View Full Version : 10.000 words and a thesis?...!
05-15-2003, 06:17 PM
Well, thanks for inviting me here again. Wether I am correct or I misread all the comments, I see people tormented by something, different at times. Now lets try "clearing" the way of understanding what is it we are really talking about. It seems to me that we have an army of things with names liks: corporation, magazine, public art, whatever. If anyone looks into what is debated here we can see at first site a wall of things that create a feeling of defeat! Is a cover of a magazine really going to dictate our direction in life? (even if the depiction of the art work is inspiring), Is anyone amoung you guys doing your work because of the "public" demand, or to please somebody at the top of the corporate america/western world tower? Does it impact that much your lives? If yes, then you are in the wrong business and it appears to me at least, that the "general" trend is working by "impulse" and not working at your call in life. Well, I may not know a lot about Art yet it sounds like some people are having a miserable life out there, and they maybe waisting their energy. I can't speek for someone else, that's a fact. I simply can't believe that one's work isn't filling one's life, especially when this regards "art". What is about our time is a saddening drama where many artists find themselves crushed by the massive force of production/offer vs. a comparative smaller demand....These are factors to consider; but don't ever sacrifice art to them!!! It has always been more difficult to survive as an artist than to make a living out of one's art. It's a fact as old as the world! I can understand the impact of success and the red hot feeling of pride when your work is been selected for any purpose but this is only it; it's not why the pace started, not why inspiration happened or a particular work was completed. Few I must admit can stand the nastiness of being ignored. After all we have an E G O bigger than the universe and indeed we are it's center...Why are we more important than our mission? Did it ever occur to anyone to ask the question? Artists are a difficult breed and thank you lets not go in there!!! but I transgress... For some of us artist we fight on several front and at the risk of repeating myself: one MUST reveal to him/herself what is important before jumping in head first...What matters is as important to an artist as it is to anyboby capable of thinking clearly...besides all the rabbish society imposes on us and expect from us. Yes you see, we have the terrible task to be informed by ourselves first, rather than the outer world. Our gift of introspection and vision has to be respected by US first...Do I here a voice there?
05-15-2003, 09:33 PM
Sidney - You're right on all of these points. Art is difficult and demanding, and people who practice it have to have self confidence and be willing to keep going regardless of what others think. The questions and comments about “Art of our Time” have to do with individual viewpoints on just what each artist does.
I see from your posts that you are busy formulating your ideas, and probably are ready to have a maquette made. Randy gave you two good suggestions. Check with galleries and/or sculptors in the area, and also post your questions in the “ Community Help Center” forum. You might get good suggestions in both places. Good luck!
05-16-2003, 02:04 PM
It has been my experience that most artists are humble and quiet in obsurity. The ones who reside in ego tend to speak louder and longer and consequently give artists a bad name.
An artist is naturally curious and likes to take things apart and reassemble them to make a new sense of what we preceive to be reality.
To be curious about the corporate involvement in the world is not different than to be curious about the intricacies of a flower. Bother are equally worth exploring.
Certainly, if you bring up a topic about corporate corruption, you will touch on some narrow opinions, but we are very different people and can all discern for ourselves what is rambling bunk and what has interesting avenues of exploration.
If I don't like the topic, I will move on.
05-16-2003, 04:12 PM
Aurora, you are intelligent and intuitive as well. Your way is what you want it to be but from where I stand (speaking only for me, of course) there are galaxies of interesting thing out there to marvel about and to explore and to stimulate our curiosity...and there is so little time! I believe corporations and their like aren't my kind of flower. I am not sure "investigating" their moral code is much worth vs. the real miracle of the flower itself.
Thank you Fritchie for pointing out the info awaiting me. This topic we are talking about catched my attention as something I heard of long ago and till this day brings much concerns to artists.
05-20-2003, 12:01 PM
I agree with you wholeheartedly, however, if you don't keep the ugliness in front of you (along with the beauty), it will reek havoc behind you and eventually bite you on the ass or imprision you. Somebody has to be ornery enough to dig up the corruption so the masses can have the freedom. I personally would like to see discussions on corruption, disputes, unfairness and the like to open the lines of communication and supply a mandate for change.
