First Dog -- Feedback Appreciated

[rickb]

Hello Sculptors,

I am creating my first ever dog and would appreciate your feedback. He is part of a larger grouping / pioneer monument of a pioneer woman, child and chickens (later I may post for chicken-anatomy feedback :) ). I am particulary interested in anything that looks wrong anatomically.

Next week this is going to molds and then to scale-up, so any feedback this week would be expecially useful!

Please click on link to see more views: http://richardbecker.com/poway_art_center_temp/index.htm

Thank you,

RB

http://richardbecker.com/poway_art_center_temp/images/125_2527.jpg

[Tristan]

Looks pretty damned spot on to me. I went through the multiple angle thumbs and can't find anything needing any change. Really nice dog. the maquette for the whole group looks very nice too.

T

[fritchie]

Looks excellent to me, Rick, except that the neck looks a little thick in this view. I'm not sure whether I'd take a bit off the front or the back, though.

[rickb]

Fritichie, Tristan,

Thanks for looking. Hmm, I'll take a look at that neck, and its relation to the back and shoulders, maybe that is part of the problem.

Other comments appreciated...

[bluedogshuz]

Looks like the neck may be too long... I had lab retreivers, I'm assuming that is the breed. I like the dogs expression a lot

[bluedogshuz]

Looks like the neck may be too long... I had lab retreivers, I'm assuming that is the breed. I like the dogs expression a lot

[FireBeach]

Looks excellent to me, Rick, except that the neck looks a little thick in this view. I'm not sure whether I'd take a bit off the front or the back, though.

I think i would take a bir off the back

[Arnis]

I am impressed of the mother figure .But not of a dog figure.You are obvuisly better at human body that animals.My coment is more comman ,the shape is to rough up to now.Open the dog anatomy and track every detail and shape eslpesialy where they intersect.Olso proportion of the back leg.

[Blake]

Very nice piece Richard I like the position of the outstretched hand and the portrait looks very well done, you have a soft feminine effect that is most becoming. I wish I could give you some advise about the dog but I am unable to identify what is wrong with it, is it the anatomy or is it proportions. It appears to be the weak part of the work and that impression may be exaggerated because the figure and child are so strong.
Sorry I can't be more helpful.
Blake

[rickb]

Blake, Arnis, and others,

Thanks for the comments. I've spent years on the human figure and anatomy and I realize that I have tons to learn about animals (just spent all day yesterday with a rhode island red hen -- "Pippi"-- in my studio).

Since the first feedback, I did pull out the animal anatomy book and I made some changes. The neck was too thick, the shoulderblades too low/all wrong, some work on the elbows (?), back, etc.

I really do appreciate it. I really want this to be a very nice piece. I'll post some more pics later and

THanks, Please keep the feedback coming!

RB

http://richardbecker.com/poway_art_center_temp/index.htm

[Tristan]

My dog is a mutt, as many dogs are, and proportions from one section of her anatomy to another differ greatly from those of other dogs (she has a very long body with squat legs but large paws...).

Unless you are going for a specific breed, I think this piece has a great sence of life and continuity to it's form. Change what you want, but don't lose that.

T

[Pale Comparison]

Hi Rick B if you don't mind me asking, what kind of medium did you choose to create this work ?

This dog looks great as is some dogs have big necks some don't just like everybody else is different humans but if you decide to take a bit more off the neck I would go to bookstore or dog breed website to make sure you don't take to much off ........I really like how the dress looks on her body very nice

[JAZ]

Rick,
I've never owned a dog because I'm allergic to them, but I'd agree with Tristan. I think this dog looks like a mutt with a blend of traits from different breeds, which would be logical for the subject matter of your piece. Would this family really have a full breed dog? And, because the proportions seem not to match other people's ideas of the dogs they know, it looks like a specific mutt, which I think is a good thing.
Relax. That's the only thing missing. Your work is a pleasure to look at and your work ethic admirable.
JAZ

[Ameenah]

Hello Rick,
I agree with Tristan & Jaz. I think the piece is very strong .
Ameenah

[rickb]

Thanks for all the thoughtful comments so far. I guess I want to do two things some of you have mentioned -- 1. fix anything (that I can) that would really detract from the piece and 2. of course, have the dog pleasantly work into the piece overall. This being my first public commission, and in my town, I would really like to be proud of it. So I really appreciate the expert critiques and impressions.

