyright material for non-commercial discussion, critique and educational purposes. I feel we are able to use images and text here, credited and unaltered, without stepping on anyones toes.

Thanks for this information and perspective, Araich. The Internet, and Web, have changed things radically, and I’m really not sure of the legal state. I felt people could do their own searches if they wanted, though it clearly would be easier if I put a clip here. I know U. S. law from a few years back, at least, allowed out-of-print or difficult-to-obtain material to be copied for educational and limited other uses, but I was hesitant to go essentially worldwide with this.

It would be educational to see other perspectives on this, especially from someone who might have technical knowledge.

[fritchie]

Awhile back I posted pictures of Earth hematite, the iron-bearing mineral that sent NASA to the Opportunity exploration site in Meridiani Planum, and said the spherules al least could be of that material. Today NASA announced real data saying that hematite probably is the main mineral. They also remark that the “blueberries” really are closer in size to BB’s, probably about 1 mm. diameter instead of about 6 - 10.

The following is from an automated informational email. I expect the same announcement is on the NASA web site.

“Individual spherules are too small to analyze with the composition-reading tools on the rover. In the past week, those tools were used to examine a group of berries that had accumulated close together in a slight depression atop a rock called "Berry Bowl." The rover's Moessbauer spectrometer, which identifies iron-bearing minerals, found a big difference between the batch of spherules and a "berry-free" area of the underlying rock.

"This is the fingerprint of hematite, so we conclude that the major iron-bearing mineral in the berries is hematite," said Daniel Rodionov, a rover science team collaborator from the University of Mainz, Germany. On Earth, hematite with the crystalline grain size indicated in the spherules usually forms in a wet environment.”

[RuBert]

Well the hematite is why they were drawn to that site in the first place. I bet no one expected it to be in little spheres though. It will be interesting to learn how this plays into the question of how they were created.

On another note, apparently the earth was about hit by a 100 foot asteroid today. It came within 26,500 miles and could be seen in some parts of the world. I haven't heard an estimate of what damage that would of caused if it hit, but I imagine it would of caused quite an explosion.

[jwebb]

How long until some jackass stakes a claim and opens up the first martian hematite mine?

[fritchie]

Russ - I saw that announcement both today and yesterday when it still was a prediction. That is about a tenth the distance to the moon, and only three times the Earth's diameter, so it was close, but astronomers were confident from first viewing that it would miss. I think a hundred-foot asteroid is pretty small, and wouldn’t cause much damage unless it hit a heavily populated area, but I haven’t looked at damage estimates lately.

The NASA robots do continue to send back great data. I think the Opportunity probe, the one with “blueberry “ experience, is about to leave its home crater and start roving. Be interesting to see what else it finds. Meanwhile, Spirit will not enter its neighboring crater, but will wander further on new trails itself.