But.....I'm the kind of person that loves to fix things and I see the art world in a state of despair and confusion. I believe it can be wonderful but we might have to slog through the mud to get there.
06-03-2003, 01:38 PM
Between the death of God, two world wars and a cold one the twentieth century seemed to engender a great deal of angst-ridden art. Now, after 9/11, (or before if you live outside of North America) terrorism threatens to continue the tradition.
Perhaps there is and will always be tormented artists - but not like tormented stock brokers. I can imagine a retired stock broker lamenting that he never had the guts to pursue his true vocation - sculpture. But how often does a sculptor regret that he/she never made a killing on Wall Street? Perhaps some do ...
There might be something ironically romantic - or trigically comic - about an artist lamenting his/her poverty or lack of contemporary validation. But that is mere self-indulgence that definitely springs from "ego" not "art". What ridiculous fool would pursue a career as an artist as a means of becoming wealthy? Might as well make the lottery your retirement strategy.
The honest torment of the artist comes out of his/her ability to "see". Without this "gift" he/she cannot create anything worthwhile. And there are a great deal of painful things to see in the world. But Denial is where ugliness dwells. Denial is the death of Truth and Truth is what a real artist pursues. This is what I mean by "seeing".
The Truth the real artist must face first is the fact that if they do not pursue their vocation, despite the likelihood of little material gain, they will live out the torment of the aforementioned stock broker.
The torment of both poverty and enlightenment are, in the end, preferrable because if the first kills you the second just might save you.
06-03-2003, 02:11 PM
Good points Georges, but I don't think it so much about liking and accepting your choices in life and the poverty that comes with it as it is about being mindful of what goes on around you.
The mass majority of artist persue their work for the love of it and I think too, that most have a realistic grasp that they may never become the Bernini's or Moore's of our time.
However, from my standpoint, much of the art world (as in most other worlds) is based on "who you know" and marketing. This is the way of capitalism and the world and I don't care to dispute that. COnsequently, if this practice isn't watched or challenged, it can become worse and the real and genuine talents and breakthroughs will be pushed down by those in power. That would be very sad.
Artists rarely have time to do the work and show the work, let alone challenge the decisions and keep abreast to the workings of 'the system'.
There should be acceptance, but one eye should always look up from time to time and questions the workings.
I don't mean to sound like I'm picking on you or anyone else. It seems that whenever someone speaks out and questions the present system of doing things, the common answer is to toss out and challenge the artists ego and then be told in some way to just accept.
If art was a religion, I feel like I'm in the back pew without a voice.
Am I alone in this feeling or do others feel censored too?
06-24-2003, 10:54 PM
(Another reply brought back from the dead with word-processor backup. This might not be exactly the original thread, but sort of fits the context. Georges had referenced his current task of categorizing artists in the ISC Portfolio for use with a search engine. Ararich had made an offhand comment about using talented versus untalented as categories.)
Araich is being a little frank here. That probably would eliminate about three-quarters of the contributors, and make both Georges and ISC quite unpopular. Why don’t you ask him to become an on-line curator?
Georges - This task is one defined by Linnaeus some four hundred years ago. In fact, there are computer programs which will organize multidimensional descriptors into related groups, and even tell you the minimum number of groups present. I’m sure you know this. It’s a basis of cladistics. The trick, as Linnaeus must have recognized, is to identify the significant descriptors (e. g., for leaves: size, general shape, veining, relative positioning on the stem, as in opposite or alternate, ...).
Applying this to sculpture, you would list materials (bronze, wood, steel, clay, fabric, ...), techniques (casting, fabrication, carving, overlay, ... ), methodology (handworking, machine execution, virtual, ...), and so on until you covered all the bases. But the trick, as you imply, is to find these categories and to define alternatives within each category. Linnaeus’ intuition was pretty good, given that he worked only with surface traits. Most of his classifications have held up to analysis at the level of genes, though there were some failures.
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