LostNYC -- I'll check out the toe arch!

PK -- re the medium, it will be bronze, about 7ft tall total when I'm done. The medium was chosen by the client -- an outdoor sculpture for Poway, CA's new art center.

Thanks again, and tomorrow I'll post some shots of the latest, for those not completely bored, now featuring chickens and chicks :eek: .

[JAZ]

Rick,
It's certainly not boring. This type of discussion is why we log on!
JAZ

[rickb]

Jaz, that's nice to hear.
After looking at these photos, there is still a lot of work left, the dog is not right yet, her neck, etccccccc. Does anyone else find it useful to critique your own work in photos and thru mirrors?
Anyway, round two. Feedback really appreciated!
http://www.richardbecker.com/temp_pac2/index.htm
http://www.richardbecker.com/temp_pac2/images/pac0057_r1.jpg

Rick

[Pale Comparison]

is that clay you are using or wed , chavant ....just curious

[rickb]

is that clay you are using or wed , chavant ....just curious

Hi,

This is JFMacaughin (sp?) medium and hard oil-based clay (ab220/5?) . I really like the color and it moves ok. Its sticky and the hard is not very hard (driving me nuts on small details, concerns about details getting wiped prior/during mold-making).
I mostly use chavant NSP -- they have really good color consistency between lots and hardnesses. I found this to be an issue with JFmac. The Chavant moves well and not as sticky. It flows well when heated so you can get pretty expressive strokes. I've heard good things about the chavant lebeau touche, but never tried it.

I love Wed clay for works that dont have a lot of fine detail and for portraits. You can be so physical with the clay in the beginning, throwing, pushing large volumes. Then later as it starts to firm up, you can add in some detail. If it wasnt for the mess, the detail issue, keeping it wet in the studio, and the silicosis, I'd do more in wed.

[Pale Comparison]

I was thinking of making a portrait for my next project but after what you said about the WED I am going to stick with the chavant.......even though that SP macughin stuff your using(which loooks like WED) is giving you some really good results.

Thanks,

[fritchie]

Beautiful piece, Rick. Thanks for posting. I especially love the mother's face, and, though I didn't look at many views, the small child seems very well-done also. I agree that the dog and chicks/chicken add a lot to the piece.

Please keep these images coming!

[rickb]

PC, I'm not sure what I said about Wed that steered you to an oil-based clay, but best of luck with the portrait.

Fritichie, thanks for the comments. assuming all goes well, friday it will be "done enough", approved and ready to start molds. Back I go....

Rick

[Pale Comparison]

You mentioned the dreaded Silicosis .......I

[rickb]

Here is the latest: "the pioneers." Lots of images for foundry and mold quotes... the dog was a no-show unfortunately...I did a bit more with the hair and lots of details. Your previous feedback was very useful, any new feedback still welcomed.

http://richardbecker.com/temp_pac2/Pioneers%20est/target30.html
RB

http://richardbecker.com/temp_pac2/Pioneers%20est/images/126_2696.jpg

[Pale Comparison]

hey Rick B how much are you going to pay the foundry to bronze this piece if you don't mind me asking

[rickb]

Hi PC,
That's tbd. I'm starting to get firm quotes now.

[Pale Comparison]

The prices vary greatly from one foundry to the next ........ how do you know the person you choose is not going to mess things up after all that work ..... i guess this is a chance you have to take

Are there any guidleines you go by when choosing a foundry ?

[rickb]

The prices vary greatly from one foundry to the next ........ how do you know the person you choose is not going to mess things up after all that work ..... i guess this is a chance you have to take

Are there any guidleines you go by when choosing a foundry ?

Good questions. Well, first off I think it helps to know the process as much as practical. This helps you judge foundries. It also helps you realize how much can and does go wrong throughout the process (a lot!) so you can better learn to just deal with it and/or set guidelines with the foundries (e.g. never retouch critical facial features, or fingers, etc in wax or metal, w/o approval). THey probably still retouch these things do but at least I feel better :). To get educated I took a foundry and patina class at a local college.
But overall, I look at the work they do, talk to artists that use them and make sure other artists are reasonably satisfied with the things that are important to me. I would never go on cost alone without this investigation.
I hope this helps.

[Pale Comparison]

It does because I would like to take one of my works to a foundry but I am not sure on how to proceed without getting burned by a screw-up or worse a crook ...these guys are pretty much strangers ...and they give you a quote but once you drop your piece there everything is pretty much in their hands ......they could ruin it or squeez a few more hundred off my card

I am not sure how it is on your side of the tracks but foundries are few and far between here in Ottawa actually there are none ......

[rickb]

Well, Here is the final clay of the maquette. Sunday I received the final client approval and the work is now at the mold-makers. From this I will make a pattern to start the scale-up to about 80" tall. I will also make some bronzes in this size.

Its odd after about 6 months in the studio to not see them there. Its also a bit unnerving to know that such a soft plastilene piece is being dismantled and molded in this hot weather.

Anyway, thanks again for all the feedback!

Richard
http://www.richardbecker.com

http://richardbecker.com/temp_pac2/The%20Pioneers%20--%20maquettes/images/127_2783_r1.jpg

[grayem]

Hi,
I love the woman in the picture, she's beautiful.
THe dog: I think the hind end abit small overalll. I think the hind legs are very small, and the pelvis seems to shrink into the little legs. However, mutts can look that way.

[didlems]

I have always admired Richard's work,i;m still at first base!
My peices are all one off's that I have fired in my kiln as I have not yet moved onto mass reproduction......i am inspired by this great community of sculptors...i'm new here.http://thought.jpg(194)KB)
didlems

[rickb]

Didlems,

Thanks for the nice comments and welcome. You are right, this is a great site to learn and share. You said you are firing pieces, please share if your are so inclined.


Here's a pic of my first attempt at a human face, 9 yrs ago:
http://www.richardbecker.com/LowResTour/images/first%20piece%201996%20HPIM0156.jpg

RB

http://www.richardbecker.com

[didlems]

Hello Richard,
if the aptitude is there,its then practice practice practice !!
It would be wonderful to spend my days sculpting, it has now become a loving theraputic hobby where my sculptures surround me like old friends !
To be honest,I barley sculpt now,but that doesn't take away my enthusisam and sheer joy from seeing the curves,folds and features of other people's work of the human form,its truley wonderful.
didlems.

[bluedogshuz]

Hey Rick
What a beautiful composition. And Her, well shes what I wanted to marry!! Great work

[rickb]

Hi,
I thought you might like to see how this is progressing.
Here is the 7 foot tall (213cm?) version in progress. I had a foam armature digitally roughed-out from the 27inch maquette. The last few months I've been carving the foam (a very nice carving material, but quite messy) and resculpting the surface in clay.

I hope to have it ready for the foundry in another month.

Cheers,

RB
http://www.richardbecker.com/

[daaub]

Wow!!!

This is a beautiful work.

I am just curious, what is the price range to have a bronze made in this large scale? Ball park range anyway.. How much was it to have the 7 foot foam armature made?

Also, do you have any close up photos of the eyes that you could post?

Thanks

[JAZ]

Congratulations Richard. The city will be very happy with the finished product. I'd like to add to Daaub's list of questions. Do you want to say who did the digital work for you? And perhaps how much that aspect cost? Did you need to do more than simply provide the original?
JAZ

[rickb]

Hi,

Re the foam armature, it was not cheap. To have it scanned and the foam machined was about $9k (1-2K less if you use a cheaper material). I used cyberfx in burbank, CA (Hollywood area www.cyberfx.com -- they have some photos of the process on their site). Dick Cavdek is the contact and has been doing this for over 10 years I think. They have a good reputation and I was pleased with all the interactions. It was also very cool to see foam heads and bodies of actors around -- used for wardrobe and makeup.

I do wonder if they cut some corners, pun intended, to speed the machining time. There were several places that really lost all the detail where I didnt think it was necessary (notice the child's foot and lack of toes in the previous post). But, the foam carves nicely ...

What I provided them was a plaster cast of the piece, completely assembled. I actually used polyurethane casts for the fragile details like the arms/fingers and epoxied them onto the plaster.
We confirmed the exact scale and discussed where and how to chop it up if needed to get good views (they ended up removing the dog after the initial scan to get more detail). We also agreed where to section the final piece so I could transport it easier and work with it better in the studio.

About 8 weeks later, I had the armature.


RB

[Pale Comparison]

Excellent work Thanks for sharing the process !